Leaking Fuego Turbo petrol tank
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  1. #1
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    Default Leaking Fuego Turbo petrol tank

    Have previously had this problem and thought it was fixed using PC Metal recommended by one of our members. Now found it is leaking and discovered it has a slight hair line fracture on the RHS as you face the rear of the car. The tank is different to a normal Fuego GTX with the fuel pickup on the same side as the fuel filler pipe and return line via the fuel sender. So using one of these to replace it is not really an option because of the different plumbing. I suspect it will now have to be repaired by a reputable welder or have a stainless steel one made. I also suspect venting is an issue as vapours are expelled with a whoosh as you open the petrol cap. Have previously fitted an extra line to a charcoal filter a la a normal Fuego which I thought would fix this but something's not working right - perhaps the in line valve is not allowing vapours to escape? Can anyone throw any light on this issue and whether they have had a stainless steel tank made to fit a Fuego?

    bazzamac

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  2. #2
    bob
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    G'day,

    old fugs here were pressurised tank, modded by factory to make non-pressurised by drilling out valve I think - IS here somewhere about it, see if we can find it....

    cheers,
    Bob

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    I must admit my expertise doesn't extend to Fugs, but why the pressurised fuel tank? Is it something to do with the turbo set up?

    The tank should be able to be repaired by any competent radiator repairer. Explain that it is a pressurised system and will require testing after welding. Hopefully somewhere in and around Canberra there is such a place. I find that the harder the request the more enthusiastic a good repairer is to rise to the challenge.

    Best of luck.

    Cheers,
    Bluey

  4. #4
    bob
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    Default Fix tank pressure problem

    G'day,

    here are factory mod notes.

    cheers,
    Bob
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #5
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    Have previously had this problem and thought it was fixed using PC Metal recommended by one of our members. Now found it is leaking and discovered it has a slight hair line fracture on the RHS as you face the rear of the car. The tank is different to a normal Fuego GTX with the fuel pickup on the same side as the fuel filler pipe and return line via the fuel sender. So using one of these to replace it is not really an option because of the different plumbing. I suspect it will now have to be repaired by a reputable welder or have a stainless steel one made. I also suspect venting is an issue as vapours are expelled with a whoosh as you open the petrol cap. Have previously fitted an extra line to a charcoal filter a la a normal Fuego which I thought would fix this but something's not working right - perhaps the in line valve is not allowing vapours to escape? Can anyone throw any light on this issue and whether they have had a stainless steel tank made to fit a Fuego?

    bazzamac
    Something seems a bit odd here. The tank is cracked yet BUILDS UP PRESSURE?

    I do know petrol leaks like this are a long term source of frustration unless you fix them properly.

    Are you absolutely sure the apparent "crack" really is a leak? I really struggle a bit to understand how it leaks from a crack and builds up pressure at the same time.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Something seems a bit odd here. The tank is cracked yet BUILDS UP PRESSURE?

    I do know petrol leaks like this are a long term source of frustration unless you fix them properly.

    Are you absolutely sure the apparent "crack" really is a leak? I really struggle a bit to understand how it leaks from a crack and builds up pressure at the same time.

    Cheers
    Imagine a smaller (tighter) crack, John.

    Jo

  7. #7
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Imagine a smaller (tighter) crack, John.

    Jo
    I guess so Jo. A bit strange nonetheless. I guess I"ve been spoiled, never having had a Renault fuel tank leak issue that wasn't a split pipe or obvious (rust on the R16TS tank top). Any smells I've had were pungent and from small leaks but they never built up pressure in the tank.

    It definitely is the sort of thing to fix properly though. I had a really frustrating year with the CX until I found the leaks in the tank then later the hidden (and leaking) fuel tank breather pipe and then the hidden and leaking filler cap gasket. But it never built up pressure when leaking.

    Nevertheless I take your point.

    Frustrating things, fuel leaks.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  8. #8
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    Icon7 Quite easy to solder a patch on a cracked tank and strengthen it.

    Bazzamac

    I have fixed several fuego tanks. I did post up pictures of the method used, you remove the tank from the car and drain it thoroughly, clean up around the crack in the tank, then use (preferably) a large electric soldering iron (Birko?) and tin the surface with solder and flux, to give a nice shiny coating of solder, cut a patch from a piece of galvanized iron of either the same thickness as the tank or a little bit thicker, make sure the patch extends clear of the cracking and stressed area. In my experience the cracks are often near the support bands and tank flexing and the weight of the spare bumping up and down against the tank, causes stress crack, some are around corners of the tank, so you need to make the patch fit the bend of the tank, round the edges of the patch, it will hold better in place. Other cracks form where the inner baffles are spot welded and they crack away in service.

    When you have tinned the mating surface of the patch with solder, you simply put the patch in place with solder to solder (tinned) surface, hold it in place with a the blade of a screw driver or similar and apply the heat from the soldering iron, this will sweat the solder together and you can add a little extra solder to make a nice neat and almost everlasting repair.

    No need to fill the tank with water but the soldering heat will expel some petrol vapour from the tank inlets and exits. Just make sure to be well clear of any naked flames, the electric soldering iron wont provide any ignition point. I use the large electric iron as you need a good constant heat source to sweat the solder evenly and make a good repair.

    So far none of my repairs have ever let me down, or needed resoldering.

    Worst part is dropping the tank and removing it, the Haynes manual describes the procedure and, locating and removing/refitting correctly the tubes at the top of the tank requires a bit of patience and care.

    PM me with an email address and I think my computer may be capable of sending pictures that are stored on my computer (I hope)

    Ken

    If all else fails bring the tank with you to Melbourne, and I will do the repair under your supervision!!

  9. #9
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    Thanks Ken. Will PM my email address.

    Cheers

  10. #10
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    Thanks Bob. Really appreciate the mod notes and will follow them after the tank repair. In response to others, there was definite tank pressure after removing the cap despite the leak - a minor hair line split I guess was not enough to relieve the pressure.

  11. #11
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    Default petrol tank reoair

    Hi for many years now I have had to repair 17 fuel tanks.never in the same place twice. As Ken has already discribed how its done the only diferance that I found was to use brass was also a good meaterial to use as a patch,as it does not rust & is easy to solder.If not shore it is leaking at the splite spray the area with black paint & you will see if petrol is leaking under presure.
    david

  12. #12
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    Happy to report that the leak in my Fuego Turbo petrol tank has been fixed. Took it down to my local exhaust man last Monday and he hit the hairline crack with his mig and, after a little pop from detonating residual fuel in the tank, it was fixed. Tested it with fuel in the tank and a little talcum powder and all looked good. Since put into the car and again no sign of a leak. Also drilled out the valve mentioned in the Renault mod notice and no back pressure is evident. So I think the problem is solved and thanks everyone for your advice on the issue.

    bazzamac

  13. #13
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    where was the crack, a fatigue one to do with the baffles or in the top/side of the tank?

    Your repair guy was gamer than I would be in doing the repair with the mig - I'd have been worried about more than just a pop!! - But all is well it seems.

    Ken

  14. #14
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    Hi Ken

    The crack was in the bottom half of the tank on the RHS as you look at the rear on a curve but no where near the retaining straps. There was only a little fuel in the tank and the guy who repaired it had experienced the pop before and the tank was open with no fuel sender etc attached. Must say it was only a minor pop.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    Hi Ken

    The crack was in the bottom half of the tank on the RHS as you look at the rear on a curve but no where near the retaining straps. There was only a little fuel in the tank and the guy who repaired it had experienced the pop before and the tank was open with no fuel sender etc attached. Must say it was only a minor pop.
    Amazing he didn't blow up the entire suburb with such frivolity.

    Had the old tank pressure problems plauge the fuego.
    It did my head in because when the hoses were removed and air blown through, there was no obstruction and venting occured, yet under operating conditions, the pressure in the tank was not equalising to atmospheric.

    So after pulling the filler neck with attatched valve out, I was a little perplexed as to what i had in my car, as it was a one way valve, not a two way valve.

    It appears to be a float switch. As fuel enters the chamber the float rises and its cone shaped 'needle' blocks the seat. I assume this is to try and stop liquid fuel traveling down to the carbon can.

    Mine was staying blocked with pressure, so i simply filed a small slit in the needle to allow a small amount of pressure equalisiation to occur.The needle and seat are still functioning, but the seal is not 100% like it was
    SO far, so good and I've gone back to a sealed filler cap, and no spillage .With no more spillage I can drive with the windows open again.
    It is amazing how much fuel can spill out a 1mm hole in the filler cap, and how long that spilled fuel can stink up the car.


    Jo
    Last edited by jo proffi; 17th September 2011 at 09:07 AM.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    What I have done when welding a tank is fill it with the Migshield gas, and then tape up the outlets. The oxygen left inside is only a few percent and ignition will not take place. Exhaust gas run through the tank will also work as a well running car will only emit 1% oxygen.
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  17. #17
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    most interesting. i am coming ever more to the opinion that the exploding fuel tank idea is actually a myth.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    most interesting. i am coming ever more to the opinion that the exploding fuel tank idea is actually a myth.
    Let's write to myth busters and ask for a segment. ? I really like to seen that beret headed ponce have his hat blown off.

    Although, I don't fancy (nor condone) the concept of mig welding in a freshly emptied tank without other precautions being taken.

    The science says you would have to a bloody idiot to attempt it.

    But... I stopped a an exhaust fitter welding a bracket to 504 fuel tank many years ago.

    I guess most "brave" exhaust fitters are young.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    most interesting. i am coming ever more to the opinion that the exploding fuel tank idea is actually a myth.
    Don't really know if it is relevant, but a young chap just outside off Toowoomba decapitated himself oxy cutting the top off an empty grease drum a few years back.

    The soldering iron method described by Ken is the way I have done them.

    Terry

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    Quote Originally Posted by tasgill View Post
    Don't really know if it is relevant, but a young chap just outside off Toowoomba decapitated himself oxy cutting the top off an empty grease drum a few years back.

    The soldering iron method described by Ken is the way I have done them.

    Terry
    For heavens sake don't start this again welding petrol tanks


  21. #21
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    For heavens sake don't start this again
    I knew someone would take the bait.


    Jo

  22. #22
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    safer to weld it while full rather then empty anyway

    fill the tank with nitrogen, it will never blow
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    most interesting. i am coming ever more to the opinion that the exploding fuel tank idea is actually a myth.
    I have actually had a tank blow up on me once about 20 years ago, and so am much more careful by filling the tank with inert gas before starting repairs. In that case I had washed out the tank with water and detergent, let it dry out and then filled an inch or two of water in the bottom whilst repairing the filler neck with an LP gas soldering set up like I used for soldering a group of earths together in my electrical work.

    Anyway it went bang and leapt about 5M off the ground, I fell backwards and it fell back in the same spot as it left. Given that it weighed about 15Kg with the water in the bottom I am glad it didn't land on me. The tank ended up very rounded from its original rectangular shape and was not able to be repaired or refitted.

    About 30 years ago my father was cutting up a very old 1000 Gallon diesel tank over on Moreton Island that had not been used in 20 years, and had holes you could put your fist through with no actual fuel in the bottom with an oxy, and it blew lifting it high into the air ( he guessed about 10 M). A long time before OH&S. Fortunately no one was hurt.

    So yes they can blow up.
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Sorry, back on topic....


    So i did the mods to my tank breather and took a long trip on a hot day to test her out.

    Boy oh boy, that was a mistake.

    Turns out the petrol fuemes were so strong with the windows open that i had to choose between windows shut and bloody hot with fresh air from the vent, or nice and cool with strong petrol fumes sucked in from the back.
    Oh, and I had my mom in the car constantly reminding me that her i30 had climate control and no smells.

    Today when i got home, there was a puddle under the muffler at the rear, so i pulled the whole rig out again, to discover the fuel hose from the float valve to the metal pipe had a crack in it and was responsible for the smell and the puddle.

    Now that that has been replaced, no more fuel smells.

    Feel like a winner today.
    Felt like a looser driving along in 30 degree heat with no Ac and the windows shut.


    Jo

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