R5 (Gordini) RHR disc brake 'backing plate' NEEDED.
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  1. #1
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Default R5 (Gordini) RHR disc brake 'backing plate' NEEDED.

    Hey guys,

    I have run into a bit of trouble with my R5 I was needing to be driving this week.

    I had originally decided to put discs on the car, but managed to find some cylinders I thought suited to replace the old (degraded rubber) leaky ones on the car.

    It turns out they are the wrong type, and don't fit after all so back to square 1.

    So I thought I'd use the path of least resistance and put the R5 Alpine discs on the rear I had purchased with the car, as the rubber all looked good.

    I started by buying some wheel bearings as the backing plate behind the inner bearings needed to be removed, and replaced with a disc one.

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    Problem was the bearing wasn't a neat fit (they shouldn't need excessive force to get on should they?)
    So I ended up putting it back together with a damaged bearing in place, as I needed the car still rolling.

    I got it towed to the local mechanics today, and asked them to do the bearings for me..

    He called back 1/2 an hour later...

    1. The bearing I put on don't seem to fit, says the mechanic... (I guessed that)
    The part numbers (fairly standard bearings) are 10R32004 and 10R32005, being the left and right. (maybe I got them the wrong way round, but I was sure I was going on the original part numbers stamped on the removed ones.

    2. One of the backing plates for the discs is [email protected] (I have no idea where it's gone.. I have moved house since, so it COULD be in storage.. )

    3. The hoses are a different fitting to the drums, and confirming the master cyl would be ok to run discs. I did check the parts number, and the servo / and master cyl I have installed is listed as suiting the R5TS and the R5 Alpine Turbo.
    No one could give me a definitive answer on the proportioning valve either, and if I will need a different one, but the advice from several 'gurus' has been to fit the discs, and work forward troubleshooting.

    So first question (I've been contacting people in the UK all day) does anyone know of anyone that may have a spare, or know someone that may??

    Can anyone shed light on the bearing situation? I was sure I got the same parts as the bearings I took off..

    I've attached a pic of the said part, the missing one is actually the Right, not the left as pictured.

    I am going to tear my shed apart tomorrow and see if I can find it.. fingers crossed I can either find one, or even better find mine!!

    The other thing I could consider doing is taking my old drum brake components and getting them re-kitted.. that may now be the path of least resistance, and put the discs on it later when I have more time.

    Thanks in advance,

    David.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R5 (Gordini) RHR disc brake 'backing plate' NEEDED.-r5_disc_bracket.jpg  
    Last edited by vivid; 15th August 2012 at 12:34 AM. Reason: attachment gone
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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Looks like a pretty simple plate. If you can't find your one it would be pretty easy to take it to a engineering place and get them to fabricate up one in reverse to use on the right hand side.


    Should be pretty quick and cheap.
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  3. #3
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Thanks Jensen.

    I found someone in the UK that has one he'll ship to me (will call him at 9PM our time) and DHL will get it to me for around $100

    I had thought about getting it re-fabricated, but thought it may be too expensive.

    Anyone have any places to refer me? I'm in the Knox area.
    I could do a bit of a call around and see how expensive it is as a backup plan.

    David.
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  4. #4
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    OK, given that I think I've sorted the backing plate, next line of enquiry... the bearings.

    I have the rear (inners) listed as stated before:

    10R32004
    10R32005

    However they are a tight fit, and even the old ones I had to remove with a dremel.

    The mechanic has said that they would machine the stub axle surface to make it fit.. is this an acceptable idea?

    Maybe I am using the wrong bearings, but they look identical, and were taken from the original part numbers of the removed bearings.

    David.
    Last edited by vivid; 15th August 2012 at 01:30 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Another question...

    Rear brake disc tolerances...

    Does anyone know what the minimum disc thickness should be?
    I am sure these are fine, but the mechanic wants some assurance they are within spec.

    I'll keep trawling to see if I can find the answer.

    David.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid View Post
    I have the rear (inners) listed as stated before:

    10R32004
    10R32005

    However they are a tight fit, and even the old ones I had to remove with a dremel.
    I've no idea what those numbers are, however the dimensions appear to be (or advise vehicle oval plate details for proper confirmation):

    Inner bearing 25 x 47 x 15, Renault P/N 7703 090 267

    Outer bearing 20 x 42 x 15, Renault P/N 7703 090 266

    These are quite common (Renault) sizes used on various other models, so probably try the usual helpful sources and find another set.
    1963 Renault R4 Van
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  7. #7
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    Hi Simon,

    Thanks you've solved it either way with those dimensions.

    Renault Aust were no help as the car is too old (apparently)

    But the measurements you've just given are gold.

    Those numbers I quoted are actually the bearings supplier part numbers, and that are stamped on the bearing.

    I just bought 2 today, and they are different sizes, so at a guess I've bought an inner and an outer.

    See oval plate attached.

    it reads..

    1229
    0161322

    David.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R5 (Gordini) RHR disc brake 'backing plate' NEEDED.-100_8747_w.jpg  
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid View Post
    Thanks you've solved it either way with those dimensions.
    The numbers quoted above are correct for that car.



    Quote Originally Posted by vivid View Post
    Renault Aust were no help as the car is too old (apparently)
    I can appreciate that, the car is circa 30 years old and a model never sld in Australia. I wouldn't expect the current distributors to have the information. What does perplex me is how useless their agents are with a model that has just turned seven years old........

    [/QUOTE]


    The rear disc thickness is 10mm new, minimum thickness 9mm.
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  9. #9
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Thanks Simon,

    That helps a bunch.

    Yea the 'parts specialist' I spoke to mentioned they removed cars more than 8 years old, sounds like 7!

    And true, my car came from Africa.

    For reference the guy that has been able to help me out in the UK runs http://www.r5gordini.co.uk and is re-selling me parts at what they cost him which is nice!

    What others may or may not know is that proportioning valves for the discs and drums are no longer manufactured, and now there is a generic proportioning valve made for all 5s, disc or drum.

    To be on the safe side I also ordered one of these too, just in case the car goes sideways even after full adjustment.

    £20 - bracket
    £100 - proportioning valve
    £60 - Postage

    = happy me.

    Should be here in 4 days.

    I'll follow up the bearings tomorrow as at least one of them has to be wrong.

    David.
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Default Wrong Bearings ?????

    David,
    I suggest you first buy yourself a quality digital vernier, the one with the numeric display, prior to taking on any more of this type of work !!!

    Have a good day !!!!
    Ray geckoeng

    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

  11. #11
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Yes good point...

    I did order one a couple of months back but they were out of stock and sent me a refund.

    I actually thought one bearing would be wrong, but thought I'd get both to be safe.

    I don't know who told me the bearings are different on either side.
    I thought it strange, but I think it was meant that the inners are different from the outers, which I was very aware of. The bearing place isn't far from me, so I'll just swap them for the correct ones.

    I might go buy a digi vernier caliper tomorrow to save me any future grief.

    David.
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  12. #12
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    OK, thanks again Simon for those P/N and dimensions.

    I've been able to identify what I have.

    Inner bearing 25 x 47 x 15, Renault P/N 7703 090 267
    http://www.srg-bearings.com/KOYO/KOYO32005/
    ID d ( mm ) 25
    OD D ( mm ) 47
    thickness B ( mm ) 15

    Outer bearing 20 x 42 x 15, Renault P/N 7703 090 266
    http://www.srg-bearings.com/KOYO/KOYO32004/
    ID d ( mm ) 20
    OD D ( mm ) 42
    thickness B ( mm ) 15

    David.
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  13. #13
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    Another question, probably for Simon.

    Are there part numbers / dimensions listed for the inner bearing seals?

    David.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R5 (Gordini) RHR disc brake 'backing plate' NEEDED.-photo-1-.jpg  
    Last edited by vivid; 16th August 2012 at 02:22 PM.
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  14. #14
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    I am trying very hard to remember who I used in the UK. They were/are in Cheshire, very helpful, not expensive, and quick. Phoned on a Friday evening NZ time, parts here on Tuesday morning witha a rural delivery. If you strike trouble just ask, I will dig them out..

  15. #15
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    I would have thought like the bearings, generic ones would suit?

    I sure hope I can source these in Australia, as I'm already ordering bits from the UK, and it will hold things up further.

    David.
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  16. #16
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    I found the part number(s) I think...

    Renault P/N 7700622263: Oil Seal Bearer (Hub)
    Renault P/N 7703087071: Oil Seal (hub), (sits on bearer above.)

    Apparently (unconfirmed) they suit:

    R4 R5 1976.11 on
    R6 R7 1976.11 on
    R12 Break 1976.11 on
    R14
    R15 1976.11 on
    R16 1976.11 on
    R18 TX GTX Turbo Break.
    Fuego TL/GTL


    So maybe, maybe... if it's the case Ken from Caravelle can supply them after all.

    I'll have a chat with him tomorrow... any confirmation would be greatly appreciated, as my R5 manual is now with the car at the local mechanics.

    David.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid View Post
    Renault P/N 7703087071: Oil Seal (hub), (sits on bearer above.)

    R4 R5 1976.11 on
    R6 R7 1976.11 on
    R12 Break 1976.11 on
    R14
    R15 1976.11 on
    R16 1976.11 on
    R18 TX GTX Turbo Break.
    Fuego TL/GTL
    Yep, the number 7703 087 071 is confirmed as the seal used.
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  18. #18
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Thanks Simon for your Renault Part Number awesomeness..

    Howabout the 'race'?
    Is it true they also suit those models? (R12 and R16 in particular)

    Hopefully Ken has these in stock, mainly the races.
    I do have old rubber seals in the hubs which I can use if needed... and they still look ok.

    David.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid View Post
    Howabout the 'race'?
    Is it true they also suit those models? (R12 and R16 in particular)

    Hopefully Ken has these in stock, mainly the races.
    I do have old rubber seals in the hubs which I can use if needed... and they still look ok.

    David.
    By "race" do you mean the bearings? If so, yes they are used on certain other models, just not all the variations. In this case, they are the same bearings used on the rear hubs of the late 12 (1.4 & Virage), among others. Ken should be able to cross reference from the part numbers.



    Quote Originally Posted by vivid View Post
    I do have old rubber seals in the hubs which I can use if needed... and they still look ok.
    You mean the hub seals 7703 087 071? If so, are you serious? Whilst it is all apart, do it properly the first time and replace them. For the sake of likely a few dollars it'll save from having a neat surprise of grease going all over your rear discs and pads.......
    1963 Renault R4 Van
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    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup

  20. #20
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Sorry, I'm not being clear.. long day.

    What I meant was the seal bearer..

    Renault P/N 7700622263: Oil Seal Bearer

    I have the old one with a small dent which I can probably repair, but like you said, I can cross reference with Ken now I have the P/N.

    David.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid View Post
    I have the old one with a small dent which I can probably repair, but like you said, I can cross reference with Ken now I have the P/N.
    Best replacing than repairing, especially if the repair is where it will bear on the seal. Any imperfection will possibly damage the seal, or just leak from being distorted.
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  22. #22
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Unfortunately Ken has none. There was a glimpse of hope when he found a box with the right p/n but it was empty.

    So I'll have to wait for the seal bearer to arrive to see how it looks.

    Just an observation;

    The gordini/alpine discs attach to the steel hose with a concave (like a wine glass) flange fitting (attached to a flexi hose), whereas the drums have a convex (bulges outwards) flange fitting that plugs straight into the rear of the hub.

    Rather than cut and re-flange the steel fittings, I'm going to have the flexi hoses re-made to fit the convex flange fitting.

    David.
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  23. #23
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    The place I got the bearings from, have a seal listed for an R18 that is very close.

    The R5 seal is listed as: 44.7x54x5.5/9.1 (7703087071 grease seal)

    • Référence : 12011541B-CORTECO
    • Marque : CORTECO
    • Diamètre intérieur [mm] : 44.7
    • Diamètre extérieur [mm] : 54

    Their one listed as an R18 is 45mm x 54mm.

    For those in VIC, their part number (haven't fitted it yet... http://www.bearingwholesalers.com.au/)
    "402676N"

    These guys have been great.

    Worst case if it doesn't fit, the old ones will be going on.

    David.
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  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    It'll fit fine, it's only a hub seal. Much better than a damaged old one
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  25. #25
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    YUP, they will fit fine I recon.

    Just brought 2 home.

    David.
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