Renault 16 love-in
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Ceenine's Avatar
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    Default Renault 16 love-in

    Today my avocado green 1976 16TS rendezvoused with Balki's latest acquisition, a 1973 16TL, also avocado green. The weather did not lend itself to a photo shoot. The major obvious difference was the dashboard and manifolding under the bonnet.

    I look forward to a drag race in the spring when the roads are more conducive to front wheel drive torsional effort. I have no doubt that the TS will easily outdrag the TL. I expect to be 100m in front after 1 km. Is that realistic?

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    I was not aware that the TL and TS were marketed together into the seventies. Some insight into this would be appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceenine View Post
    Today my avocado green 1976 16TS rendezvoused with Balki's latest acquisition, a 1973 16TL, also avocado green. The weather did not lend itself to a photo shoot. The major obvious difference was the dashboard and manifolding under the bonnet.

    I look forward to a drag race in the spring when the roads are more conducive to front wheel drive torsional effort. I have no doubt that the TS will easily outdrag the TL. I expect to be 100m in front after 1 km. Is that realistic?

    I was not aware that the TL and TS were marketed together into the seventies. Some insight into this would be appreciated.
    It'l be more than 100 m I reckon.

    Simon will probably provide real detail but the TS was released sometime after the R16, and later the base 16 was classified TL. It was cheaper and had fewer features (instruments, map light for passenger etc) and of course the bog standard non-crossflow engine. Still a great car but, if I recall, the 16TS was the greater seller despite greater cost. I thought they ran both in parallel most of the time the 16 was sold here, but this could be corrected........
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    I put a 16TS engine into my R8 back in the '80's same fitting as the Collier's rally car of the day. It had some handling problems to start with, but boy did it go! The TS engine is a real gem.
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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    I owned both a TL and a TS one after the other. I was assured there would be no TS in Oz for several years, but after only one year my pride and joy 1969 R16TL was gazumped by the introduction of the all singing and dancing NEW R16Ts, which I just had to have. When I got my 16TS, it went a bit harder, but with Australian Monroe shockers it still never equalled the times the Bilstein equipped 1475 cc TL did on the Melbourne-Newcastle run up the old Hume and Pacific Highways.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    1470cc. But I agree TL was underrated.

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    Fellow Frogger! Alastair Browne's Avatar
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    Surely there must be an anniversary for the 16 round about now. A proper 'love in' organised by an enthusiast over a couple of days would be a great thing - even if it was in Tasmania! I would be a starter. C'mon Mikeee

    Unfortunately no one organised one for the 15 before it was too late. Simon knows all the relevant dates.

    Alastair

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceenine View Post
    a 1973 16TL, also avocado green.
    If it is original Avoca(r)do Green, it won't be a 1973 build car. If it is a 1973 build car, it won't be Avocado Green, or it is a rare prototype, or it has dodgy ID and compliance plates. :-)

    The Avoca(r)do Green colour was first introduced in June 1974.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ceenine View Post
    I was not aware that the TL and TS were marketed together into the seventies.
    The R1150 (what I call a pre-TL 16) was introduced in Australia in June 1968. The R1151 16 TS was introduced in June 1969 and stocks sold through to 1977. The R1152 1565cc 16TL was introduced to Australia in May 1971 with stocks selling through to 1976.

    The R1154 16TS Automatic (initially promoted as a 16TA) was introduced in Australia in August 1972. So this year will be the Australian 40th anniversary of the 16TS Automatic (party time!!), prior to the 50th Anniversary of the 16 in 2015.
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    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    Agree with the above, the later TL's had the 1565 engine with different carburation. I think they had the cross flow head from the TS or am I wrong? Certainly the earlier 1470's had a conventional head.
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    Fellow Frogger! Ceenine's Avatar
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    Default Renault 16 love-in

    If the later model 16 TL had a cross-flow head just like the TS then it raises the question even more so why Renault Australia would assemble 2 models so similar when they assembled the 12 (Virage) and 16 only. Probably explains a lot of things about French marketing.

    I took the 16TS out for a run in preparation for Bastille Day at Salamanca Square in Hobart in two weeks time. I am still amazed at the ease of use of the 4 speed column shift. I now drive a 6 speed auto after 45 years of manual driving so I guess driving a manual again comes fairly naturally. The revs are a bit high and the car somewhat noisy at 150 km/hr (only kidding) but that is why ear plugs were invented.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trading Estate View Post
    Agree with the above, the later TL's had the 1565 engine with different carburation. I think they had the cross flow head from the TS or am I wrong? Certainly the earlier 1470's had a conventional head.
    Both the 1470cc R1150 (pre-TL) 16 and the later 1565cc R1152 (TL) and R1153 (TL Automatic) 16's had the non-crossflow head. In Australia, the only 16s to have the crossflow head were the TS and TS Automatic.
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    the car is definitely advocado green from original and was sold september 1973 by regan motors as i have the oringinal service books and warranty card has not had a respray as its green every where

    by the way don you will be 2 kms in front as the engine is a little tired but when i get up to speed i will go past you as i have faster gearing with the bigger tyres

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balki View Post
    the car is definitely advocado green from original and was sold september 1973 by regan motors as i have the oringinal service books and warranty card has not had a respray as its green every where
    OK, sounds interesting. It is either a significant find, or some other oddity. Any chance of pics? And what is the date on the compliance plate (100mm x 100mm square plate on the RHS inner wing under the bonnet)?
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    Fellow Frogger! MIKEEE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post

    The R1154 16TS Automatic (initially promoted as a 16TA) was introduced in Australia in August 1972. So this year will be the Australian 40th anniversary of the 16TS Automatic (party time!!), prior to the 50th Anniversary of the 16 in 2015.
    Hadn't realised the 1154 was a '72 release... Will have to see which month ours was made in.

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    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    There was lots of little differences between them. TS was more than just a more powerful version.

    TS had full instrumentation whereas the TL had the simple basic strip speedo.
    TS (later versions) had tomb stone seats whereas the TL never did.
    TS even had little reflectors on the bottom of each door whereas the TL didn't.
    TS even had plastic trims that ran down the rear C pillers where the rear seat belts mounted whereas the TL didn't.
    TS had driving lights. TL never did.

    Remember now some 40 years later alot of cars have been chopped and changed.

    Main differences driving them where I learnt the difference between torque and horsepower. The more powerful TS needed revs and the harder it reved the better it went whereas the torquey TL had its pulling power down low.
    As for a drag race I'm backing the TS would crap on it but the TL would be first off the line. On a slow winding road where you need torque out of the corners the TL would have a good show.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceenine View Post
    If the later model 16 TL had a cross-flow head just like the TS then it raises the question even more so why Renault Australia would assemble 2 models so similar when they assembled the 12 (Virage) and 16 only. Probably explains a lot of things about French marketing.

    I took the 16TS out for a run in preparation for Bastille Day at Salamanca Square in Hobart in two weeks time. I am still amazed at the ease of use of the 4 speed column shift. I now drive a 6 speed auto after 45 years of manual driving so I guess driving a manual again comes fairly naturally. The revs are a bit high and the car somewhat noisy at 150 km/hr (only kidding) but that is why ear plugs were invented.
    They were pretty fast and quiet by the standards of their day, believe me. And one of the best column changes ever made. 2nd to 3rd and plant the foot was always lovely in a 16TS.

    I wouldn't be too hard about their "French" marketing though. These were the golden years for Renault in Australia and there were some very fussy Australian import/local assembly rules regarding engine size and quotas and local content and the like. The 12 came later and replaced the R10 whereas the 16 kept going through that transition, and they both sold pretty well in slightly different price brackets.
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    Default Renault 16 love affair

    I owned both a Late 76 model TS Auto and TL Auto within a year of each other back in the 80s when I did my time as amechanic in Singleton Hunter Valley.

    The TL was quiet and refined and beautiful to drive possibly the most comfortable french drive Ive ever Known.
    The TS brought a raw nervous energy to the ride and never failed to excite I owned 3 auto and 2 manual versions between 1981 and 1990 and the Auto was always the better even though only 3 gears with the change electrics properly tuned these cars where a delicious experience.

    There seems to be little appreciation for the R16 Mark yet it was the frirst hatch ever and the engineering was worlds ahead of the competition.

    Give me one of these over my C4 any Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceenine View Post
    If the later model 16 TL had a cross-flow head just like the TS then it raises the question even more so why Renault Australia would assemble 2 models so similar when they assembled the 12 (Virage) and 16 only. Probably explains a lot of things about French marketing.

    I took the 16TS out for a run in preparation for Bastille Day at Salamanca Square in Hobart in two weeks time. I am still amazed at the ease of use of the 4 speed column shift. I now drive a 6 speed auto after 45 years of manual driving so I guess driving a manual again comes fairly naturally. The revs are a bit high and the car somewhat noisy at 150 km/hr (only kidding) but that is why ear plugs were invented.
    When people complain about poor marketing here in Australia back then I'll try to put it into perspective like a Frenchman did for me back then.

    Firstly I agree the 3 biggest marketing mistakes made here in Oz were the R5, R16TX and R30

    Back in 73/74 Renault was the 4th largest producer here in Oz, It went Holden, Ford, Chrysler, Renault so in this country Renault were considered a major player, I'm surprised how many 70's Renault still excist considering the number that I've wrecked and all the other wreckers plus private wreckers over the past 40 years.
    Renault Australia were producing cars from 1964 to 1981 so there was a lot of cars built, I don't know the number but you can imaging after 17 years that quite a few.

    In Europe where the factories are going 24/7 to produce the same number of cars as our 17 years equals 2 1/2 hrs.

    Think of it 2.5 hrs production compared to our 17 years and with Australia's different ADR rules and Australian content you can see why the French were'nt that interested in us.

    I laugh today when Holden celebrate 1 million car made after 40 years and in Europe they count each model run in millions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    When people complain about poor marketing here in Australia back then I'll try to put it into perspective like a Frenchman did for me back then.

    Firstly I agree the 3 biggest marketing mistakes made here in Oz were the R5, R16TX and R30

    Back in 73/74 Renault was the 4th largest producer here in Oz, It went Holden, Ford, Chrysler, Renault so in this country Renault were considered a major player, I'm surprised how many 70's Renault still excist considering the number that I've wrecked and all the other wreckers plus private wreckers over the past 40 years.
    Renault Australia were producing cars from 1964 to 1981 so there was a lot of cars built, I don't know the number but you can imaging after 17 years that quite a few.

    In Europe where the factories are going 24/7 to produce the same number of cars as our 17 years equals 2 1/2 hrs.

    Think of it 2.5 hrs production compared to our 17 years and with Australia's different ADR rules and Australian content you can see why the French were'nt that interested in us.

    I laugh today when Holden celebrate 1 million car made after 40 years and in Europe they count each model run in millions.
    14 years, pretty sure EJ was the millionth in 1962.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    14 years, pretty sure EJ was the millionth in 1962.
    Was it? I thought it was HQ/J/X series during the 70's but still 14 years is along time compared to Europe.

    What was the figures quoted in Torque a while back? Something like the 1 miliionth 206 in 3 years. ( something like that) Thats just 1 model.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Was it? I thought it was HQ/J/X series during the 70's but still 14 years is along time compared to Europe.

    What was the figures quoted in Torque a while back? Something like the 1 miliionth 206 in 3 years. ( something like that) Thats just 1 model.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Back in 73/74 Renault was the 4th largest producer here in Oz, It went Holden, Ford, Chrysler, Renault so in this country Renault were considered a major player,
    Um, not quite. :-)

    1973 Australian Market Share
    Holden 32%
    Ford 27.5%
    Chrysler 9.9%
    Nissan 7.3%
    Toyota 7%
    Leyland 5.6%
    Mazda 3.1%
    Volkswagen 2.6%
    Renault/Peugeot 1.7%
    Volvo 0.7%
    Honda 0.5%
    Mercedes 0.4%
    Others 1.7%

    Maurice Fertey in 1973 considered there were three market groups, Holden & Ford at the top having their own private war, then Chrysler, Leyland, Datsun and Toyota battling it out, with Mazda, VW and Renault Australia in the third group. By the end of 1974 he wanted Renault/Peugeot to be at the top of that third group. By the end of 1974 Renault achieved their best ever Australian sales with 6,569 Renaults sold, with Renault Australia having a market share of nearly 2%.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alastair Browne View Post
    Surely there must be an anniversary for the 16 round about now. A proper 'love in' organised by an enthusiast over a couple of days would be a great thing - even if it was in Tasmania! I would be a starter. C'mon Mikeee

    Unfortunately no one organised one for the 15 before it was too late. Simon knows all the relevant dates.

    Alastair
    _even_ in Tasmania!?!?!

    actually tassie is a great place for club meets and tours given its dense concentration of drivers' roads; it'd certainly suit an R8 50th

    cheers! Peter

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    All it needs is organizers and a decent amount of notice for people to arrange holidays etc and to make sure it doesn't clash with other major Renault events. We have suggested to Col for Tassie to hold a major event. You also need at least a full weekend and preferably longer if you want to get people from a long way away. Example RCCQ RSAE weekends get people from Vic, NSW and SA. The 4CV Register bi annual Muster has them from all over Aust and overseas. This year RCCQ organized a major trip to France. RCCQ is planning major event again in about April 2014 and expecting French visitors. It will probably be for 2 weeks. 4CV register Junee April 2013 and every odd numbered year. It isn't really all that hard. Why don't the Presidents of all the Reno or like car clubs have a bit of a talk fest via conference call or email to sort out major Renault events and get together s well in advance. I haven't been to Tassie since early 1960's love to go again.

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Alastair Browne's Avatar
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    Hey, Peter, I've been to Tasmania with Club Lotus a few years ago and it was fantastic with great driving roads and only a rare sighting of the boys in blue!

    The only drawback was an MG gathering and I swear all MGBs are speed-limited to 80 kph and without rear view mirrors and/or obstinacy!

    I shall alert The President of the RCCA to Sunroof's idea.

    Alastair

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    The R1154 16TS Automatic (initially promoted as a 16TA) was introduced in Australia in August 1972.
    Done my research, and the latest addition is an 1154 complianced in 7-72 - must have been an early one!

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