A110 Restoration
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Thread: A110 Restoration

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default A110 Restoration

    Installed a new tandem master cylinder in the A110 recently and started bleeding the brakes. It previously had a new single master cylinder which fed both the rear and front brakes and worked fine. With the new tandem master cylinder, the rears bleed up, including the hydraulic handbrake, but cannot get the fronts to bleed up. The connections to the master cylinder, brake reservoirs and new brake lines, are as tight as a drum. All the fronts want to do is suck up the brake fluid in the single man do it yourself kit rather than feed brake fluid into the kit. I am starting to think that the new master cylinder, obtained from Simons Auto, is defective. Any one have any thoughts before I rip it out and have it checked? Taking it out and disconnecting all the brake lines and reservoirs is going to be an absolute pain in the you know where!

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Baz, I didn't understand the question... are you saying the front brakes won't bleed, as in an airlock..?

    If that's the case you need to get a large syringe, the larger the better, and attach it to the bleed nipple via some 5mm clear hose and perform a suck, pinch, and suck routine several times so the air can be removed from the caliper and line this way and it will draw the fluid out with it. It will take 6-10 goes but it should work.
    Last edited by 59 Floride; 21st October 2013 at 09:31 PM.

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    What I am saying is that as you push the brake pedal you expect it to push brake fluid thru the lines along with air bubbles which eventually get eliminated the more you push and bleed. Happened with the rears but not the fronts. I'll try your solution and see if it works - I have a large syringe obtained a while ago from the vet store - I think they were for horses.Hopefully it will work. Thanks for the suggestion.

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    I have the same problem with my Floride (R10) disc brakes whenever I tinker with them and I have pulled the master cylinder out several times and there's nothing wrong with it, but the syringe method works a treat every time. Having said all that I still don't know why they get an air lock.

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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    I pressure bleed most things now by having fitted a mag wheel valve fitting to a standard cap and applying 12psi pressure from a regulated supply, or at a pinch a bike pump. I expect you do know about the dot on the caliper piston lining up with the bleed nipple, otherwise bleeding can be difficult as air will be held inside the piston assembly.
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    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    Hi
    I always bench bleed new master cylinder before installation

    Here is one way

    Master Cylinder Bleeding - How To Bench Bleed Your Master Cylinder - Remove Air Bubbles

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    I have found it impossible to bleed the brakes on my Alpine without using some sort of pressure bleeding device,
    This could be mainly due to the bleeding nipples being higher than the master cylinder.
    If you've got too much traction, you haven't got enough horse power ...




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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    I had the same problem years ago when I was supplied new seals in metric dimensions instead of imperial dimensions. The seals,when fitted to the piston, was stretched a fraction to big and that caused the deck of the seal to seal against the cylinder wall. That will give you the pump and then suck action. I removed the seal and turned the recess of the piston a fraction smaller so that the seal sits a little deeperin the piston and only the lip of the seal that is protruding touches the walls of the cylinder and then it can pump the fluid out and on the back stroke feed a new supply of brake fluid to pump on the next stroke.

    If you cant do it by pressure bleeding or sucking this will most probably be the cause. My concern is that it is on a new master as you said.

    Regards
    Frans
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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Surely swapping a single master cylinder for a dual has complicated things?
    I wouldn't have thought it was as simple as that. But WWIK ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    I had the same problem years ago when I was supplied new seals in metric dimensions instead of imperial dimensions. The seals,when fitted to the piston, was stretched a fraction to big and that caused the deck of the seal to seal against the cylinder wall. That will give you the pump and then suck action. I removed the seal and turned the recess of the piston a fraction smaller so that the seal sits a little deeperin the piston and only the lip of the seal that is protruding touches the walls of the cylinder and then it can pump the fluid out and on the back stroke feed a new supply of brake fluid to pump on the next stroke.

    If you cant do it by pressure bleeding or sucking this will most probably be the cause. My concern is that it is on a new master as you said.

    Regards
    Frans
    I thought it might be something like that because I only encountered the problem after fitting a new master cylinder kit.

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    Thanks everyone for your advice. Tried bleeding the brakes yet again with no success including using the syringe method but not Alan's method as I have no spare reservoir caps. Decided I will flat top it to a brake specialist and they can fix it as I will want to have a new alternator wired in at a next door shop at the same time. In the meantime, will see what is available on the internet as a one man tool to pressure bleed the brakes the next time - probably when I get round to installing a big brake system - the last real job I need to do on the car. Any suggestions on a good pressure bleed system that can be done at home by one person noting Alan's is one suggestion.

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    All booked in for next Monday to have the brakes bled, alternator that came with the R8G motor hooked up (the wiring is different to what was on the car) and to tune the Webers. I think the bleeding of the brakes is a bit more difficult with the do it yourself method as I also installed an hydraulic handbrake (which also has a cable attachment to also work the rear brakes). Will still look for a do it yourself pressure bleeder so will appreciate any suggestions of any that work.

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    Brand new master cylinder from Simon Auto turned out to be defective. ACT Brakes seeing if it can be fixed. In the meantime, one of the glass reservoirs has broken, I guess due to the attempt to pressure bleed the system. Now I am after a replacement if anyone has one. Same as used in a R8/10. Also posted in parts wanted.

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    ACT BRakes have fixed the problem. Turned holes feeding fluid into the master cylinder needed to be enlarged slightly. Bench tested and installed. Now have brakes front and back. The guys were very helpful and one of them had worked on Renaults before. Later on, after I have got the car up and running (not far now) will be looking at installing a big brake kit front and back. Perhaps a job during summer. Will be looking at getting big brake kits from Mecaparts or Simons auto. Any other suggestions?

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    Was this car at Gibbs at some point in the last few days?
    Last edited by Selekta; 6th November 2013 at 02:42 PM.

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    Yep. Getting the alternator wired in with a new voltage regulator. Rob did the work. Also ACT Brakes next door to Rob did the brake pressure bleeding. Now back home and sorting out a few other things like the gear linkage to the 5 speed box. At the moment, can only get 1st, 2nd and reverse. Might have to put in a spacer plate to ensure the gear shift clears the plumbing from the rear to the front rad.

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    Now that I have succeeded in learning how to post photos on aussiefrogs, thought I should post some of my A110.

    A110 Restoration-img_0064.jpgA110 Restoration-img_0062.jpgA110 Restoration-img_0061.jpgA110 Restoration-img_0058.jpg
    J-man likes this.

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    Restoration complete subject to a shakedown drive tomorrow. Here's a photo of the business end. Depending how the brakes go (standard R8/10 system with new rotors and pads and new tandem master cylinder), will look at installing a big brake package. I know Frans has built his own, but I do not have the same engineering expertise or equipment, so will be looking at buying a bolt on package from Mecaparts or Simons Auto. Anyone (Col?) used one of these packages?

    A110 Restoration-img_0090.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    Now that I have succeeded in learning how to post photos on aussiefrogs, thought I should post some of my A110.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wow, sexier than your wife!
    KB


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    That's sexier than anyones wife well done Bazz, jealous here.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    Restoration complete subject to a shakedown drive tomorrow. Here's a photo of the business end. Depending how the brakes go (standard R8/10 system with new rotors and pads and new tandem master cylinder), will look at installing a big brake package. I know Frans has built his own, but I do not have the same engineering expertise or equipment, so will be looking at buying a bolt on package from Mecaparts or Simons Auto. Anyone (Col?) used one of these packages?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Bazzamac, I have copied the Mecaparts big brakes package. It should be identical to my build. (front only).
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

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    Have you met my wife, KB - you have me worried!

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    I don't believe Dot's had the pleasure Bazz.

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  24. #24
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    Restoration complete subject to a shakedown drive tomorrow. Here's a photo of the business end. Depending how the brakes go (standard R8/10 system with new rotors and pads and new tandem master cylinder), will look at installing a big brake package. I know Frans has built his own, but I do not have the same engineering expertise or equipment, so will be looking at buying a bolt on package from Mecaparts or Simons Auto. Anyone (Col?) used one of these packages?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi Bazza

    I have the parts for my Gros Frein, it is similar to what Frans has done.

    By the way your A110 looks great.
    Regards Col

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    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  25. #25
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    Thanks Col. Went for s test run last Saturday and all was fine (no leaks), engine and 5 speed box great but two issues - one was a momentary stop like fuel starvation (did have low fuel levels but happened again later on a full tank and suspect blockage in the fuel pickup or perhaps the pump does not have a good flow rate - is a Facet like Rob Sealey's and is rated up to 4.5psi) and the other issue is the brakes felt soft with little hard peddle so will be looking at refurbishing the existing callipers or going with a big brake package. Which one did you end up getting and what was the source?

    Cheers

    bazzamac

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