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Thread: 74 DSpecial Renewal

  1. #301
    Fellow Frogger! Vincenzo's Avatar
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    Where did you get the dash instrument silvering decals from? I need some...

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    DS23 Pallas BVM Vert Argente - in ground up restoration, soon to be BVH.
    DSpecial 4speed Beige Vanneau, previous ; XM 2.0, maroon, my first.
    And a variety of the usual crapboxes before seeing the light. Except my Mini Cooper with the 3.4 cam and twin webers - that wasn't a POS.

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  2. #302
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    There was a post about this not long ago.

    Tip for the silver lining on DS dashboard

    The stickers come from Greg, PM him for details.
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  3. #303
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    Doors back on, slight problem though, having painted the boot, rear panels and bonnet, wings two years ago new batch of paint, wait for it...didn't match. What? I gave you guys the correct code etc. Not to worry, a quick 800 sand and another coat to rectify previous efforts.
    New bumper as someone banged my nice one from Phillipe and you can't beat those stainless steel babies out. Frustrated another bumper has gone to the dogs, these pieces are prime targets and are becoming rarer.

    74 DSpecial Renewal-img_5386.jpg74 DSpecial Renewal-img_5387.jpg74 DSpecial Renewal-img_5381.jpg
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  4. #304
    Tadpole
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    Come on mate 4 months since last update??? Surely you must be close to the finish line.......
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  5. #305
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bounge View Post
    Come on mate 4 months since last update??? Surely you must be close to the finish line.......
    Ease up a little, Bounge. A decent restoration takes time and patience. That, and it's like I tell my customers- real life has a funny way of interrupting the fun stuff.
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    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Ease up a little, Bounge. A decent restoration takes time and patience. That, and it's like I tell my customers- real life has a funny way of interrupting the fun stuff.
    Is that really you Bill? Welcome back

    Cheers
    Chris
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    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  7. #307
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Is that really you Bill? Welcome back

    Cheers
    Chris
    Yah, is me. I needed some time off for med stuff, all of a sudden it's a year and a half later. Thanks for the greetings. Email or PM me, we can catch up.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  8. #308
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    The MAN is back, whoahoo! Guess what Bill? I have a damn electrical problem. I will compose a post describing the issue which relates to a new loom and a switch and a wiper motor. Stay tuned!

    oh yes and btw you blaggards the damn car is nearly ready for the road but some minor frustrating niggles have sent me into a spin over the summer and I have been bashing my head trying to sort, will reveal the progress shortly as well. Bloody Citrons!
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  9. #309
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    The MAN is back, whoahoo! Guess what Bill? I have a damn electrical problem. I will compose a post describing the issue which relates to a new loom and a switch and a wiper motor. Stay tuned!

    oh yes and btw you blaggards the damn car is nearly ready for the road but some minor frustrating niggles have sent me into a spin over the summer and I have been bashing my head trying to sort, will reveal the progress shortly as well. Bloody Citrons!
    Eh, it's a restoration. They all do that. Write up your post when you can, we'll sort through the problem.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Is that really you Bill? Welcome back Cheers Chris
    My thoughts exactly!!!
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    JohnW

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  11. #311
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    Ok. Here is the problem.
    Using new loom that has 5 wires with old motor that has 3 wires, black, red blue, (power and 2 speed yes?)(and a grey earth that screws to the bulkhead).
    Using a LHD new Gelbon switch with slightly different configuration. The Switch connections match the new loom. 4 wires off switch plus a single bullet connection on switch for the squirter.
    With ignition on the wiper motor is eventually getting hot, hotter whilst running, and finally blows the red tabbed fuse opposite side.
    I was thinking of tearing the tape off the loom and tracing what does what and reinstall the 'original' switch (even though I still will only have one wire for pin for washer (why are there two on original?)
    I understand a 1974 DSpecial had three connections for the wiper but all the wiring diagrams I've looked at have 5. There are motors that have 4 separate connections for those wires but not a DSpecial. It seems from one diagram there's constant power separate to the switch (black wire) but the yellow from main loom to switch then acts to allow the power from black. So any suggestions on plan of attack dear readers? I thought about getting a 4 pin motor but there's nothing wrong with this one ( I assume!) last photo motor with 4 pin connection.

    74 DSpecial Renewal-wiper_2.jpg74 DSpecial Renewal-wiper_1.jpg74 DSpecial Renewal-wiper_3.jpg74 DSpecial Renewal-wiper_4.jpg74 DSpecial Renewal-48466929-3697-47a7-95e6-3496a7a41811.jpg74 DSpecial Renewal-de9f78c2-7e0a-4a71-a3ee-c4707f7c1b97.jpg
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 7th February 2018 at 09:45 PM.

  12. #312
    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    If I understand the issue correctly the problem is your using a LHD switch.
    They are wired completely differently to a RHD switch, and are not compatible, although I can't tell you how. IIRC I had similar issues when I did what you did many years ago.
    I just removed the new stalk and knob from a NOS LHD switch and glued it into the RHD switch - so no wiring issues.
    In the 5 wires on the engine side - are 2 for the washer unit and 3 for the wiper motor.
    Who did the harness...?
    Cheers,
    Mark...
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  13. #313
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    Hi Mark, its a Christian Fahrig effort, Oldtimer Electrique. There are two separate wires for washer pump. This loom has been made to accomodate a 4 pin motor like the last photo. It’ll run mine but from the diagram there is a power feed issue somewhere to do with the yellow brown sleeve spade terminal and the grey black sleeve wire not getting a chance to do their thing on the motor. It’ll run with the black sleeve grey wire and the blue and red giving 2 speed but whatever the yellow is doing/not doing is naughty. I assume again that the white wire is intermittent switch.

    I also assumed from the last photo that rhe yellow wire with brown sleeve and female spade connection was actually an earth to the body of the motor. Confused and generally electrically stupid! ha ha. Help!
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 7th February 2018 at 01:07 AM.

  14. #314
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Ok. Here is the problem.
    Using new loom that has 5 wires with old motor that has 3 wires, black, red blue, (power and 2 speed yes?)(and a grey earth that screws to the bulkhead).
    Using a LHD new Seima switch with slightly different configuration. The Switch connections match the new loom. 4 wires off switch plus a single bullet connection on switch for the squirter.
    With ignition on the wiper motor is eventually getting hot, hotter whilst running, and finally blows the red tabbed fuse opposite side.
    I was thinking of tearing the tape off the loom and tracing what does what and reinstall the 'original' switch (even though I still will only have one wire for pin for washer (why are there two on original?)
    I understand a 1974 DSpecial had three connections for the wiper but all the wiring diagrams I've looked at have 5. There are motors that have 4 separate connections for those wires but not a DSpecial. It seems from one diagram there's constant power separate to the switch (black wire) but the yellow from main loom to switch then acts to allow the power from black. So any suggestions on plan of attack dear readers? I thought about getting a 4 pin motor but there's nothing wrong with this one ( I assume!) last photo motor with 4 pin connection.

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    OK. Let's try this without forming a mushroom cloud over your carefully restored D!

    First thing to remember is under the hood of a D, unless it's noted otherwise, black is the standard color for all wires. You will usually go according to sleeve color.

    Having said that, do you have your original switch? The LHD switches have a power in (yellow wire/black sleeve) a park function (white wire), low speed (blue wire) and a high speed (red wire). There is also a mauve (pink/purple) wire which is + for the washer pump.

    For LHD wiper motors, you have 4 connections plus a separate external ground (which MUST be made!!). There is a black sleeved black wire which comes from the ignition switch by way of the red fuse (not from the wiper switch), and then red->red, blue->blue, and white->white. For the washer, there is only one connection: a red sleeved black wire, giving power. There may be a brown sleeved wire paired with this, giving pump ground. This ground wire has no connection to the wiper switch.

    Now that I'm staring blankly at it, your switch- the RHD one- the two pins on the switch might be power in/power out for the washer. Also- you don't know where that badly spliced fuseholder goes? Lastly- did you have a park function (the wipers automatically go to a rest position when shut off at the switch)? If you didn't, that black wire is likely the power direct out to the motor, rather than a battery source, like the LHD cars.

    As to the blowing fuses, you're pulling a rather large amount of amperage somewhere along the line. Remember that the white wire is essentially a switched ground path. You'll want the red, the black, and the blue from the switch, guessing that you don't have a park function.
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  15. #315
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    Hi Bill, the dismantled switch in the photo with the patched on fuse was in the car when I started “renewing”. It could be off a GS though!
    My guess is without dismantling the two bullet pins are washer and an earth. Fuse holder goes to? I have to get down to the shed tomorrow and see if I can trace it back on the now mangled original loom. I added a spade connection to the bulkhead so the yellow wire with brown sleeve can go onto it and the grey existing earth wire that screws onto bulkhead. The yellow is definitely an earth. My big concern is the motor is getting pretty hot when running, as for the white wire these motors don’t have the extra terminal for them.

  16. #316
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Steven, you have a multimeter or a voltmeter, yes? We might have to do a little prodding to figure out your power draw, and what does what on your switch.

    Anybody else out there, would you have a late D wiper switch for RHD that I can reference from?
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  17. #317
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    Cool Bill I’m going to run the meter over it tomorrow, Cheers

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post

    Anybody else out there, would you have a late D wiper switch for RHD that I can reference from?
    Yep, I have a RHD and LHD switch here. . . let me know what you need pics, wire colours etc.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  19. #319
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Yep, I have a RHD and LHD switch here. . . let me know what you need pics, wire colours etc.

    Cheers
    Chris
    Excellence! RHD please, Chris. I'm beginning to suspect Steven has the wrong switch. Basically I just need to know if it electrically mirrors a LHD switch. If it does, I then need to figure out why his wiper motor doesn't connect as it should.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  20. #320
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    OK, our Aus supplied RHD switch differs from the RHD wiring diagram I have - only 3 wires from the multi plug.

    Looking at the pins with the tang to your left we have Blue top left/Black top right/ Red bottom right/ blank bottom left (note no white)

    I'll have a look at the binnacle loom in the car in the morning, and the connections at the wiper motor.

    Edit: Plus two pins for washer motor

    Cheers
    Chris
    forumnoreason likes this.
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  21. #321
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    Great. .... Mr Expert made me a loom which has so far proved to be a PITA!

    when all solved I will write to him detailing the anomalies, he charged me VAT too which I still smart from.

  22. #322
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    Welcome back Bill!

  23. #323
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Great. .... Mr Expert made me a loom which has so far proved to be a PITA!

    when all solved I will write to him detailing the anomalies, he charged me VAT too which I still smart from.
    Hey! I had nothing to do with that. Sorta what I expected- good on the Euro stuff, sketchy on the export cars. Does the harness at least fit?

    Edit: Do you still have the original loom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    Welcome back Bill!
    Thanks, Budge

    And before I forget my manners, thank you, John W.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  24. #324
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    My guess is as Mark states and Bill is hinting the problem is essentially in the switch, the 3 terminal motors have a direct power with auto stop, the switch I have is telling the motor it is on without the park (white) connection, so I just have to swap the switch and use the direct power through the switch and the two speed red/blue wires. Ideally remove the yellow earth and white park function. Will be testing theory this arvo hopefully.

  25. #325
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    Yep its the switch. put the old 3 wire back on. I’m only getting one speed though which is weird because it comes straight off the switch ( bung connections inside switch perhaps) and had to add power (as you pointed out Bill!) from the battery to 2 bullet/pins for washer pump. So that will need to find a join on ignition somewhere. Hmmm

    Would love to see what RHD switch looks like Chris to make comparison, and if yours has the add on later fuse and where to-

    Cheers
    Steven
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 8th February 2018 at 09:35 PM.

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