fuego gearbox oil leak
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Default fuego gearbox oil leak

    My 'up until now' perfectly clean and dry fuego has started dropping oil from the gearbox.

    My my measure its a big leak, about one drop per hour, so parking in nice clean parking spots is no longer an option without raising the ire of the owner, and sooner than later it is going to start getting low on gearbox oil.

    I can put up with some things like slow electric windows and a rattle here and there, but constantly monitoring my gearbox, whilst driving an oil slick on wheels around is not one of those things thats on my agenda.

    It seems to be coming out the selector input shaft.
    Is there a quick fix for this seal or is it one of those pull the gearbox out and remove the diff type of jobs???
    I can't for the life of me see how to remove the shaft or seal.


    If its a 'pull the box out' job, thats fine because the box is a bit worn and the clutch is very much on its last legs. The obligitory rear main seal is starting to leak a little too, no doubt not helped by my propensity to sit on rev limiter.
    I have a new valeo clutch sitting in the cupbord, and one of the donor fuego's has a ripper box (probably has a new clutch too), the memorial BarryG engine crane is rearing and ready to go, and a lot of spare time is at my lesure, so if there is no quick easy fix to this leak, I'll take the option of pulling the entire drive train out and replacing everything except the engine.

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    Jo

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Jo, I reckon if you've got time on your hands now and have all the required goodies on hand, I would swap the gearbox over if it's a good one, do the rear main and clutch now because even if the seal was easy to do, you may need to do the clutch down the track when you possibly may not have time to do it then
    cheers,

    John

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-man View Post
    Jo, I reckon if you've got time on your hands now and have all the required goodies on hand, I would swap the gearbox over if it's a good one, do the rear main and clutch now because even if the seal was easy to do, you may need to do the clutch down the track when you possibly may not have time to do it then
    Yes, thats my leaning.
    The most anyoying thing about the clutch now is it doesn't quite have enough travel to allow change downs to 2nd gear without an annoying grind.
    If I tighten the cable up more, it will start to engage the clutch, so the clutch issue has actually made the car a pig to drive, as part of the fun of the fuego is its 2nd gear.
    A year of crunching and slamming cant be good for the box either.

    Jo

  4. #4
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    Jo
    The manual talks about inserting a lip type oil seal on the upper part of the casing, that is held in place by a C clip as an external to the casing seal.

    It might be worth having a closer look to see if that is the source of the drip and if it is rig up a new seal rubber or whole seal.

    The other area that they talk about an oil seal is the speedo drive oil seal - they talk about using a BVi 905-02 tool designed to make that job easier

    NG3 box BV NG manual pages 36 and 37 (77 11 073 487) there is also an illustration of that special tool to insert the small flaseal in the casing (just a turned to size stepped pin)

    The spring loaded cap in the centre rear of the casing may have room for a ring seal behind the cap, though they just advise to smear the threads on reassembly with CAF Thixo 4/60 I presume this is a stiff grease or oil..

    Sorry can't scan at the moment.

    Worth a look.

    Ken

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Sorry can't scan at the moment.



    Ken
    No dramas Ken.
    I have a plan.
    I spoke to my mechanic and he reckons he may have some time next week to get the car up on the hoist to replace the box and clutch the easy way.

    By "easy way", he meant leaving the donk in place and droping the box backwards and down, and I agree'd as I was thinking the 'easy way' is having some one else do the job, regardless of their method.


    I've still got some work ahead of me though, pulling the box from the spare car.

    Jo

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Oil leaks

    Jo,
    My worth.
    Check the gearbox oil level. Drain off if oil runs out of filler level.

  7. #7
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    Default Taking the easy way out!!

    OK Jo, that is a sign of growing older

    I take it that the Fuego will get its new clutch and main rear seal done at the same time. Never miss an opportunity hey!!

    I'm starting to clear the decks here to replace the head gasket on mine. Its nice to have a reliable spare car around just in case!!

    And that reminds me, I wonder how Gonz and Fandango got on with doing a clutch for the first time. Maybe in the new year I might get time for a wandering trip that way with some bits etc, just in case and see Roger W on the way!!

    Have a good Christmas mate

    Ken.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    OK Jo, that is a sign of growing older

    Ken.
    I would have said growing wiser.

    Jo

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    Jo,
    My worth.
    Check the gearbox oil level. Drain off if oil runs out of filler level.
    As misfortune or murphy would have it, just this week the car was on the hoist and I checked the box to be be fine, no excess fluid.
    My head was not with me when doing this and i started undoing the drain plug half a turn, then realised what i was doing, nipped it back up and undid the check plug in the side of the box.

    Initially when i saw the leak, I thought maybe I'd not done the drain plug back up tight enough,so I tightened it and figured that was all. The driveway stains showed that wasnot the problem.
    Today I had a proper look and discovered the real location of the leak.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fuego gearbox oil leak-oily-box.jpg  

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    You can do the job quick and dirty by just removing the rear g'box cover and doing the seal if you want. You still have to take out the selector shaft (two rollpins, I think). Be careful if you do, because if you bash them in, they'll hit and crack your casing very easily, as they don't have enough room to get out that way. That'll create a new leak. Bash them a little bit in, then turn the shaft around and pull them out with a pair of vice grips.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    You can do the job quick and dirty by just removing the rear g'box cover and doing the seal if you want. You still have to take out the selector shaft (two rollpins, I think). Be careful if you do, because if you bash them in, they'll hit and crack your casing very easily, as they don't have enough room to get out that way. That'll create a new leak. Bash them a little bit in, then turn the shaft around and pull them out with a pair of vice grips.
    Thanks for that info.

    I must confess I have not ever delved into the gearbox or the clutch.....or the motor for that matter, my experience is based mainly on necessity and these parts have never failed me in the past.
    Maybe its time I learned about them.

    This is the first failure of this part I've had. The oldest fuego i've run was 400k, and that seal never went which made me start thinking its perhaps an age thing.

    Today with my new gift camera from michelin, I snapped a hundred shots of the area and squeezed it above and around all the parts that I'd have needed a hoist and a mirror to see.

    One photo stood out from the rest.

    I dont think this is a coincidence at all and feel until I get this sorted, I'll be paddling up the same crappy creek in a short space of time.
    Aghhh

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fuego gearbox oil leak-hmm.jpg  

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Are you positively sure that it is leaking out of the selector shaft bellow? Try to wash perfectly clean the whole area (without using pressure cleaners, just one of those cheap degreaser spraycans), and pull back the bellows to see if there's any oil on the shaft there. The oil looks splashed around a lot, maybe it's coming from somewhere else and just happen to drip off the bellows because that's the lowest point.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    I've done nothing much about the leak, because the 2nd gear syncro is cactus anyway, so instead of putting any effort into that box further than parking it bum up, i pulled a good one from a wreck in anticipation for its transplant into my car. It is a low Km old lady's car, 115k.

    That was an experience in itself as the car was on grass, or dirt more accurately so I got to get close and personal with all types of interesting insects.

    I dont think I fancy putting a gearbox back in like that if today was any indication.
    I think I'll pull the motor and gearbox out of my car and mate them in the shed and put them back in. That job is easy compared to the grief I had today.

    I gave the box a clean and made it too clean, too shiny silver colour like silver spray paint, so changed the look of it back to a steely grey which looks pretty cool.
    I love detailing old renault cast alloy as it has such character and grain.


    The bellhousing had a bit too much grain and character though.
    CRacks in the surface over the whole thing
    Is this type of thing normal???





    Jo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fuego gearbox oil leak-cracks-enhanced.jpg   fuego gearbox oil leak-box-med.jpg  

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yes, Jo. They're not cracks however, but casting imperfections. They probably pulled them off the mold too early, or had crap anti-stick agent on the molds, who knows? Point is, they all have those. At least mine do. Look closer, and try to file/sand one of those down and you'll see. Crappy french shit.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Y Look closer, and try to file/sand one of those down and you'll see. Crappy french shit.
    Yes, all the machined facets are spot on, so I stopped worrying.

    Jo

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Its not better or worse casting i think, just different. Not as aesthetically pleasing, but structurally does the job - probably just a different method.

    Might be a good opportunity to strap in the 2.2 donk from the R25? Not as revvy, but that torque is nice.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  17. #17
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    Yeah, the Engine Blocks from the alloy Renault motors of the 70's and 80's are the same but that is why they are so light.

    Most other alloy blocks were and still are sand cast and weigh alot. The Renault engines were die cast.

    Diecasting is alot more expensive to set up but has benefits with regards to strength/weight.

    It just looks a little 'odd'.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    Its not better or worse casting i think, just different. Not as aesthetically pleasing, but structurally does the job - probably just a different method.

    Might be a good opportunity to strap in the 2.2 donk from the R25? Not as revvy, but that torque is nice.
    Shoot me for not taking photo's whilst down at a mates yesterday. I'm silly, but he is fully nuts.

    There was a fuego unfinished project with a 12v head on a 2.2 mated to a Un1, a 12v east west motor sitting on the ground, a 2.2 with Autronic control, a more custom bits like extractors and weird assed 12v exhaust manifolds that looked like a cross between a renault and an early holden casting.

    It looks like I'll be grabbing some of the bits off him soon like the extractors, ecu and coils.
    If nothing else you realise how damn heavy the cast iron is when the entire extractor and secondarys are about 1/3 as heavy as just the cast manifold.

    Very pertinent to my week of woe, he is getting the lower chassis support re fabricated to be removable.
    Bloody briliant when it comes to fitting a clutch or shoe horning a 2.2 un1 combi.

    Jo

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Shoot me for not taking photo's whilst down at a mates yesterday
    Why is this project not on AF, with numerous photos....?
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Not an Af'er.

    Some may have seen his car at the BBQ last year.

    You'd have loved it there yesterday hakkon. He was pulling renault parts I've never seen before from various combo's of 12v heads.

    The guy seems to have done alot of research as to what heads/sumps/donks work with each other and what mods to oil galleries and internal plumbing need to be performed to mate the various versions up.

    Got to see the famous but seldom seen baffled sump of the high Hp donks.
    At that point the conversation turned to that guy in canada, rageman and his project to put a big turbo on a standard donk.
    What ever happened to him?? did he finish the car and blow his motor up??

    Jo

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Not an Af'er.
    Well then, you have your mission - get to it son

    Sounds like the ideal combo for sure - I look forward to the piccies and writeup.

    I still like the notion of a blown 13B in a Fuego though...
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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