Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car - Page 7
  • Register
  • Help
Page 7 of 11 First ... 34567891011 Last
Results 151 to 175 of 264
Like Tree30Likes

Thread: Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car

  1. #151
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,744

    Default The Swinging Axles !!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Hmm! I think that you're right about the significance of the relationship of the C.G. & the R.C.. Mind you, even with one front wheel off the ground, one still has roll stiffness at the front & something is thus 'stopping the whole car rolling on to its side'. So, why not indeed try experimenting with roll stiffening the pivoting link? Yes, more weight & yes, more complication but it's not defeating the original purpose, just moderating it from zero roll stiffness to less roll stiffness than standard. As I said, make that roll stiffener adjustable & one ought to be able to find a happy relationship to the front roll stiffness (which could be lessened a bit if you wished). As remarked, it's an intriguing design & it'd be nice to see it developed a bit.
    Incidentally, if you do abandon it, the way my C.C. is mounted is nice for a road car (with road hazards) but for a race car it'd be possible to mount the support bracket more robustly than just off 2 transaxle bolts (with a light rear tether). With such a mount one could make the transverse leaf (or leaves) the main support spring. It also has zero roll stiffness. Then you could gain roll stiffness as desired to balance the front by means of a light "coilover" in the normal spring housing. Just a thought.
    cheers! Peter
    Hi
    I generally agree with Peters comments about the body roll and the roll stiffness. You have reduced the rear roll stiffness to nothing from the springs and the instantaneous resistance from the shockies is fed directly to the other side axle. Also there may be some negative roll resistance from the geometry of the swinging link as the car rolls and the swing axles and shockies change angles. The link pivot and the top shockie mounts are displaced vertically by a lot and the angles change lots. As you observed, the suspension travel is probably the only limit of roll at the back so the spring rate goes to infinity and the roll is fixed at max all the time.

    Advertisement


    IMHO the shockies should work to the body so the instantaneous loads are fed into the body for control of turn in and out as well as bumps. The springs can be linked to the body and between both axles in various combinations to give a variable roll stiffness in combination with the required spring rate to the body. Perhaps a compensator spring like Peters can be modified to give variable roll stiffness by the shape of the reaction plate on the gearbox. The contact point could move from side to side as it rolls. Z bars do not allow for a non linear rate or non linear resistance easily.

    Interesting to see someone who likes to push the boundaries and does the engineering in such a professional manner.
    Cheers Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 27th July 2013 at 10:40 PM.

  2. #152
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,826

    Default

    "Perhaps a compensator spring like Peters can be modified to give variable roll stiffness by the shape of the reaction plate on the gearbox. The contact point could move from side to side as it rolls"

    I don't follow that. One can certainly do things to have variable bump stiffness (it's a leaf spring arrangement after all) but how does one get anything but zero roll stiffness from the cc itself? In short, I don't get the bit about the reaction plate. Pic of my cc mount is below.

    Anyway, to revert to a cc or a z-bar is to abandon the existing design & I'd rather see Ross modify it to mollify its hassles.

    cheers! peter

    Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car-rear-strap-view.jpg

  3. #153
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,744

    Default Any advance ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    Thanks Steve and Peter

    Ill post some photos tomorrow of what I have decided to do.
    Hi Ross
    No pressure but have you had any thoughts.
    What's more important, racing the car or entertaining the Aussie Froggers ?

    Jaahn

  4. #154
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi Ross
    No pressure but have you had any thoughts.
    What's more important, racing the car or entertaining the Aussie Froggers ?

    Jaahn
    Sorry guys, my daily routine at the moment is up at 6.00am, feed all the animals, leave home at 7.00am, arrive back at 5.00pm, dinner, shed from 6.00pm till 9.00pm, an hour of TV and then off to bed. I know the hour of TV is a waste.

    I like the idea of a progressive swinging arm, something that initially provides zero roll stiffness and as the body rolls more becomes stiffer. I havent worked out how I can achieve such a thing without lots of complicated linkages and springs but definitely something to think about.

    At the moment my focus is to get the car going for a hillclimb in just over a week. I will be pushing it to get there but hopefully if things go right it will be all together this weekend with a more standard rear suspension. I havent totally given up on the swinging arm but I will definitely have to give it more thought.
    Ross:

    1989 Alpine GTA Twin Turbo
    1963 Renault R8
    1996 Peugeot 106 S16
    1967 NSU Prinz 1200TT
    1989 Peugeot 205 GTi

  5. #155
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    3,599

    Default

    Why don't you try driving it to the hill climb.
    If you've got too much traction, you haven't got enough horse power ...




    .2010 Holden Commodore Ute
    2001 Renault Sport Clio Cup 27 of 85
    1973 Alpine Renault A310/4 1600 VE

  6. #156
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 27of85 View Post
    Why don't you try driving it to the hill climb.
    HaHa took me a while.

    Bit far to push it.
    Ross:

    1989 Alpine GTA Twin Turbo
    1963 Renault R8
    1996 Peugeot 106 S16
    1967 NSU Prinz 1200TT
    1989 Peugeot 205 GTi

  7. #157
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,826

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    <snip>
    I like the idea of a progressive swinging arm, something that initially provides zero roll stiffness and as the body rolls more becomes stiffer. I havent worked out how I can achieve such a thing without lots of complicated linkages and springs but definitely something to think about.
    <snip>.
    OK, an idle thought or two from "left field":

    How about one of those pump up air bag supplementary springs used for (as I recall it) leaf sprung four wheel drives. (Sort of like a fat rubber cylinder.) Airbags are inherently progressive & you could (by changing resting pressure) set it how you like. It'd also be an easy thing to mount. In a similar way but without being able to set the range (except mechanically, by judicious mounting) how about a Mini rubber cone/pancake spring? - again mounted as a sort of a body/arm bumpstop somewhere.

    cheers! Peter
    Last edited by 4cvg; 4th August 2013 at 07:30 PM.

  8. #158
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,744

    Default Ideas !

    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    OK, an idle thought or two from "left field":

    How about one of those pump up air bag supplementary springs used for (as I recall it) leaf sprung four wheel drives. (Sort of like a fat rubber cylinder.) Airbags are inherently progressive & you could (by changing resting pressure) set it how you like. It'd also be an easy thing to mount. In a similar way but without being able to set the range (except mechanically, by judicious mounting) how about a Mini rubber cone/pancake spring? - again mounted as a sort of a body/arm bumpstop somewhere.

    cheers! Peter
    Hi
    These ideas have plenty of merit Peter. I didn't realise you were an 'idle leftie'

    The later Dauphines had "aerostable suspension". Fitting air bags like that and piping them together would give a suitable effect perhaps. I have tried shockies with air bags lots of years ago when they were popular. Worked ! Didn't fit so well.

    Or using the rocking beam and mounting the air bags or cone shaped rubber bumpers between it and the crossmember for roll resistance.

    I would probably use a leaf spring(or a pair foward and rear of the axle) and a curved shaped support plate so the point of contact moves quite a way to the outside as the car rolls. This would allow some ability to tune the system by playing with the curvature of the reaction plate and its overall final contact width also. It could all be above the gearbox too.

    You could use a very stiff z bar with very progressive springs as the links.

    I think the shockies should be mounted to the body independent of the way the springing works or the roll device. This also gives the option of using springs so just another combination to play with. Progressive springs are good to.

    Of course these are just concepts to provide thinking for Ross during that hour of TV. The devil is in the details, as always.
    jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 3rd August 2013 at 10:27 PM.

  9. #159
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Posts
    18,211

    Default

    Cone shaped rubber bumpers eh? Dr. Alex Moulton would be impressed. The ones he designed for the Mini had built in roll stiffness......
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  10. #160
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    380

    Default

    Ive had a thought on how I might improve the rear suspension without a lot of complication.

    Comments please, except comments about the quality of the drawing.

    Also some photos of the modified rear subframe Ive done for the next event, very much standard, just allows for the use of coilovers.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car-subframe-1.jpg   Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car-subframe-2.jpg  
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Ross:

    1989 Alpine GTA Twin Turbo
    1963 Renault R8
    1996 Peugeot 106 S16
    1967 NSU Prinz 1200TT
    1989 Peugeot 205 GTi

  11. #161
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Boonah Qld
    Posts
    2,585

    Default

    Gee a work bench without anything else on it. Just space to work. What a novel idea. I could move some stuff over if you need to fill it up.

  12. #162
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    Ive had a thought on how I might improve the rear suspension without a lot of complication.

    Comments please, except comments about the quality of the drawing.

    Also some photos of the modified rear subframe Ive done for the next event, very much standard, just allows for the use of coilovers.
    Hi Ross,
    You've been busy. Good looking mods to the crossmember. Should work OK. Easy to get to the shocky bolts.

    These mods to the rocking beam would be "easy" and address some of your shortcomings. A suitable spring would be difficult to find but a rubber item might be easier to find in a wrecking yard. The 70s Kombis had a good looking rear buffer by memory Even a sandwich engine mount with one plate cut off may work progressively on the round axle tube
    Still would not be my preferred option as I outlined but worth a try to see if it makes the difference. You have the energy. Good luck getting to the track this week.
    Jaahn
    PS some ideas.
    http://www.thebusstop.com.au/busstor...ar_68-79_pair/
    http://www.mackayrubber.com.au/Digit...cat/index.html
    Pages 17-21, 86, and lots of ideas between.
    http://www.airbagit.com/v/vspfiles/p...rBags_PAGE.htm
    Last edited by jaahn; 5th August 2013 at 09:11 PM.

  13. #163
    Fellow Frogger! bingham driver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Myers Flat
    Posts
    182

    Default

    Hi Ross, will it be strong enough without some sort of backbrace?
    Once I thought I was wrong but, I was mistaken

  14. #164
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,826

    Default

    Yep. My only inputs would be two:

    1. I do think that you will be playing around for a while getting the balance of front & rear roll stiffeness to be as you want it & unless you have an awful lot of variable rate springs to play with, that'll be difficult & expensive experimentation. I return to my thought of wanting the stiffness of whatever you use to be adjustable. That's one merit of the air bag idea - it's just a matter of inflation pressure. Given that you have a linear rate front spring, I've had second thoughts about a variable rate rear. I can't see that effectively building in roll oversteer is a merit yet that is the effect of a rear spring that increases rate under load.

    2. My other thought concerns placement of the auxiliary roll control device. One could put them as you have outlined or one could put them (with mounting brackets) such that the air bags, say, are effectively between lower diagonal arms & crossmember. As they won't be hugely stiff (you're not wanting mammoth roll resistance) I don't think that they would add over-great bending loads on those arms.

    cheers! Peter

  15. #165
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    romania
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Hi Ross!!! I'm happy your car is ready, it looks great. Thanks for inspire me, every time I drive my car I have a big smile on my face. I have decided to do my car when I have seen yours for the first time.

  16. #166
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    romania
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car-img083.jpg Hi Ross this is the rear assembly for my car, hope this helps. If I remember I have sent you some files in dwg. where you can find something similar drawings but the dimensions needs to be adjusted.

  17. #167
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    380

    Default

    Thanks Ollie, looks very impressive, looks quite similar to what Queron used to do on his Dauphines with the bracing under the gearbox, and yes you did send me the drawings.
    Ross:

    1989 Alpine GTA Twin Turbo
    1963 Renault R8
    1996 Peugeot 106 S16
    1967 NSU Prinz 1200TT
    1989 Peugeot 205 GTi

  18. #168
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    380

    Default

    Ive done about 5 or 6 events so far, all hillclimbs. The car is going very well, its taking me a bit of time to get confident with it but in the last couple of events I have felt much more confident and am now settings times quicker than the old Dauphine at its peak.

    So the wife asked me the other day what do you want for your birthday present so without hesitation I said graphics for the Dauphine. What do you think?

    The large graphics (white areas, black stripes, Renault symbols) were done by a local sign writer in vinyl and all the small stickers were from "I Say Ding Dong".

    Wasnt meant to be an exact copy of the factory A110's obviously, just loosely based on it with some ideas from the family and I
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car-20131207_170249.jpg   Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car-20131207_170515.jpg   Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car-20131207_170536.jpg   Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car-20131207_170728.jpg   Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car-20131207_170805.jpg   Ross's new Dauphine Racing Car-20131207_170837.jpg  

    J-man likes this.
    Ross:

    1989 Alpine GTA Twin Turbo
    1963 Renault R8
    1996 Peugeot 106 S16
    1967 NSU Prinz 1200TT
    1989 Peugeot 205 GTi

  19. #169
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    It's how I roll...Brisbane
    Posts
    33,614

    Default

    very well done Ross...

  20. #170
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    1,526

    Default

    Gee Ross, it did come out nicely. It looks the looks!!!

    Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  21. #171
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    1,722

    Default

    Very Nice Ross, really looks the part now.... !!!!!!

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

  22. #172
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,422

    Default

    Home run I'd say!
    KB


  23. #173
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    1,288

    Default

    J-man likes this.

  24. #174
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Tecoma, VIC
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Fat tyred Dauphines are really just a great looking car.
    J-man likes this.

  25. #175
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DRTDVL View Post
    Thanks Heath

    I saw you on the corner, one of the earlier events, Hiwi Rd near Cambridge, lots of fun.
    Ross:

    1989 Alpine GTA Twin Turbo
    1963 Renault R8
    1996 Peugeot 106 S16
    1967 NSU Prinz 1200TT
    1989 Peugeot 205 GTi

Page 7 of 11 First ... 34567891011 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •