lighten up the bum in a r10
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  1. #1
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    Default lighten up the bum in a r10

    hi ive been into the old r10 for a few years now when i got me first one i was eager to lighten up the rear half of the car i took off the tow bar believe ir not it had one i also took out the fuel tank protection plate a lot of you probablly think im a bit suisidal now with out that plate theres not much stopping you if you get hit up the bum the temp sensor is the first thing to go thru the tank with voltage on it BANG of course moving the tank to the front would be a good move.
    the main Q im asking here is what the hell are those heavy weights on the rear suspension arms for the ones that bolt on with u shaped bolts if i take these off will i end up upside down surely not what on earth do the heavy little suckers do what purpose do they serve can anyone tell me?

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Post a photo.
    Your description doesn't sound standard that I can tell (or at least I can't picture what you're trying to describe).

    Sounds like a PO may have installed some form of balance bar?
    KB


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    Fellow Frogger! alpinesau's Avatar
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    KB,
    They are standard. They're either mass dampers or stiffening devices for the rear axle A- arms. They are not present on the A110.
    I wouldn't think that there is any problem in removing them.

    Robert
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Ah Yes, on the Torsion bars!
    I was trying to picture something on the cross member or axle tubes.

    I suspect dampening would be the main purpose. If they came off, would the chances of the bar cracking or breaking be increased I wonder?

    Ps - where the hell is Simon?

    Cheers
    KB
    KB


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    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    I think you may be talking about the damper weights on the S bars (that control the forward & backward movement of the rear wheels). I'm guessing they are Renaults attempt at NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) reduction.
    If you are really wanting to distribute the weight more evenly, do what you mentioned & put the tank in the front & you could even front mount a radiator (refer thread by Frans) but you lose your spare wheel unless you put it in the trunk but then you're starting to run out of boot space.
    cheers,

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Ah Yes, on the Torsion bars!
    I was trying to picture something on the cross member or axle tubes.

    I suspect dampening would be the main purpose. If they came off, would the chances of the bar cracking or breaking be increased I wonder?

    Ps - where the hell is Simon?

    Cheers
    KB
    KB, those are not torsion bars, they are simply locater bars to take some of the fore and aft loads off the swing axle carriers on the gearbox casing.
    The weights are to reduce harmonic vibrations. Effect of removal, I doubt you would notice the difference. They only weigh less than 1kg each so minimal effect I would think.

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    Default Lightening R10 Rear ?

    What is Your reason for lightening the rear end ?

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    "lighten up the bum in a r10"

    I saw this headline and I thought Mrs Exfrogger was looking to put her old man on a diet!!

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    I hadn't planned on visiting Adelaide this year, but you know, I think I just might...

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    thanks for you answers guys the main reason i want to lighten up the bum is ive had 1 or 2 bad experiences in my old girl shes sitting in my garage with a few bandages on it.
    back when it was on the road i bought a new set of rear tyres and i stacked it on the first night there were a couple of things against me, it was raining it was about 5 in the morning and i had a few drinks earlier on and i was in a hooning mood 1 last thing that could of also been a factor was BRAND NEW TYRES WITH THAT SHINY SLIPPERY COATING ON THEM could of that been the posability who know but i would of only done about 10ks on wet roads before i lost it i wounder if that shiney slippery coating was still on those tyres.
    when i did crash it it wasnt to bad all i hit was a street sign but i had no front bumber so it coped it pretty hard.
    The back end is a bit to heavy for my liking its like a big counter weight in the back and when you lose it geeze it can be hard to get it back.
    basically i with my cars look for the cheapest ways to try and make them keep up with moden stuff cutting down on weight is a real good one it costs nothing.
    my old r10 i bought for $500 and it allready had a 1.4 fitted to it it use to fly and it will again one day im sure of that.
    ive got another story about a R10 this ex racer who has a wrecking yard now told me i will tell about that a bit later

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Ah........
    In answer to your first question - Yes; you will put it on it's lid.
    Lightening the back in small doses, will not change the fundamental handling characteristics of an R10.

    One cheap mod, most people do or try at some stage is putting a couple of bags of cement (it used to be one big one) in the the boot to help stabilise the front.

    Tyres - I ride motorcycles and there appears to be two sides to that argument. People who swear their crash is due to new tyres; those who scrub the tyres with a scotch pad before riding off on new tyres and those that simply take it easy for the first hundred or so K's and scrub them in naturally. Given your accident happened in the wet, I guess it is possible but the main difference is that most motorcycle accidents happened due to trying to use the slipperier, less used side wall. You were using the tyre patch that is pretty much always in contact with the road and should have been scrubbed one would think?
    KB
    Last edited by renault8&10; 13th December 2010 at 06:23 AM. Reason: Add tyre comment
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus m View Post
    thanks for you answers guys the main reason i want to lighten up the bum is ive had 1 or 2 bad experiences in my old girl shes sitting in my garage with a few bandages on it.
    back when it was on the road i bought a new set of rear tyres and i stacked it on the first night there were a couple of things against me, it was raining it was about 5 in the morning and i had a few drinks earlier on and i was in a hooning mood 1 last thing that could of also been a factor was BRAND NEW TYRES WITH THAT SHINY SLIPPERY COATING ON THEM could of that been the posability who know but i would of only done about 10ks on wet roads before i lost it i wounder if that shiney slippery coating was still on those tyres.
    when i did crash it it wasnt to bad all i hit was a street sign but i had no front bumber so it coped it pretty hard.
    The back end is a bit to heavy for my liking its like a big counter weight in the back and when you lose it geeze it can be hard to get it back.
    basically i with my cars look for the cheapest ways to try and make them keep up with moden stuff cutting down on weight is a real good one it costs nothing.
    my old r10 i bought for $500 and it allready had a 1.4 fitted to it it use to fly and it will again one day im sure of that.
    ive got another story about a R10 this ex racer who has a wrecking yard now told me i will tell about that a bit later
    The weights seem to me to be what others have said - something to change the harmonic vibration characteristics of the trailing arms and reduce noise, such as the rear brake groaning that happens sometimes. I doubt they do much but the weight difference is trivial so I'd leave them there.

    I think the trailing arms are not to relieve load on the trunnion bearings (they are in silentbloc bushes at the front so can't do much) but rather to help keep the whole rear end assembly aligned on its soft mountings.

    The old "bag of cement" approach works quite well for directional stability and adds a bit to understeer I reckon. Ultimately, you are driving a rear engined car with swing axles though and need to handle it accordingly. Unless you put in a much lighter alloy engine (Mazda rotary comes to mind perhaps) I don't see that there's much you can do to reduce rear end weight significantly once you have taken off the bumpers.

    The rear panel between engine and fuel tank is, I'd think, also part of the cooling logic of sealing the engine area to keep internal air pressure down to help the airflow forward through the radiator. Again not critical perhaps, as old discussions on undertrays have shown, but I'd personally leave it in place.

    Mine had a heavy towbar too, and I removed it once her pulling trailer days were over.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Default Heavey Ended R10 !!!

    Marcus M,
    I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you blame the car for you driving,pissed, in the wet, with guaranteed cheep plastic tyres, and "hooning", and you still wonder why you could not miss the lamp post, sorry street sign. Do I have to say any more.

    I drove my first Renault rear engine in 1968, I have been driving them hard ever since, and I have not put the smallest ding in any of them on the road (only on the track).

    My advise is to learn to drive a rear engined car and stop drinking.

    Ray geckoeng.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    Marcus M,
    I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you blame the car for you driving,pissed, in the wet, with guaranteed cheep plastic tyres, and "hooning", and you still wonder why you could not miss the lamp post, sorry street sign. Do I have to say any more.

    I drove my first Renault rear engine in 1968, I have been driving them hard ever since, and I have not put the smallest ding in any of them on the road (only on the track).

    My advise is to learn to drive a rear engined car and stop drinking.

    Ray geckoeng.
    What he said. While you're at it, a study of punctuation would go a long way to making your posts readable.

    I was thrust into a R10 not long after learning to drive, and figured out pretty quickly that, once you are committed to a corner, stay committed, and change nothing. Especially, don't back off, or, heaven help you, brake. Many years later, when eventually able to afford one, I discovered that I had already learnt how to drive a 911, in the R10. Exactly the same technique, for the same reasons.

    I have never put a mark on an R10, or on a 911, but have driven both very hard.

    The tyres, by the way, were not the problem.

    Tim

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Default Good one Tim.

    Tim,

    Thank you, exactly my point. They drive different to most other cars, and once you have learnt the basics, you go very fast and very enjoyable.

    Ray geckoeng

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    I think the boys are being a bit harsh...

    For cars to perform at their best they should be not only set up for the environment in which they are being driven but to accommodate the skills of the driver.

    I think relocating your drink holder to the centre of the bonnet and lightening the rear end by removing one, or possibly two, spark plug leads might just do the trick...

    Hope that helps.

    P

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    Marcus M,
    I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you blame the car for you driving,pissed, in the wet, with guaranteed cheep plastic tyres, and "hooning", and you still wonder why you could not miss the lamp post, sorry street sign. Do I have to say any more.

    I drove my first Renault rear engine in 1968, I have been driving them hard ever since, and I have not put the smallest ding in any of them on the road (only on the track).

    My advise is to learn to drive a rear engined car and stop drinking.

    Ray geckoeng.
    With respects Ray,

    Swing axle rear ends can be quite tricky to handle, largely due to the enormous camber change as the inner wheel "tucks in".

    Like it or not R10s can be very unforgiving when driven hard in the wet especially with the standard fare of Michelin XZX on skinny rims. I confess to a backwards excursion into the grass after, in hindsight, going much too fast on slippery bitumen. I was young and stupid and Mum was lucky not to have her R10 totalled!

    Sure, like VW beetles, R10s can be driven fast, but once the rear end is lost, in most cases you are there for ride.

    Whilst I don't disagree with your advice about not hooning and good tyres, Swing axles RWD cars are nowhere as forgiving as nearly anything French and front wheel drive.

    That's not say, when driven sensibly by a person of experience (read- several excursions off the road)
    they are not extremely fast. Ask Bob Watson or Rod Slater.

    I would advise Marcus to drive the car sensibly until he gets to know the traits, which should NOT be learnt on public roads.

    PS: A couple of 35kg sands bags in the front helps a lot.

    cheers

    Robert
    Last edited by robmac; 16th December 2010 at 06:25 PM.

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    As I read through all the different statements and i look back upon my own experience. Most of the trouble I had with losing the rear end on my R8 G was due to incorrect settings on the stabilizer arms at the rear.

    Once they are setup for your style of driving they seem to work. Much the same way that two bikes different drivers will have two different suspension setups.

    That said I can also say that I firmly belive in what Ray is saying that when you stay on the gas those little buggers stay in the turn as well....

    I've always wondered what the effect would be of a little shorter straps on the rear wheels to prevent the "tuck in" situations? Saw pictures of racing R8's and R10's which nearly no sign of moving out of there pushed out stance. Also don't know if it's the double shocks on the rear of the R8G that makes it a lot more stable through turns but I can say that I'll do speeds through turns with my G that I won't do with any other car be it front wheel drive or rearwheel drive.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default On the lighter side

    I cannot remember the names of the drivers but they were rally drivers that gave the following comments in almost the exact words.

    "The Renaults handle extremely well and you can steer them in 2 ways. One is with the throttle and the other is with the steering wheel and in that order"

    "There are 2 rules in racing these Renaults. 1) NEVER EVER lift your foot in a corner and 2) NEVER EVER lift your foot in a corner"

    Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post

    "There are 2 rules in racing these Renaults. 1) NEVER EVER lift your foot in a corner and 2) NEVER EVER lift your foot in a corner"

    Frans.
    As the LHF wheel in your avatar shows.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exfrogger View Post
    lightening the rear end by removing one, or possibly two, spark plug leads might just do the trick...

    Classic!

    Tim

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    I had the same idea about making nice tight axle straps to try and stop the positive camber happening out of seatbelts has anyone out there tried that.
    Also to the people bagging me out this accident im sure you all have done stupid things on the road your just not all that brave to admit it and did happen a long time ago close to 10 years now yes i did have a bit to drink and i also waited till 5 in the morning to drive so i wasnt all that intoxicated i was being a bit stupid thu bad then i do admit im a lot different now days i dont go out parting and i have a little one to think about so my hooning days are pretty well over well allmost.

  23. #23
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    Default RobMac

    Robmac, I believe you have not driven many Renault rear engined cars. They handle and drive completely different to a VW Beetle. A beetle is a "PIG" compared to a R8/10. And their swing axle arrangement is very different to each other. I still believe that a Dauph, R8, R10 is still a much faster driving car than any of the FWD cars of today, for the same HP/Kwt, FWD need lots of suspension mods to make them corner as fast. Renault do need good shocks to make them work though I will admit.

    Ray geckoeng

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    My son drives his R10 like ...well a maniac around corners. Frankly I think they are as quick as anything else but when they go they go big time and often with out much warning.

    I have replaced the rear straps with some canvas based conveyor belting about 6mm thick and it seems to be ok. I kept them the same length as original but they could be shortened a little bit I guess. I have inspected them looking for tears etc and none so far. When we got the car it used someones leather trouser belt as straps and it was coming apart at the stitching but hadn't broken the leather. I wouldn't recommend that as a solution.

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Is that the blue one with white stripes that was at the Alpine Expo & FCD?
    KB
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