Question on VICROADS new permit scheme
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Alastair Browne's Avatar
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    Default Question on VICROADS new permit scheme

    I see there's a fellow offering for sale a green R8 with step roof for about $4000 in Melbourne. He is suggesting that it would be possible to register it under the Revised VICROADS Permit Scheme. Is this possible in VIC with a highly modified car? This car has a 1400cc engine.

    It would not be acceptable in NSW which specifically does not allow cars on its scheme to be highly modified unless it was a period modification and readily available at the time of production.

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    Someone enlighten me, please.

    Alastair

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Just get a roadworthy and front up to whatever club you are a member of. Who would have a clue what "original" is

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  3. #3
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    And if you are in NSW it is all irrelevant anyway.Some good info on VicRoads website for those who are in Vic ,more responsibility for the club in reporting but better usage for the club member.

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pclio View Post
    And if you are in NSW it is all irrelevant anyway.Some good info on VicRoads website for those who are in Vic ,more responsibility for the club in reporting but better usage for the club member.

    Peter
    Maybe not so irrelevant. There is talk of making it a national code, so we are watching with interest and eager to learn more on the ins and outs of your schemes (your being SA and VIC).
    KB


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    Contact your RCC club plate registrar to determine the specifics for your club. Some clubs run close to the RTA rules, others may have additional conditions.

    Here is a link to the Council of Motor Clubs NSW site with further info

    http://www.councilofmotorclubs.org.a...l-registration
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    Fellow Frogger! MIKEEE's Avatar
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    CH permits in Vic do not explicitly address modifications

    Planning to join the Mexicans Al?

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    Under the new reg's there is space for CH vehicles and SR vehicles. Obviously the bulk of SR vehicles will be the Hot Rod fraternity but that does not exclude modified vehicles that aren't totally butchered. I'm not sure whether the owner of an SR vehicle will need to belong to one of the street rod clubs, although my gut feeling is that all that Vic Roads expect is a recognised car club membership. A recognised car club must be one that is an incorporated body with membership of one of the umbrella organizations eg AOMC
    Last edited by Ron Boulton; 12th January 2011 at 12:18 AM.
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    Fellow Frogger! Alastair Browne's Avatar
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    Hi Mikeee

    Thanks for the info on modifications in Vic. Victoria would be my second favourite state and I shall be there for the RACV Fly the Flag Tour in March yet again but in the 16TS this time.

    When the HCRS Rules first came into being in NSW I was a great fan of them but now I see how SA and Vic work their scheme, I think it could be better for people who like to run their car on a day of their choosing rather than the rigid formula of club runs etc.

    I'd also like to see Australia adopt the UK policy of once the car is over a certain age, then you do not have to pay for rego at all and can run whenever you want. The insurers are on to a good thing there as the UK people with classic cars hardly go over 10 miles from their homes and for 8 months the cars are in hibernation.

    Alastair

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    Fellow Frogger! G4ME's Avatar
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    Default RACV Tour

    Hi Al,

    Forget the RACV tour. Come down to Melbourne for the Renault RoundUp.
    Feb 20th at Docklands. It's gunna be a ripper this year.

    Cheers...Paul
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  10. #10
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    Default From VicRoads

    How will it change?
    Under the new scheme permit holders will no longer be restricted to club sanctioned activities when using their vehicles. Vehicles will be able to be used at any time for any purpose. However, they will be restricted to a total of90 days use a year. Club financial members will be able to apply for either a 90 day permit or a 45 day permit depending on how much use they expect to make of their vehicles over a 12month period. If a person obtains a 45 day permit but later decides that this is not enough, another 45 day permit may be purchased later on. However, no-one will be allowed to obtain a permit to drive their vehicle for more than 90 days each year.
    How will it operate?
    A logbook will be issued to permit holders to record the use of the vehicle over the permit period. Vehicles will be able to be used without a logbook entry within 100 metres of the vehicle’s garage address. A windscreen label will be issued to assist in the identifying vehicles operating without a current permit. VicRoads may suspend or cancel a permit if the permit holder fails to comply with the permit conditions or engages in conduct which threatens public safety or undermines the integrity of the permit scheme. Clubs will be required to sign an Agreement with VicRoads that they meet certain obligations including that they notify VicRoads if they become aware of or reasonably suspect a pattern of incorrect use of a log book by one of its members. If this is not done, VicRoads will be able to revoke the club’s approval to be part of the scheme.
    What about inspection standards and vehicle definitions as referred to in last year’s Discussion Paper?
    It is expected that these changes, which include a new street rod inspection scheme and improved definitions of ‘replica’ and ‘modified’ vehicles, will be implemented after February 2011.
    How will the changes be introduced?
    In the lead up to February 2011 all current permit holders will be issued with a free 90 day logbook. The logbook will be able to be used until the current permit expires. It can be used for a maximum of 90 days irrespective of the permit expiry date. It will be a requirement that the current permit be carried with the logbook at all times. No windscreen label will be issued until the current permit is renewed.
    Will there be changes to number plates?
    Yes, ‘Slim-line’ club permit number plates will now be available.

    December 2010
    VRPIN02732/11.10
    Revised Club Permit Scheme
    Changes to Victoria’s Club Permit Scheme will come into effect on 1 February 2011
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    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Boulton View Post
    Under the new reg's there is space for CH vehicles and SR vehicles. Obviously the bulk of SR vehicles will be the Hot Rod fraternity but that does not exclude modified vehicles that aren't totally butchered. I'm not sure whether the owner of an SR vehicle will need to belong to one of the street rod clubs, although my gut feeling is that all that Vic Roads expect is a recognised car club membership. A recognised car club must be one that is an incorporated body with membership of one of the umbrella organizations eg AOMC


    Ron, modified vehicles is something the club needs to discuse and get clear.
    Example:
    My brother Steve wants to put his red 750 on club plates, its been on full registration since it was built about 1980, 30 years ago with all R10 running gear and R12 engine. Eng capacity has gone from 750cc to 1289cc over the 10% rule but 30 years ago and the eng number is registered to it.
    Yes its highly modified with front radiator, 4 wheel discs and much bigger engine but is a safe reliable daily driver.
    What is it, a classic historic or a street rod?

    Chris Jones R12G classic rally car is the same, its currently on CH plates buts its a replica Gordini not a real one, you've seen it, park it next to a real one and only the chassis number gives it away but it is a highly modified R12 not a Gordini.

    I think the club needs to clarify whats aloud and whats not, I feel that I know Renaults well enough to say whats safe and what isn't but I'm not the final say.
    David Cavanagh

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    What about Straight LPG Turbocharged Fuegos with big brakes and lowered suspension?

    It came from the factory that way....honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Ron, modified vehicles is something the club needs to discuse and get clear.
    Example:
    My brother Steve wants to put his red 750 on club plates, its been on full registration since it was built about 1980, 30 years ago with all R10 running gear and R12 engine. Eng capacity has gone from 750cc to 1289cc over the 10% rule but 30 years ago and the eng number is registered to it.
    Yes its highly modified with front radiator, 4 wheel discs and much bigger engine but is a safe reliable daily driver.
    What is it, a classic historic or a street rod?

    Chris Jones R12G classic rally car is the same, its currently on CH plates buts its a replica Gordini not a real one, you've seen it, park it next to a real one and only the chassis number gives it away but it is a highly modified R12 not a Gordini.

    I think the club needs to clarify whats aloud and whats not, I feel that I know Renaults well enough to say whats safe and what isn't but I'm not the final say.

  13. #13
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    What about Straight LPG Turbocharged Fuegos with big brakes and lowered suspension?

    It came from the factory that way....honest.
    Hey I believe him, Cops never lie
    David Cavanagh

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    Fellow Frogger! G4ME's Avatar
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    Default Club plates

    You wouldn't believe the conversations I have had on who can register all sorts of weird and wonderful things.
    If it's a stock standard Renault on club plates then no issue. But as Dave says how do we deal with Steve's 750 or the Fuego with punch?
    At the end of the day the club is responsible for saying this car is ok so we just need to give some thought to our own guidelines so we don't ruin it for everyone.

    Here's an example. If a member wants to register an old Ford Ambulance on club plates what do we do?. I'm not sure it's in the spirit of the plate system but it's really up to the Committee to form a policy with guidance from Vicroads.

    But everything normal will still be fine we just need to give some thought.

    Cheers..>Paul
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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    I do hope QLD takes up this 90 day historic registration deal, although my two cars that are currently on our near useless scheme are both quite modified and are not pre 1949 to fit into the street rod category. The outcome will be interesting.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4ME View Post
    You wouldn't believe the conversations I have had on who can register all sorts of weird and wonderful things.
    If it's a stock standard Renault on club plates then no issue. But as Dave says how do we deal with Steve's 750 or the Fuego with punch?
    At the end of the day the club is responsible for saying this car is ok so we just need to give some thought to our own guidelines so we don't ruin it for everyone.

    Here's an example. If a member wants to register an old Ford Ambulance on club plates what do we do?. I'm not sure it's in the spirit of the plate system but it's really up to the Committee to form a policy with guidance from Vicroads.

    But everything normal will still be fine we just need to give some thought.

    Cheers..>Paul
    In Steve's case, history is on his side, if he tried to register the same car today he would need to have an engineers ticket before VicRoads would even look at it - then it would have to go over the pits with all of the hassles that this can involve.
    Richard's is a vehicle which may or may not require a ticket, given that the Turbo model was available O/S. The LPG is covered by seperate regulation and ticket but suspension mod's may require an engineer's ticket.
    From a club point of view the big worry is the Ford Amulance - we would be asking our club scrutineers to make judgements which may be outside their area of expertise. One of the problems for the whole car club community may be those who decide to go club shopping on the grounds that this club has easier (lower) standards of scrutineering than that club. I can see the time when all clubs will need to sight a RWC on a periodic basis. Several clubs already do this as it eases the pressure on club officials.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Boulton View Post
    In Steve's case, history is on his side, if he tried to register the same car today he would need to have an engineers ticket before VicRoads would even look at it - then it would have to go over the pits with all of the hassles that this can involve.
    Richard's is a vehicle which may or may not require a ticket, given that the Turbo model was available O/S. The LPG is covered by seperate regulation and ticket but suspension mod's may require an engineer's ticket.
    From a club point of view the big worry is the Ford Amulance - we would be asking our club scrutineers to make judgements which may be outside their area of expertise. One of the problems for the whole car club community may be those who decide to go club shopping on the grounds that this club has easier (lower) standards of scrutineering than that club. I can see the time when all clubs will need to sight a RWC on a periodic basis. Several clubs already do this as it eases the pressure on club officials.
    Ron, Rule one, in the case of the Ford Ambulance they would need to a be known club member wouldn't they? Not just join to jump on the CH bandwagon.

    Example: I'd like to put my 403 on CH, me as a known RCCV member I hope that won't be a problem.
    My Father wouldn't mind doing the same with his Porsche, we are both well known (and in his case, respected) club members so that should count instead of someone looking for the cheapest club.

    I think in Dads case its unfair to make him join the Porsche club when he's been an RCCV member for years. My 2c worth.
    David Cavanagh

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    While I agree that it would be unfair to make some one join another club that they may not wish to join there is still the issue of whether the Renault club membership has the necessary expertise to tell the age and or originality of a Porche or Ford Ambulance for that matter. But then what about clubs that have members with a very broad range of vehicle makes. I would hope that this does not become overly beuracratic with appointed experts for each model and extra paper work just to have ones vehicle authenticated.

    The current Queensland historic registration is almost useless, if you have a number of club registered cars. There is often not enough events of interest to ensure each car can be used on a regular basis. I would like to drive my club car just to visit friends or for a Sunday drive something that is currently not allowed.

    While I would like very much to have the UK system of no registration payments after 30 years I think that their situation is quite different to ours. Keeping cars on the salty roads of UK for 30 years does require quite a lot of maintenance and so they are not as common. Where as in Australia I am sure that there are many easily repairable cars available that are 30 years old. Remember that is 1981 models.
    Perhaps 40 years would better fit our conditions.

  19. #19
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    While I agree that it would be unfair to make some one join another club that they may not wish to join there is still the issue of whether the Renault club membership has the necessary expertise to tell the age and or originality of a Porche or Ford Ambulance for that matter. But then what about clubs that have members with a very broad range of vehicle makes. I would hope that this does not become overly beuracratic with appointed experts for each model and extra paper work just to have ones vehicle authenticated.

    The current Queensland historic registration is almost useless, if you have a number of club registered cars. There is often not enough events of interest to ensure each car can be used on a regular basis. I would like to drive my club car just to visit friends or for a Sunday drive something that is currently not allowed.

    While I would like very much to have the UK system of no registration payments after 30 years I think that their situation is quite different to ours. Keeping cars on the salty roads of UK for 30 years does require quite a lot of maintenance and so they are not as common. Where as in Australia I am sure that there are many easily repairable cars available that are 30 years old. Remember that is 1981 models.
    Perhaps 40 years would better fit our conditions.


    I hear what your saying Sunroof. I'm RCCV's club plate inspector and I've been around early model 911's most of my life so inspecting the old mans car wouldn't be a problem for me. However, a Ford Ambulance would be something I know nothing.
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    I feel your pain, Dave.

    I'm the Permits Registrar for the Mini Club.

    We've taken a simple approach which puts the responsibility for the decision away from the Club and puts it squarely on a RWC tester. Consequently we require that any car presented for Club permit under the Mini Club must have a current RWC.

    By doing this, a modified car has to satisfy the Vicroads licensed inspector rather than be certified as safe by someone in the Club. We felt that if a Club officer had to do the certification this would put unfair pressure on said officer in the event of awkward questions being asked.

    A by product of this is that we'll accept any vehicles under the Club, but all are subject to the above. This means that a tow car that's only used to transport a Trailer Queen from show to show is eligible, as long as it's over 25 years old and roadworthy.

    I guess there are always going to be grey areas, and it's notable that the new rules also put the responsibility of reporting a car that is clearly in breach of the regs squarely on the certifying Club.

    Overall though, I reckon this new Scheme is a huge step forward in allowing owners of Classic cars a bit more flexibility.

    I also reckon we're going to see some interesting interpretations and hear some eloquent discussions over the next year!

    Cheers, Pottsy
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  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! Alastair Browne's Avatar
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    In NSW we have the option of a 'club inspector' of vehicles, that is, someone from the Club or, just get a Pink Slip (RWC). The RCCA chooses the Pink Slip option for a few reasons not least of which is some goat in the club suing the 'inspector' who said his car was roadworthy when it wasn't according to the Police or RTA.

    We have cars in the Club which are not Renaults so the above option gets around the different car issue.

    I still like the 90 day rule, though.

  22. #22
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    Hi all,
    I'm actually a member of Citroen Classic Owners Club of Australia ( CCOCA ) and we have a wide range of cars in our club - from 1920 up to Citroen SM Maserati so our plate inspector has a big job. If he is unhappy that he has the skills to run a safety chack on the car he can refuse to issue a permit and then the owner can default to getting a RWC instead - either is ok for Vic roads.

    The issue of allowing other make cars to join a club to get a red plate is another issue. In principal the owner should go to the club that looks after that marque of car in my opinion. The only exception could be for say a Panhard for example that is French and was at one time owned by Citroen ( as was Maserati) and no club network.

    I can't see any good reason to accept members with different make cars to to help them out. They are most likely not going to contribute to the host club in any meaningful way. We had one non Citroen car join CCOCA years ago to get a red plate and we never saw the owner again. So it was a FAIL as far as I am concerned.

    Hawk

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    With regard to modified vehicles, it is all a little unlclear until the full details are released in February by VicRoads.

    If the scheme follows what was in trhe discussion paper, it would appear that any vehicle built after 1969 and modified beyond VSI8 will require a VASS certificatefrom a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory .

    February should clarify things somewhat.

    Below is the original discussion paper which does discuss the issues raised by many, but it may just complicate things as it isn't policy.

    http://www.aomc.asn.au/publications/...ochure_WEB.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Boulton View Post
    In Steve's case, history is on his side, if he tried to register the same car today he would need to have an engineers ticket before VicRoads would even look at it - then it would have to go over the pits with all of the hassles that this can involve. .

    I registered my Floride two weeks ago, and you could say it also is highly modified, 850cc to 1250cc engine, drum brakes to discs all round, fuel tank from rear to boot in front, so on.
    When it was inspected at VICROADS he asked me whats non original, i told him all the things above, no engineers certificate or anything else was asked for. In half an hour I was in and out minus $900.
    John
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    Default Rwc

    Very good discussion guys.
    Now you see the dilemma the club is in and how I need to reign in the excitement at the RCCV before we set a policy.
    Judging by the discussion here we may need to have some sort of hybrid approach possibly as follows:
    1. All standard Renaults be inspected by our club inspector
    2. All non standard Renaults can be inspected by our club inspector but he can call for a RWC if he feels it is out of his scope or capabilities or he has concerns around the level of roadworthiness
    3. All non Renaults can be put on club plates with an RWC by someone that has current RCCV membership for 2 or more years (this stops the CH plate shoppers)
    4. Special vehicles as considered appropriate by the Committee (this covers my ambulance man as he has been a members since day 1)

    My concern is the second last point. As I don't want to turn away a guy who drags his R12/16 out of the shed, joins the club and wants CH plates. On this sort of occurence I would invoke rule 4.
    Do we limit the number of CH plates one owner can have? Surely not in the spirit for someone to have a fleet of CH cars but then that doesn't cater for our collectors that may need multiple.

    Keep the healthy discussion coming guys. I'm interested in everyones views and experiences here.

    Cheers...Paul
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