Wanted: A fuel pump for RX4
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Blaxlands Flat NSW
    Posts
    42

    Default Wanted: A fuel pump for RX4

    G'day friends and associate owners of Rx4s. As have mentioned before on a previous disscussion thread, still having trouble with engine not giving power when wanting to excellerate, but will seem to idle. Have drained the tank but seems to be as bad as before, thinking it must be a problem with fuel pump, pressure regulator or blocked up filter at the bottom of pump. Does any one out there know where I can get another fuel pump? I have tried EAI but they dont have any. Has any one dealt with companies that might keep/sell them in U.K. as I have bought other parts in the U.K. at a fraction of the price here in AUS.Any ideas would be greatfully recieved. RT

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    8,396

    Default

    Dont replace anything until you know what the problem is, or what it isn't.
    Geting the car onto a diagnostic computer might show that there is something bleeding obvious not working properly
    A faulty TPS (assuming it has one) not letting the ecu know you have come off idle will give the same symptoms. (TPS throttle position sensor, ecu = engine computer).



    I'm just trying to save you the expense and frustrating effort of changing parts that may not need changing.
    Sometmes the diagnostics dont show a clear culprit, and then you are back where you started from, but with the knowledge of what the problem isn't caused by.



    Jo

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Posts
    17,956

    Default

    I'm with Jo! Check the throttle body sensor output for a fault and while you're at it check the fly by wire is actually flying from the potentiometer at the pedal end.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I'm with Jo! Check the throttle body sensor output for a fault and while you're at it check the fly by wire is actually flying from the potentiometer at the pedal end.

    I don't believe any electronic throttle control uses potentiometer sensing at the pedal. Pots are too "noisy" and essentially an analogue device.

    I believe ECT uses non contact position sensing i.e, optical or hall effect shaft encoding.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,748

    Default

    A VT Commodore Bosch pump works fine. Put one in my Laguna, they go in Clios as well.

    Paid $100 from Repco a few years back.

  6. #6
    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Rome
    Posts
    2,660

    Default

    Have a chat to Breitie on this forum.

    I believe he has set up a Scenic Owner's group so he should be able to help out.

    Dave
    2008 Renault Laguna 2.0 dCi break
    ​1997 BMW K1200RS

    IR655
    (George Bush Snr): "I'll never apologize for the United States of America. Ever, I don't care what the facts are."


  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Posts
    17,956

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I don't believe any electronic throttle control uses potentiometer sensing at the pedal. Pots are too "noisy" and essentially an analogue device.

    I believe ECT uses non contact position sensing i.e, optical or hall effect shaft encoding.
    I meant check the connection from the thingy that connects the pedal to the ecu.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  8. #8
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I'm with Jo! Check the throttle body sensor output for a fault and while you're at it check the fly by wire is actually flying from the potentiometer at the pedal end.
    Its an RX4. They use cables not fly by wire.

    If you decide you need a pump we have good working units on the shelf ready to go.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  9. #9
    Member Philip76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Is the problem constant or does it only happen at certain fuel fill levels? My Scenic does it when I get down to about an eighth of a tank. It never used to do it - this has only started happening in the last 12 months. I'm suspecting a clogged pickup on the pump but haven't had it looked at yet. If your problem appears related to fuel level, I'd suspect the fuel pickup. Perhaps your pickup is more clogged, making it happen more often. I don't know if it can be cleaned because I've never had the pump out.

    Is the RX4 really a mechanically linked throttle straight from the pedal? Surely it just uses the same F4R engine as the 2WD models, with a long cable from the pedal to the throttle potentiometer, mounted on top of the transmission? In any case if the problem is with the throttle potentiometer, which is possible, it's about a $300 part for some stupid reason. Mine failed a few years ago. I haven't taken it apart but its official name is 'potentiometer' so I expect it really is a pot, not a more elaborate device using hall effect sensors or optical sensors, which would have been more reliable.

  10. #10
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip76 View Post
    Is the problem constant or does it only happen at certain fuel fill levels? My Scenic does it when I get down to about an eighth of a tank. It never used to do it - this has only started happening in the last 12 months. I'm suspecting a clogged pickup on the pump but haven't had it looked at yet. If your problem appears related to fuel level, I'd suspect the fuel pickup. Perhaps your pickup is more clogged, making it happen more often. I don't know if it can be cleaned because I've never had the pump out.

    Is the RX4 really a mechanically linked throttle straight from the pedal? Surely it just uses the same F4R engine as the 2WD models, with a long cable from the pedal to the throttle potentiometer, mounted on top of the transmission? In any case if the problem is with the throttle potentiometer, which is possible, it's about a $300 part for some stupid reason. Mine failed a few years ago. I haven't taken it apart but its official name is 'potentiometer' so I expect it really is a pot, not a more elaborate device using hall effect sensors or optical sensors, which would have been more reliable.
    Thats right RX4 has a cable straight to the throttle body. No potentiometer. Pity because we sell every one we can get and its annoys me that we can't get them off RX4's

    Having said that, RX4 throttle bodies have been known to fail, quite rare though.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  11. #11
    Member Philip76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    71

    Default

    That's amazing. I wonder why they did that. The same engine probably won't meet the same emissions regulations if it uses a manual throttle instead of an electronic one.

    Anyway it supports the fuel pump theory. Do they have a removable or cleanable filter on their pickup pipe?

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Blaxlands Flat NSW
    Posts
    42

    Default

    To add to my discussion re my scenic, I started it yesterday, no problem starting and idling, allowed it to warm up, then tried to excellerate, got to 1,800 revs and then started to miss and then wanted to die, release the accelerator and would happily idle, tried this a few times but no apparent change. TO NOTE. Turned ignition off, waited a minute and restarted, the engine performed then as if nothing was wrong. However Not game to drive it out of the garage incase I can't get it back in under its own power. Any more suggestions as we don't live near a Renault Workshop to do diagnostic test. While I'm talking about diagnostics, where is the connection socket? Would other car makers be able to do the diagnostics on the RX4? Thanks fellas for your assistance. RT

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,748

    Default

    My Laguna fuel pump was a bugger to diagnose - it only failed when really warm.

    Would do endless short trips quite happily, but any more than half an hour (in summer too) would see the engine lose power to the point where progress was halted.

    Would start and idle fine, and if left to cool down for a bit would continue on its way again.

    Fuel pumps can be tricky. A new one cured it.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    8,396

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by richtind View Post
    To add to my discussion re my scenic, I started it yesterday, no problem starting and idling, allowed it to warm up, then tried to excellerate, got to 1,800 revs and then started to miss and then wanted to die, release the accelerator and would happily idle, tried this a few times but no apparent change. TO NOTE. Turned ignition off, waited a minute and restarted, the engine performed then as if nothing was wrong. However Not game to drive it out of the garage incase I can't get it back in under its own power. Any more suggestions as we don't live near a Renault Workshop to do diagnostic test. While I'm talking about diagnostics, where is the connection socket? Would other car makers be able to do the diagnostics on the RX4? Thanks fellas for your assistance. RT
    I still think its the TPS .
    If it starts and idles perfectly and only falls to sh!t a few seconds after you load up the engine, and returns to perfect idle, TPS is a likely suspect

    I reckon you should be able to work this one out with a multi meter and some good advice.

    I can only advise you on older pre 2000 renault TPS, and without knowing how the system on you car works I'd be stabbing in the dark a bit, and my advice might not be pertinent.
    There is already enough confusing discusion about pots etc.

    For starters make sure the damn thing is plugged in and hasn't been damaged or unplugged.

    Its usual location is attached to the throttle body, wrapped around the throttle spindle (hence the name throttle position sensor).




    Jo

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Yarrabilba, Queensland
    Posts
    2,755

    Default

    Start at square 1.

    Has the car been out in any rain, or washed lately?
    RX-4's have a crap design at the upper bonnet seal, letting water into the coil channels.
    This displays similar symptoms to what you describe. Mine sat in some rain last year and it dripped into the coil channels and on my little diagnostic scanner, showed a fuel system problem.
    It's not a difficult job removing the coils either, just unplug the wires to the coils and remove the small torx head bolt holding each coil in place.

    Sq 2

    How many Kms has the car done?
    Has the in-line fuel filter been changed? Very simple job and Dave C at French Connection will have plenty in stock. Filter is located just in front of the rear right wheel arch.

    I'd stress having the diagnostics checked as well. With a proper diag-scanner. Call someone like Lube-mobile if you don't want to drive the car. Used them a few years ago in Brisbane, the guy couldn't do enough to help. Even gave me his details so I could buy a fuel regulator at cost.

    For self diagnosis of the fuel pump for a problem.......IMO, it is really only able to be done with the tank getting close to empty, which is when mine displayed a problem. Take a few corners and power on if you can, or right at the exit. If the pump is dying, it will likely splutter at this time. yeas, sure, some pumps in good condition may splutter too, but in my experience, the Scenic Rx-4 one doesn't. if it's faulty, maybe this will display it.


    I would also say, DO NOT remove the pump from the tank until you are 110% certain you've got the diagnosis correct.
    If you decide to take the pump out, make sure you have a new sealing ring and rubber handy so you can immediately fit the second pump.
    The Rx-4 fuel tank is plastic and relaxes straight after the original sealing ring is removed and it's paramount to fit the new one immediately.


    I've done all this with mine, so am just telling you what I have learned.

    My Scenic has over 200,000km on it, never a real problem with it at all in the years I have had it.
    A/C compressor has died, not a big problem, easy fix and not costly.
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    203

    Default

    Well my post disapeared into the ether, but no mind HKP has covered most of what I wrote anyway.


    As HKP said the lower windscreen scuttle pannel sucks and the seal won't stop water getting past onto the head. Unlike the Clio the RX4 doesnt have a decorative plastic cover and the water pools in the spark plug wells. ( shorts them out and kills em!)

    UK has good supply of new aftermarket coils ( early RX4 coils were like the ones on the Laguna - crapware. )

    Ony things I add are the diag socket is in the fuse box at the lower R/H dash.


    Try and get a pressue gauge in just before the fuel rail as the fuel reg may have collapsed causing a lack of fuel as it flows straight back into the tank.

    If you can't get it on a Regie diagnostic confuser a mobile mechanic may have a OBD reader that can speak 'French' Only a 'real Renault Diagnostic computer was supposed to be able to read and flash the ECU, some generic ones can interface but I never found one before my RX4 departed.

    I may have mentioned the Cam Phaser on the inlet cam last time, it can deliver a flat gutless engine if its cactus.

    Been raining a lot down your way lateley - is the Reggie under cover o'night?

    I wrote a spiel on how I built up the scuttle seal so it works but it my have been deleted in the Go Daddy deal.

    PS


    Watched one of his lady NASCAR drivers get shunted into a wall a few days ago, gee Danica Patrick can drive a decent left hand turn.
    93' 205GTi
    'don't force it son - use a bigger hammer'

  17. #17
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default

    There's plenty of coils available here so no need to look at UK.

    There right about the water problems and lack of cover on the RX4. We had one here once and we tried to fit a cover but because of the different throttle bodies a 2WD one didn't fit so we went hunting in our stock looking for one that would do. Ended up with a 406 HDi and a few cable ties and I don't think she's had a problem since.

    I told her to be aware of that incase a novice mechanic looks at it because it has HDi written across it.

    Another thing it could be because Scenics are known to have a problem with them is the TDC sensor. We had one here that you'd swear was fuel pump but after it was changed it still did similar things to what your describing and it turned out to a be the TDC (top dead centre) on the flywheel.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Yarrabilba, Queensland
    Posts
    2,755

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    There's plenty of coils available here so no need to look at UK.

    There right about the water problems and lack of cover on the RX4. We had one here once and we tried to fit a cover but because of the different throttle bodies a 2WD one didn't fit so we went hunting in our stock looking for one that would do. Ended up with a 406 HDi and a few cable ties and I don't think she's had a problem since.

    I told her to be aware of that incase a novice mechanic looks at it because it has HDi written across it.

    Another thing it could be because Scenics are known to have a problem with them is the TDC sensor. We had one here that you'd swear was fuel pump but after it was changed it still did similar things to what your describing and it turned out to a be the TDC (top dead centre) on the flywheel.
    Good point Dave.
    Never considered the TDC sensor as the only problem mine ever displayed was difficult starting in relation to the TDC.
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    There's plenty of coils available here so no need to look at UK.



    Another thing it could be because Scenics are known to have a problem with them is the TDC sensor. We had one here that you'd swear was fuel pump but after it was changed it still did similar things to what your describing and it turned out to a be the TDC (top dead centre) on the flywheel.

    Yes - Sorry Dave I got lazy after my original post vaporised and forgot to mention you at my second attempt, Mea Culpa. Cheep cheep from UK though. Do you find the early Siemens? coils fail and the later Japanese? ones are more reliable?



    Tooooo true Re the TDC Sensor. The gap where is sits at the top of the bell housing just acts like a hoover. I would swear I had to clean that darn thing every 12 - 18 months. It was like a permanent magnet and attracted all sort of stuff and I used to pull it out to clean it ( only two little bolts that are easy to get at. Got wise after the second or third service and just used a can of contact cleaner with a straw to blast it clean in the end. A clean TDC signal would be restored toot sweet.

    I had a hot start fail on my old Fuego that was a TDC sensor. Would start cold no problemo but once hot refused to restart again till it was stone motherless cold - drove me bonkers as I was chasing all sorts of dead alleys like the carb vapor lock etc before I found it. Threw me because it would purr like a kitten even when hot until you turned it off, no miss no lack of power just refused to catch on a hot start.

    .
    93' 205GTi
    'don't force it son - use a bigger hammer'

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •