Rx4 Timing belt change.
  • Help
Results 1 to 15 of 15
Like Tree4Likes

Thread: Rx4 Timing belt change.

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Blaxlands Flat NSW
    Posts
    42

    Default Rx4 Timing belt change.

    Has any one out there changed their own timing belt on a Rx4. I bought a kit complete from U.K. which was certainly a lot cheeper than here in NSW. However when I took the old belt off I found that the timing sprocket on the crankshaft did not have a key or a sprocket collet inserted. I contacted a Renault spares place in Brisbane and he suggested that they didn't use one and only relyed on the touque of the Bolt on the accessories pully "harmonic Balancer" can any one conferm this? Also the Warning Note in the manual suggests on the F4R engine 'it is essential to fit the crankshaft sprocket with an integrated cotter.' does anyone no what this is? I thought it may be a type of a key to hold the sproket in position.

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Romsey, VIC
    Posts
    2,349

    Default

    Yeah it keeps together by an extremely tight hamonic balancer bolt.
    2011 Renault Koleos manual petrol, yes it's boring, but not as boring as:
    2017 Renault Koleos auto

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Perth/West Australia
    Posts
    1,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by richtind View Post
    Has any one out there changed their own timing belt on a Rx4. I bought a kit complete from U.K. which was certainly a lot cheeper than here in NSW. However when I took the old belt off I found that the timing sprocket on the crankshaft did not have a key or a sprocket collet inserted. I contacted a Renault spares place in Brisbane and he suggested that they didn't use one and only relyed on the touque of the Bolt on the accessories pully "harmonic Balancer" can any one conferm this? Also the Warning Note in the manual suggests on the F4R engine 'it is essential to fit the crankshaft sprocket with an integrated cotter.' does anyone no what this is? I thought it may be a type of a key to hold the sproket in position.
    Careful now! Correct - there are no keys or dowels to align either the crankshaft or camshaft sprockets. Several (many) members have changed the timing belt on one of these engines. At first the design seems crazy, but in fact they use a very clever aligning system which is spot-on every time. But you will have to be careful now if you have already removed the crank sprocket. Don't let the crank or cams turn just yet. As you are now a bit in the poo, I'll give a quick solution, but as I am at work I haven't got time to give more info. My suggestions only - up to you what you end up doing.

    OK, the camshafts have a slot machined across the ends furthest from the sprockets. Accessed thru the 2 black plugs on end of head - you may have got spare plugs in the kit? These slots are aligned horizontally with each other when engine is at TDC. They are offset from centre, so at TDC No1 the slots are either above or below the cam centre, I forget which, but it is important. The slots are 5.0mm wide and a piece of flat steel machined 5.0mm thick and cut out to clear the head will be the aligning tool.
    Now the crankshaft has a slot in a web accessed through a 8.0mm dia hole in side of block down near the sump gasket line below the oil filter towards the clutch end of the engine. Hole is covered by a hex head or torx head screw, quite easy to see and remove. you need a piece of 8.0mm rod to poke in there and slip into the slot in the crank web when it is at TDC No 1.

    When the cams and crank are in the correct positions with the aligning tools you can then tighten the crank sprocket bolt to fix the positions. Remove the aligning tools before final tightening, hold the crank by another method while you give it the final torque.

    If you dont have the engine at TDC No1 at the moment - I would suggest you put the belt back on and tighten the crank sprocket temporarily with the covers etc still removed. Then slowly turn the engine until the cam slots line up, and fiddle with the crank until you get positive location of the aligning pin, and work from there. If you have already moved the crank you are in a bit more trouble, watch you dont turn one without the other or valves may contact.

    That's about all I can say - be careful. A Haynes manual is available for Scenic with the F4R engine which is reasonable for the job. Would be a good investment, explains how to adjust tensioner pulley too. Presume you got new pulleys and tensioner. In my opinion the plastic pulleys are more vulnerable than the belt itself - they must be replaced - or engine salad.

    Cheers.
    2004 Scenic I 2.0 auto (Hers)
    2016 Ford Territory (His)
    2004 WRX (Sunday car)

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    203

    Default

    Has any one out there changed their own timing belt on a Rx4.

    Yes some of us have done this with success.

    WARNING - DANGER WILL ROBERTSON Catastrophic failure imminent!!!

    Tread carefully, the WARNING that Chris offers above or you may have junked the head.

    If you are referring to the Haynes when you say ‘Manual’ it is fair enough to describe the steps needed to do this. - Do not deviate. - I have seen a dozed RX4’s in a Froggie specialist shop trying to undo the sad work by so called mechanics ( read Franchise operators as well as DIY’s ).

    Pull the plugs and check down the bores to establish how far you are out and tie the crank and cams back together with the old belt as Chris says above.

    If it resists you turning by hand, AND ONLY BY HAND - STOP.

    All is not lost but if you can’t find the indexing hole in the crankshaft and get the cam slots to line up so you can lock them together - it just might be.


    The cams were supposed to be locked together with bar described in the Haynes and the crank LOCKED with a dowel pin at the front of the engine where the GB meets the block (that's the cotter pin). The male torx nut that looks like it has no function. If you only use a 8mm pin be careful it doesn't pop out, I gave my Torx index pin away as I no longer have the RX4 but keeping the pin secured is desirable, find a suitable bolt and turn it down or file it to suit if you are going solo.

    Only when you have achieved the proper indexing should you spin the crank. Don't use the starter motor. As Chris says above the timing is 100% spot on and quite cleverly so. ONLY once you have indexed the crank and Cams should you undo the crank pulley bolt ( there is no point marking the timing belt pulley it is meaningless ) . If you can get an assistant to lock the starter ring gear against the GB Casing from below do this. Don’t rely on the dowel pin to hold the crank/ flywheel. A few F4R heads died this way when it went unnoticed that the dowel popped out and spanner monkeys just kept turning till valves met pistons.

    If you have the top and the bottom of the engine way out – stop digging the hole any deeper. Tell us where you are at.

    If your new kit does not have the black camshaft end caps at your battery box end of the cam housing you can pry the old ones out without damaging them, just tease them out with a flat bladed screw driver – worked for me the second time around.

    PM me if you need a few scans of the relevant section Sister has my Copy In Mermaid beach QLD, not too far away.

    Above all else, please.

    Stop – think - measure twice - cut once

    Good luck and let us know how you go.
    Last edited by sandgroper; 14th June 2012 at 09:57 PM. Reason: SP and manual Location
    93' 205GTi
    'don't force it son - use a bigger hammer'

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Yarrabilba, Queensland
    Posts
    2,759

    Default

    I'd neevr attempt the job as a home mechanic........there's a thread here somewhere I think from me from years ago about the tragedy of a mechanic F*76ing a job on my Rx4 up by not tightening the crankshaft bolt.
    Hence, I would hazard a guess, my Rx4 is the only one in the world with a woodruff key now in situ, hand made by a good friend who owns an engine machining shop in Brisbane.
    Second belt change since that fatefull one and all's good.

    I'm lazy and never read all the other posts but am sure the guys would have mentioned the timing tools you need for the job.
    I do knoww, speaking to a freind who does mechanical work as a second job, on Renaults, says the Scenic/Rx4 is much easier a belt job than the sedans are.

    Hope it all goes/went well for you.

    Chris.
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Blaxlands Flat NSW
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Thanks fellas, I failed to mention that I bought a CD rom of Renaults from UK on ebay and made up the tool for the end of the cams, I had turned the engine to the correct position and inserted the tool before I removed the belt and the crank shaft sproket. What had me baffled was no pin or sprocket collet as mentioned on other engines. This manual did not say anything about the keyway pin and the crankshaft does have a slot and the sprocket also has a slot, but I found no pin. This was my main concern as this is the only engine I have come accross that does not utilise a pin or a sprocket collet. Now hopefully I will be able to get it opperational and have the scenic back on the road. Cheers Rich T

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    203

    Default

    Excellent - Feew!!

    Do try and find the crank indexing hole for the 8mm dowel (cotter ) pin , locks the bottom of the engine so it canít go wrong when you lock the top with a camshaft bar .

    Look down near the radiator where the Gear Box meets the Block. You will see a little Torx ( male kind not the socket type ) bolt head, sits on the flange where the block face meet the GB, please use a dowel pin to lock the crank, donít free ball it..

    The screwdriver thing on the starter ring is to get a good purchase on the crank so you can bear down on the lower crank sprocket nut, as HKP iterated failing to do this up tight will see it slip in service = failure. If you take a look at the lower rear of the block when you take the bash plate off you will see an aperture to get a LARGE screwdriver in the teeth on the flywheel. Careful not to puncture the LH CV boot, the entire contents of the gearbox will come out. This is the nasty little CV on the Styer Putch transfer case that splits and kills the gearbox. If it looks sus think about changing it sooner rather than later. Aside from the retaining nut on the 5th gear coming loose this is the part that kills the 4x4 box.

    The engine is an Ďinterference typeí so valves will hit the pistons if they are not in sync. Interesting to know that the Crank sprocket has a key-way, never come across that. You can go ahead and mark the orientation of the sprocket if that is the case, don't get a tooth out - not sure there is any tolerance in valve protrusion into the piston stroke for that.

    Good luck, itís not a difficult job but a small error in procedure ends up in disaster. Just to put my mind at rest when I did a mates ( I was dumb enough to say I would help ) we left the spark plugs out until we had turned it over a few times by hand. Once you hit the starter motor itís too late if itís wrong.

    93' 205GTi
    'don't force it son - use a bigger hammer'

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Perth/West Australia
    Posts
    1,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by richtind View Post
    Thanks fellas, I failed to mention that I bought a CD rom of Renaults from UK on ebay Cheers Rich T

    Can you give some info on this CD ROM? Just for Megane or other models? Is it a comprehensive shop manual? For example does it cover auto trans overhaul? Or is it a Haynes manual on CD?

    If it is openly available - can you identify it for search purposes (ie, Title)?

    Thanks,

    Chris.
    2004 Scenic I 2.0 auto (Hers)
    2016 Ford Territory (His)
    2004 WRX (Sunday car)

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sheffield/Tasmania
    Posts
    632

    Default rx4 belt

    I have changed quite a few of these and have found the best thing to do is set the belt up as discribed by others, then before you tighten the crank pulley back on make a mark where the key way slot on the crank is and then make a key way slot in the pulley, only has to be a rough slot and make it wider than the crank slot so you can still do a fine adjustment before tightening the pulley what this does is if the pulley slips the key way will hold it and not let the engine self distruct
    if you check some of the uk forums its common for the air con pump to seize and cause the belt to slip as the crank tries to be stopped by the aircon pump then the whole thing just s**ts itself, once you have the key way in and a peice of key way steel slid in put a small dob of gasket silicon on it so it doesnt rattle in the slot and cause wear
    I do this to every f4r engine i have touched

  10. #10
    Administrator
    mistareno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,926

    Default

    Is this the same procedure for a 2.0 L Megane 2?

    I'm about to change a belt for my dad who just bought a Megane.

  11. #11
    Administrator
    mistareno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,926

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    Is this the same procedure for a 2.0 L Megane 2?

    I'm about to change a belt for my dad who just bought a Megane.
    Was thinking about purchasing this, as I'm sure I'll work on a Clio Sport or Megane/Scenic in the future -




    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RENAULT-S...item33776e4747

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Perth/West Australia
    Posts
    1,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    Was thinking about purchasing this, as I'm sure I'll work on a Clio Sport or Megane/Scenic in the future -
    It certainly looks the right stuff - the 2.0 litre is not mentioned but I think they would all be similar.

    The other main tool I remember was a Torque Angle gauge for tightening the harmonic balancer bolt, but you probably have one of those already. If not, mine was a Kincrome.

    The most difficult part for me was holding the crank while loosening and tightening the harm balancer bolt. (All instructions say not to use the aligning pin (in that kit) against the high torque required - only use as an aligner). Our Scenic has an alloy sump which extends to the bottom of the gearbox bell housing, which is great for strength, but prevents access to the ring gear for locking the crank. The only opening is if you removed the starter, which looks a nasty job and also still doesn't give good access as it is up at the back of the engine. All instructions I have seen show a removable plate covering the lower bell housing, which if that is what you have, allows access to lock the ring gear, no problem. But I had no access at all. After much humming and haaing, I drilled a hole through the bottom of the bell housing in line with the ring gear. IIRC it was 12 mm dia, drilled in 2 or 3 steps, it was easy to drill the alloy at that point. This made the job so easy as to be ridiculous - just get someone to hold a large screwdriver in there, it had good leverage, virtually no force required. Made me wonder why they don't have an access hole there, will save me ages next time. I will hunt through my photos and attach to this post - previously lost in the AF crash.

    2004 Scenic I 2.0 auto (Hers)
    2016 Ford Territory (His)
    2004 WRX (Sunday car)

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,214

    Default

    The harmonic balancer nuts was tight as F@#$ on my Toyota.

    So I copied the IMZFE special service tool.

    The 500m piece of bar is used to stop the crank turning while a socket and breaker bar are used on the nut.

    The harmonic balancer was tight on the shaft as well. So we made a puller.

    Not bad 4 hours all up not including time to make the tools.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rx4 Timing belt change.-sst1.jpg   Rx4 Timing belt change.-sst.jpg  

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    2,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    Was thinking about purchasing this, as I'm sure I'll work on a Clio Sport or Megane/Scenic in the future -




    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RENAULT-S...item33776e4747

    Does that kit include the 'cam end pulley tool" that slots onto the recess on the cam to allow removal of the cam pulley at the other end.
    I am trying to take the cam cover off a Cliosport 172 :{
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  15. #15
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Terranora
    Posts
    6

    Default Timing belt change RX4

    To hold the crank on a RX4 engine while tensioning up harmonic balancer bolt shove a decent size flat bladed screwdriver down the slot in the bell housing where the crank angle sensor mounts, beats drilling holes in housing. KB.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •