One should not brag, Murphy again. Advice needed
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  1. #1
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    Icon10 One should not brag, Murphy again. Advice needed

    Ok, so I am a proud owner of a 2005 Megane, it has been rock solid since I purchased the car a couple of months back. So was out a couple nights ago telling mates friends and anyone who would listen how great my car was. Well as per usual in car ownership that guy Murphy must have been listening.

    Started it yesterday and it was hard to start, constant turn over then finally start. It ran for about 45 second then nothing. Its driveable just there is nearly no power under the throttle and the exhaust gasses are very strong. Have had a diag over the computer and its not throwing any codes. Has me and my normal mechanic stumped at this point.

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    We replaced the plugs this morning and they had all been running hot, very light color on the tips. Im wondering if it could be a clogged fuel filter or even an nonperforming pump.

    So with all the great knowledge on this site wondering if anyone else has run into the issue, or if you guys have any suggestions as to how to go about fixing this issue

    Thanking everyone in advance

  2. #2
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    Has your mechanic done a fuel pressure check? Has he checked the amp draw of the fuel pump? If it draws too many amps (check manual but i think about 5A is normal) the fuel filter is not flowing freely.
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
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    Collapsed catalytic convertor, or blocked exhaust.

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    Will bring both those up when I see him tomorrow. We both thought that it would throw some kind of error, with the way it was acting but it hasn't. So thanks for the ideas.

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    Another symptom is increase in temperature or even over heating. Not sure about modern cars but you can measure the exhaust pressure at the manifold. For example through the oxygen sensor hole or else drill a small hole in the engine pipe and weld up after the test. Pressure at idle is about 1.5 PSI and shouldn't increase while revs are not changed. 4 psi at 2000 rpm and 8 psi at about 4000 rpm. Most important the pressure should never increase if the RPM is steady. Not trying to teach grandma how to suck eggs but thought the info interesting. Just had a similar problem. But before I found it I changed everything electrical and even the carbys.

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    Assuming it has separate coils, try pulling the low tension plug off each in turn, to see if the idle gets worse.

    To go from good to bad suddenly (assuming valve timing unchanged) suggests an ignition failure. Generally this will bring up an antipollution fault, though.

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    Did the plug off thing this afternoon made no difference. There has been no change to the car at all other than the plugs this morning. Mechanic said if it was an ignition issue ie one of the coils it should have thrown a code. There was nothing on the computer when we checked this morning. As I said it came on all of a sudden. If you give the throttle a quick jab there is a delay in response, the needle will go up then drop to a near stall and recover. But only after the car has been driven. On a start and idol it will simply rev then stall out.

    I will print everything you guys suggest up and take the car in tomorrow for some beer o'clock work. Handy to have a mechanic like that.

    Thanks again to everyone, your help and input is very much appreciated

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    Update, we changed the fuel filter, it wasnt bad, made no difference at all. Local Renault dealer thinks it to do with the key fob and the security, but I am unsure of how this would cause the breakdown at low rpm. Looking more and more like a trip to the dealer...

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    Booked for the 2nd at renault dealer, wish me luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmanau View Post
    Booked for the 2nd at renault dealer, wish me luck.
    My money is on the cat
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    Does the cat have to be replaced with an original or can you go after market, ie a normal looking one ?

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    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    Default One should not brag, Murphy again. Advice needed

    Go aftermarket as factory will be cost of a small investment property. Ring an exhaust place for their a/m suggestion cheers.

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    Will do, find out who the mechanic recommends. Wanted to do a custom pipe at some point anyway. Again thanks to every one for the suggestions.

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    Default One should not brag, Murphy again. Advice needed

    A partially failed coil (weak spark) in most cases won't throw a code. Did car start running rough after filling it with fuel?
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    Been had the exhaust looked at, they cat the pipe and checked inside all was ok no breakdown visible. So that rules out the Cat being the issue. I grabbed a spare set of coils we had here and changed them over thinking it could be coil related but no luck. Its looking more and more like a computer fault was reading online the no idol and the stalling and miss fire could be the computer, shame I dont have a spare to try it with before it goes to the dealer.. Its booked in on the 3rd with the dealer I dont suppose there is much more I can do till then. Anyone else with suggestions.

    As per fuel yes I did fill up but we have dumped that fuel and replaced with fresh no change noted.

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    These are the same symptons that I had with my vehicle which turned out to be a faulty MAF sensor.
    I'm not familiar with Meganes but a lot of fuel injected cars have either a MAF or MAP sensor to measure air flow to the motor.
    Mine has a Bosch system and the sensor is located in the tube between the air cleaner and throttle butterfly.
    Luckily when it went faulty I was close to home but it barely made it up the small incline to my carport, however when I disconnected the plug to the sensor it went into limp home mode and would start and run but at reduced power....no codes were registered.
    Could also be a faulty fuel pump, as with a lot of cars when the ignition is turned on before starting you should hear the pump pressurise the system and there is sometimes a Schrader valve near the injectors to measure the fuel pump pressure. If you have such a valve you could place a rag over it and depress the pin and see if fuel squirts from it.
    Also check the TDC sensor if your motor has one.
    The sensor is located on the top of the bell housing. It is a small black cylinder with a little metal point on the end and has a banana shaped metal bracket with the sensor attached.
    Remove sensor and wipe with some contact cleaner to see if this rectifies the fault.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NOrcxaxoZY

    Valvster

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    Does the diagnostics the car plugged into show real time sensor info???

    If so, you expect that whoever was driving the diagnostic machine would have checked all the sensors were within range.
    That would include checking the MAP sensor was reading 100ish kPa with the ignition on but no engine running, and 40kPa or so at idle. (I dont think renault use MAF).
    In absence of the diagnostics, check the MAP sensor vacuum line, it will be plugged into the inlet plenum somewhere and then into the map sensor, which on the older efi renaults is in the ECU housing.

    Again, if the diagnostics shows real time sensor info, a quick check of the o2 sensor would not hurt.
    I dont know the newer renault injection programme, but I'm amazed that if the car runs like shite and the exhaust stinks, the o2 sensor has not thrown up an error...Anti polution fault or something similar. I'm not saying the o2 sensor is your problem, but I'd check it anyway.

    Jo

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    Im at the point now that I either get my own ECU reader and give that a go or wait for the dealer on the third. The mechanics computer could not deliver real time information, just the basic stuff. Not sure if thats the unit he has or if it is a ECU issues. Sat down with the partner last night and decided that we would not do anything else now until its been to see the dealer. It seems we are chasing our tails so to speak. I am awaiting an answer with held breath, because I have a feeling its either going to be a big issue, ie ECU or something small and simple.

    Either way I am still a couple weeks from being able to get it fixed. Typical dealer, they are worse to get to see than a doctor, and they charge like one also. They charge $268.00 for the first two hours of diagnostics and thats the minimum charge. As for replacement parts, I highly doubt I will be buying any from them..

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    It's known with some brands of ECU that a coil failure can induce ECU damage. I think it's Siemens, but could be Sagem. Not sure if this applies to Renault, but certainly can impact on other French marques.

    I personally think a lot of mechanics get stitched up on diagnostic tools. The gear comes in fancier cases than Aliexpress pirate items, costs a stack more, and often does less!

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmanau View Post
    Im at the point now that I either get my own ECU reader and give that a go ......
    Brilliant idea!!.
    Grab some online manuals too, and ask here to fill in the gaps...
    Jo

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    Just a side note. As of the same day the problem appeared my electric windows are playing up, all switches all windows. Will press down it will move maybe 10 mm and then stop, press again another 10mm. Im leaning more and more to an ECU issue here or something major with the electrics. Also today when it stalled the stop light illuminated and there was a audible beep from the system. every other time it has not done that.

    Been reading a bit about the ECU failures on this model and although I cannot confirm this, they mention a miss fire on two cylinders. This could explain the stalling without error that I am getting. Could also explain why it is drivable at rpm but will stall if let idle below 1200 rpm. Holding the throttle down keeps is ticking over. Having said that you can feel a miss fire in the engine, hence my comments about the ECU.

    Anyone else with some ideas would be great. Have found a company in the UK that can reco my current ecu and give unlimited km warranty on it. 5 day turn around plus postage.

    I can tell you will get to the bottom of this one way or another. I genuinely like the car a lot, its great to drive. Just a shame its now been off the road for 2 weeks and will be another 2 at a minimum. But I suppose my last car wasn't much better lol

    thanks again for your input guys much appreciated.

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    Those issues are BSI (or whatever Renault may call it) related. With the motor running, check your charging voltage at the battery terminals and for giggles between the positive terminal and the block.

    Also check for AC voltage, in case there is an alternator issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Those issues are BSI (or whatever Renault may call it) related. With the motor running, check your charging voltage at the battery terminals and for giggles between the positive terminal and the block.

    Also check for AC voltage, in case there is an alternator issue.
    Will do that tomorrow thanks

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    Addo could be onto something (alternator) since you mentioned the windows as well. Would be surprised if it is the ECU that is at fault.
    Earth fault somwhere seems a possibility.
    Take it that you have checked fuel pressure, exhayst back pressure and fuel pump current draw. They are easy to check and eliminate.
    Clean the MAF meter with carby cleaner but don't touch. Check plug colour. Take out injectors and see that they squirt properly.
    CAS can be temperamental and i would swap it out if they are not expensive (might have a spre one it the in sitsu one is good)
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
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    Well looks like I have found a solution, the alternator regulator looks likes its screwed. With the car running was holding 14V then diving to 4V or 6V then back to 14V. Was all over the shop TBH. Had checked everything else and replaced everything we though was suspect. Now its down to locating a reco alternator or a new one if I can locate on cheap enough. No wonder the thing wasn't running well with uneven voltage.

    Hope this is it, and when its replaced that it fixes the issue, will let you know.

    And again thanks for all the suggestions. I will put a post together on what we checked in what order to get to an end point, so hopefully someone else can work through it quicker

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