R8/10 side draught manifold
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 33
  1. #1
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default R8/10 side draught manifold

    Hi guys,
    Just listed this on ebay.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160828194...84.m1555.l2649

    Advertisement


    Doesn't come with carby but I can source one if anyone is interested.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Tamworth UK
    Posts
    618

    Default

    Hi David, could you also do a photo of the face where it goes to the head please.
    Cheers

  3. #3
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwia110 View Post
    Hi David, could you also do a photo of the face where it goes to the head please.
    Cheers
    Hows this?

    Just gave them a light rub with some mild wet and dry to check for corrosion and there doesn't appear to be any.
    The bolt holes look strange to me, is that normal
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R8/10 side draught manifold-imgp0355.jpg   R8/10 side draught manifold-imgp0356.jpg   R8/10 side draught manifold-imgp0357.jpg  
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,366

    Default

    I was going to say the bolt holes look normal for a Lynx manifold, then I looked at the eBay link and saw it WAS a Lynx.

    Interesting aircleaner arrangement, I have something similar on a spare carbie I have, but that one used a modified Holden air filter in a horizontal fashion rather than the more normal vertical filter or horizontal ram tubes and socks.

    KB
    KB


  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    monbulk
    Posts
    645

    Default Carby

    Hi Dave,
    What would be the cost for a matching carburetor - Dell Orto or Weber to suit. I assume this would be a 40DCOE.

    David

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,745

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hi Dave,
    What would be the cost for a matching carburetor - Dell Orto or Weber to suit. I assume this would be a 40DCOE.

    David
    my memory is about 800+ for a new weber 40dcoe and around 400 for a good second hand one.

    if you go down this path then i'd highly recommend using a good dyno guy to set it and the ignition advance up. single sidedrafts are harder to set up optimally than twins (oddly for those who have played with twin SUs).

    i'd also recommend a cold air box and some shielding between carby and exhaust manifold (which, especially if stainless, i'd suggest getting ceramic coated by someone like jet-hot)

    cheers! peter

  7. #7
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hi Dave,
    What would be the cost for a matching carburetor - Dell Orto or Weber to suit. I assume this would be a 40DCOE.

    David
    Funny you should ask. I have a Dellotrto DHLA 40 with me right now. Appears to be in cood nic. Its on and Escort manifold and full set of linkages with trumpets. Its going on ebay soon.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    monbulk
    Posts
    645

    Default Carbs

    Thanks, Peter for the heads-up.
    Obviously it is not as straightforward as I would have thought / liked. A loonngg time ago I played with twin SU's on BMC engines ( no Dyno ). They were leaky, sticky, [email protected]@rds of things.


    David

  9. #9
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Thanks, Peter for the heads-up.
    Obviously it is not as straightforward as I would have thought / liked. A loonngg time ago I played with twin SU's on BMC engines ( no Dyno ). They were leaky, sticky, [email protected]@rds of things.


    David
    Yep that sounds like SU's. Go out of tune with the temperature.

    Webers or Dellortos are fairly set and forget once you get them set up as Peter suggests
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,592

    Default The old days ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Thanks, Peter for the heads-up.
    Obviously it is not as straightforward as I would have thought / liked. A loonngg time ago I played with twin SU's on BMC engines ( no Dyno ). They were leaky, sticky, [email protected]@rds of things.
    David
    David
    These days we seem to think that high tech is the only way to go. Spend spend spend.
    I don't see why you cannot have a play just like we used to in the good old days. It would be no worse than the B#####D SUs. At least you wold not have to syncronise them with the dual throat.
    I say give it a go. Buy a book on Tuning carbys. If you do not want perfection but a bit of fun see how you get on. If you do not get that carby, they are available in the UK on ebay and direct new for around 350 pounds. Sometimes they will not sell outside the UK so ask first

    jaahn

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Thanks, Peter for the heads-up.
    Obviously it is not as straightforward as I would have thought / liked. A loonngg time ago I played with twin SU's on BMC engines ( no Dyno ). They were leaky, sticky, [email protected]@rds of things.


    David
    But.. SUs are very forgiving when tuning and nearly always give good drive ability, even when not optimally tuned.

    In the early days I had a 1 3/4 SU on a 403 tuned solely with a colour tune plug (and great difficulty!). There is only one thing to change on an SU, the needle which simplifies tuning. You never have problems with oversize venturis because they adjust.

    Unlike Webers which just refuse to do anything properly unless they very close in jetting.

    I must admit I still have a soft spot for SU carbies.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,366

    Default

    If this dellorto has been jetted for a 1300 or 1600, depending on what engine you are running I would stick it on as is and see how it runs. Often even though the jetting may not be ideal, they will still run.

    Setting up a sidedraft carbie is more complex as people have suggested as there are more options and settings to play with.

    With SU's though, even though there may be only a needle to play with, they can still wear or have been modified by PO and lead to issues. The dashpots and dashpot oil can also cause dramas.

    The mini/BMC brigade is still split on whether DCOE Weber or dellorto offer any benefits over a properly tuned and maintained single 1.75 SU (the early mini's came out with a much smaller SU; the Cooper S and Clubman GT's got either 1.25 or 1.5 Twin's, the 1.75 didn't come out until the latter English minis after ours had finished).

    The other complexity to consider is throttle linkages. Easy enough to fabricate up if you run an R12 Exhaust manifold, but a bit harder if running something else and want to retain somewhat the standard R8/10 setup.

    KB
    KB


  13. #13
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    David
    These days we seem to think that high tech is the only way to go. Spend spend spend.
    I don't see why you cannot have a play just like we used to in the good old days. It would be no worse than the B#####D SUs. At least you wold not have to syncronise them with the dual throat.
    I say give it a go. Buy a book on Tuning carbys. If you do not want perfection but a bit of fun see how you get on. If you do not get that carby, they are available in the UK on ebay and direct new for around 350 pounds. Sometimes they will not sell outside the UK so ask first

    jaahn
    Thats what I would do and learn alot along the way but seems that suggesting doing things on the cheap gets frowned upon.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,592

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    But.. SUs are very forgiving when tuning and nearly always give good drive ability, even when not optimally tuned.

    In the early days I had a 1 3/4 SU on a 403 tuned solely with a colour tune plug (and great difficulty!). There is only one thing to change on an SU, the needle which simplifies tuning. You never have problems with oversize venturis because they adjust.

    Unlike Webers which just refuse to do anything properly unless they very close in jetting.

    I must admit I still have a soft spot for SU carbies.
    Hi,
    Yea SUs will work to a reasonable degree with no tuning. Just never very good. There were lots like that in the old days.

    However I would argue about the statement "Unlike Webers which just refuse to do anything properly unless they very close in jetting." That was not my experience.

    However if you bought a new one out of the box then it was set up for a Ferrarie or Mazeritie (bad spelling I know) or the like. This means it had the wrong chokes, tubes, jets etc for whatever you had. Thus it ran like sh#t. You had to buy it from a dealer who would put a reasonable guess of these things in to get started. No extra charge. This was usually OK and you could just rejet on the road to a good result.

    I spent a few miles with an old thermal exhaust gas analyser up the pipe to get good power AND good milage. Used big long hills for a load. You could do it more easily now with an o2 sensor.
    Jaahn

  15. #15
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default

    [QUOTE=renault8&10;1073790]If this dellorto has been jetted for a 1300 or 1600, depending on what engine you are running I would stick it on as is and see how it runs. Often even though the jetting may not be ideal, they will still run.

    Setting up a sidedraft carbie is more complex as people have suggested as there are more options and settings to play with.

    With SU's though, even though there may be only a needle to play with, they can still wear or have been modified by PO and lead to issues. The dashpots and dashpot oil can also cause dramas.

    The mini/BMC brigade is still split on whether DCOE Weber or dellorto offer any benefits over a properly tuned and maintained single 1.75 SU (the early mini's came out with a much smaller SU; the Cooper S and Clubman GT's got either 1.25 or 1.5 Twin's, the 1.75 didn't come out until the latter English minis after ours had finished).

    The other complexity to consider is throttle linkages. Easy enough to fabricate up if you run an R12 Exhaust manifold, but a bit harder if running something else and want to retain somewhat the standard R8/10 setup.


    This dellorto is off a 1.6 Escort so yes it will run on a Renault and teach you alot about tuning along the way.
    Side draughts webers and dellortos tend to work on the theory that if you shove enough air and fuel in its gotta go fast.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    monbulk
    Posts
    645

    Default

    Thats what I would do and learn alot along the way but seems that suggesting doing things on the cheap gets frowned upon.
    I have no problem at all with cheap. It's nasty that I don't like. By all means cobble up a working solution (eg linkages ). Then remove the bit of fencing wire and refine it with fittings which all look the same.
    That's the way I would want to go.

    David

  17. #17
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default

    Good to see we have some bids so its sold, now we just have to work out the price.

    Here is the Escort carby. Thought I'd show everyone before I put on flebay
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R8/10 side draught manifold-imgp0352.jpg   R8/10 side draught manifold-imgp0353.jpg  
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,745

    Default

    By all means have a play. However, if bothering fitting the thing, then surely you want an improvement in performance. This is hard to optimise without a Dyno. And that means an expert being hired. Why hesitate?

    I've had twin SUs on a 1275 Midget and played silly buggers on them myself. All good clean fun and no harm done. Then I had "A" series guru Rick Scott take it out to 1387 & optimise it (still with SUs). Wonderful motor.

    In my current fleet of toys I have a Moke 1275 taken out to 1310 & with a single (second hand) Weber 40 DC0E. Even though it has a horrible flowing gooseneck manifold (soon to be removed) my Dyno guy wrought magic on it compared to the manual playing about that had been done by a race mechanic previously. Too many variables to decide on SU versus Weber but (with straight manifold) most tests I've read say Weber. Just under 44kw at the wheels.

    Another toy is an R8 1.4 (non cross flow) with a single (second hand) Weber 40 DC0E & Lynx manifold. Originally set up quite nicely by the same race mechanic but much better after the Dyno guy had fiddled it (although he had 3 attempts). Just over 44 kw at the wheels.

    The Djet has a similar 1.4 motor (& Lynx) but with a (new) Dellorto 40. An interesting motor as it is to the specs that Renault Australia had set up when developing a prototype faux Gordini 1.4 Virage. A previous owner bought the proto & the specs that came with it & had a new 1.4 modified to those specs (except for marginally bigger inlet valves on the prototype motor). So, a well developed motor that ran very nicely. Even so, my Dyno guy found 14%. That's an instantly noticeable difference. It is, incidentally, & for whatever reason, a nicer motor than the R8 (although the Djet only weighing 615kg muddies the comparison waters). Was 50 kw at the wheels and is now 57.

    Finally my 4CV is having (new) twin Weber 40s fitted to its A5 motor. All happening as I write & when ordering the Webers we got the jets etc as per those for 1255 R8G motors as a close-ish starting point. That conversion is in its final stages now (after some fiddling about getting bespoke inlet manifolds lining up properly). I wouldn't in a fit consider doing any of the tuning myself. It was 50kw at the wheels in standard A5 form so we will see what we now get - if it's less than the Djet's 57 then even though one can't make simple comparisons across sessions, I'll be a bit disappointed.

    When he was doing the Djet, I asked my Dyno guy about Weber versus Dellorto. Both are good in his view & his only reason for prefering a Weber is that he has a better range of jets etc. for them as he uses them on more motors. So, by all means get David's Dellorto but first ensure that you (or your Dyno guy) know where to get the bits that will be being swapped around in setting it up. It is not just a matter of playing with a mixture screw or whatever.

    cheers! Peter

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,592

    Default BMC A twin webers !!

    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post

    The mini/BMC brigade is still split on whether DCOE Weber or dellorto offer any benefits over a properly tuned and maintained single 1.75 SU (the early mini's came out with a much smaller SU; the Cooper S and Clubman GT's got either 1.25 or 1.5 Twin's, the 1.75 didn't come out until the latter English minis after ours had finished).

    KB
    Hi,
    Not wanting to hijack this thread but check this out for a Mini BMC A series motor. Could be the ultimate set up.
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Mi...86301901299260
    I have never seen the like here. I doubt if it was 'home tuned'. Nice details.
    Jaahn

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi,
    Not wanting to hijack this thread but check this out for a Mini BMC A series motor. Could be the ultimate set up.
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Mi...86301901299260
    I have never seen the like here. I doubt if it was 'home tuned'. Nice details.
    Jaahn
    Siamesed inlet ports was a problem. It's hard to get enough fuel air mixture through such small ports.

    I recall my brother had success with a pair of 13/4 SUs. The lynx weber manifolds almost had grid lock with the back of the speedo. Possibly this is why the manifold shown uses two halves.

    Did the 1275 (Copper mini S) engines still have Siamesed ports?

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,366

    Default

    Rob,
    Yes they did.

    The split webers were popular in the 70's - these days you wouldn't be game to take a hacksaw to a Weber.

    Jaahn - google David Vizard with respect to Mini tuning and split webers - he was one of "the gods".

    Seen then, they have developed a special Cross flow head that mounts two DCOE webers at the front of the engine that protrude out the front of a mini bonnet (or need a special bonnet bulge made - google Arden Cross flow among others.


    KB
    KB


  22. #22
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,745

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Siamesed inlet ports was a problem. It's hard to get enough fuel air mixture through such small ports.

    I recall my brother had success with a pair of 13/4 SUs. The lynx weber manifolds almost had grid lock with the back of the speedo. Possibly this is why the manifold shown uses two halves.

    Did the 1275 (Copper mini S) engines still have Siamesed ports?
    the speedo is an issue; with the moke we inserted a "cave" into the firewall for the tubes and socks and moved the speedo rearwards to accomodate it.
    next version (to replace the swan neck manifold) will have to go further into the car and require a new cable for the speedo/odometer

    and yes they all have siamesed ports yet despite them can work well and yes the 8 port arden or the twin cam heads seem good kit but if i were going to fuss that much i think i'd go for a different motor as some have done

    cheers! peter
    Last edited by 4cvg; 23rd June 2012 at 02:49 AM.

  23. #23
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi,
    Not wanting to hijack this thread but check this out for a Mini BMC A series motor. Could be the ultimate set up.
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Mi...86301901299260
    I have never seen the like here. I doubt if it was 'home tuned'. Nice details.
    Jaahn


    Wow its amazing how much I've learnt about Mini's by posting a thread about Renault manifolds.

    Keep it up guys it keeps the post up the top, don't worry about hi jacking.

    Just wondering about this Escort carby, should I put that on ebay as a complete thing or break it up and sell the carby seperate?
    These days there's quite a bit of interest in Escorts for historic racing but I presume they would want twin carbs and my single manifold would be unless whereas the carby itself would be of interest to all makes.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    the speedo is an issue; with the moke we inserted a "cave" into the firewall for the tubes and socks and moved the speedo rearwards to accomodate it.
    next version (to replace the swan neck manifold) will have to go further into the car and require a new cable for the speedo/odometer

    and yes they all have siamesed ports yet despite them can work well and yes the 8 port arden or the twin cam heads seem good kit but if i were going to fuss that much i think i'd go for a different motor as some have done

    cheers! peter
    Peter Manton and al....

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,745

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Wow its amazing how much I've learnt about Mini's by posting a thread about Renault manifolds.

    Keep it up guys it keeps the post up the top, don't worry about hi jacking.

    Just wondering about this Escort carby, should I put that on ebay as a complete thing or break it up and sell the carby seperate?
    These days there's quite a bit of interest in Escorts for historic racing but I presume they would want twin carbs and my single manifold would be unless whereas the carby itself would be of interest to all makes.
    hello David, as you want to sell both & as they suit as a pair then I'd advertise as a package first & then split if there's no success. Remember that all the "bits" in the Dellorto have presumably been set up for the 1.6 Kent motor & would be changed for others. It might also be wise to ask around some of the tuners who still do this side draft stuff & find out who has Dellorto "bits" so that you can allay any buyer misgivings about not being able to set it up. Good luck, Peter

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •