fuego rear brake proportioning valve thread
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Default fuego rear brake proportioning valve thread

    If you dont already know it, you fuego is on borrowed time with the achilles heel being its load sensitive brake proportioning valve, which is no longer available off the shelf, and will fail in time, if not already.
    One of the sure sign of the valve locking up is the rear left tyre locking under extreme braking. Other symptoms include bleeding from the valve body and persistant air in the lines.

    I suggest yearly brake bleeds to keep the valve body clean.

    Already I have received enquiries from local renault service agents about the valve, and after disappointing them with no supply, the customers car has ended up in my wrecking yard so I'm not making stuff up when i suggest that this is a big big issue on our cars and will see many of our cars sitting on hoists unfinished.
    (when I smashed my fuego last month and the word got out on the street, the call came through the next day...can I have your valve)
    There are non compliant options like racing bias valves, but they would be quite illegal without engineering, whereby costs would go through the roof. They'd also be a PITA to set up.

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    So the point in this thread is to ask is there any interest in supporting my efforts to have an engineer rebuild a batch of old valves????

    I'd imagine if i can rebuild enough of them, I can keep the costs down to a sensible amount.
    From vague memory I just paid over $200 for a new one, and I would imagine the costs would come in around that, but I have no real idea at this stage, I'm just planting the seed of interest.
    I know I'd keep a spare, and my mate down the road would too, and maybe Ken.
    Anyone else???

    I would also like to invite anyone who has an old valve to keep it, as i only have about 3 valve bodies to rebuild and the more valves that survive the crusher , the better.

    Jo

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Hi Jo,

    There is already a company in Victoria that rebuilds of 404 compensating valves.
    They charge less $100 and bore them out to suit PBR booster parts, used as replacements internally.

    There is another company in South Australia that recos them for around $500.00 !

    Granted the 404 is only single circuit therefore quite simple.

    GW can possibly tell you more.

    I would also look at an adapting to another type of valve. Toyota use load actuated compensating valves on many HIlux and Hiace. They are readily available at around $50 trade new.

    I'm not trying to take over your thread: simply putting ideas into the "cooking pot".

    cheers

    Rob

  3. #3
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    Just pulled a some limiter stuff off the computer, might as well be on this thread for convenience.

    Might have to edit if not relevant.

    There are some pic's that didn't upload, so will resize if relevant.

    Added a further view of the limiter internals from manual.

    Ken

    Checked the links, and in the second word file, there are some old A/F links that don't work now to images, and NOTE Dave Cavanagh no longer has new valves as that old thread of his stated!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fuego rear brake proportioning valve thread-fuego-limiter-valve-description.jpg  
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 22nd November 2010 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Update on notes.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I'm not trying to take over your thread: simply putting ideas into the "cooking pot".

    cheers

    Rob
    No explanation required, Rob.
    I appreciate the 'think tank' that this forum offers.
    I dont know of another car that has a load sensitive proportioning valve that has similar specs.
    Neither did that brake guy a few month back which is maybe why all the hastle started in the first place.
    He had never in his life seen a system quite like this fuego system.

    It is a mechanical switch with a variable threshold, and is for a Diagonal split system.
    The switch will switch at around 300psi and hold that pressure in the drums.
    The switch threshold is controlled by springs and levers, and is purely mechanical.

    If such a part was common to another car, even having a different sized screw in pipe would mean custom fabrication and lots of messing around, and the mechanical threshold would be hard to set with a custom fabrication.
    As it is, its a bit of a barstard of a job to change the part and to set accuratly and thats with an OE part.

    Anyway, I'll just let this thread sit for a while to gauge interest.

    I know how these things work, no one will think they want one, until theirs fails monumentally, and then like happened with me, there is this mad search to source one.
    I believe I got the last one.

    Jo

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Bolla's Avatar
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    Default Count me in

    Jo,

    Although no porblems with mine, I understand how essential a functioning valve is, so count me in for a re-built one as a spare if you can source them at a reasonable price. I will also do some investigation on substitues - load proportioning valves are quite common on non-ABS cars and utes, but there must be something quite unique about the Fuego system to get the sort of response you did on your recent brake repair shop experience.
    Bolla

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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Alastair Browne's Avatar
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    Great to see you in your car today but disappointed not to see you going round that corner on 2 wheels!

    Alastair

  7. #7
    bob
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    G'day Jo,

    gotta be in it 'spose, cos Murphy says if I have a spare I'll never need it

    cheers,
    Bob

  8. #8
    Tadpole fuego's Avatar
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    Hi jo,
    I would also be interested in getting one rebuilt.
    Cheers Chris

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Bolla's Avatar
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    Default Could this be adapted

    Jo,

    I haven't had reason to crawl under the back of the Fuego yet, so I am not familiar with the exact setup, but this one is off a Fuego Turbo and may be able to be made to fit. Given your experience with modifying one previously does this look close: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CORRETTORE-DI...item27b3d984cf
    Bolla

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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolla View Post
    Jo,

    I haven't had reason to crawl under the back of the Fuego yet, so I am not familiar with the exact setup, but this one is off a Fuego Turbo and may be able to be made to fit. Given your experience with modifying one previously does this look close: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CORRETTORE-DI...item27b3d984cf
    It is close and I reckon it would work if it were not for the fact that our fuego is a diagonaly split set up, meaning the valve needs two discreet lines in and two out.

    That set up is one rear line in and two out, so is only half what is required.

    To use that valve, you'd need a three output master cylinder and disuse one of the lines going to the back end.

    Jo

  11. #11
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    Hi,

    I don't think that there is need to panic. NOS pops up quite often and with the internet you'll always be able to find it - admittedly in Europe. I never had problems dealing with French sellers on leboncoin.fr

    Here are two examples:
    http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_a...543.htm?ca=7_s
    http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_a...633.htm?ca=7_s (professional, registered seller)

    Or aren't these the ones you were looking for? Are these not for the 2.0 Litres?

    Regards,
    Daniel

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Thanks for the effort, daniel, but those are the single valved unit where the fuego uses a double valve so is twice the valve that one is.

    Jo

  13. #13
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    OK,
    I see the difference. According to my PR900 the R1363 the following two valves can be in use:
    - 77 00 674 642 up to N°45919
    as seen here: http://cgi.ebay.de/Bremskraftregler-...-/220694311748
    - 77 00 724 663 from then on (Bendix 631002B 312077B )
    http://www.piecesvoitures.com/pieces...mpaign=produit

    They seem to be used in Fuegos and Renault 18.

    I will keep my eyes open for those.

    Daniel

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel R25 View Post
    I will keep my eyes open for those.

    Daniel
    Thank you for doing that.
    My pulse rose a little when I saw that picture.
    That is indeed the correct part.
    There is a mirror reversed version, but the internals are the same and the only mod is to reverse the post and clip on the top of the valve and switch the orientation of the lever.

    Jo

  15. #15
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    Hi,
    just found this. I suppose it is still of interest? Good price as well.

    http://www.oscaro.com/regulateur-de-...7b-522064-73-p


    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Renault-18-T...item4cfcc139e5

    Daniel
    Last edited by Daniel R25; 13th January 2012 at 07:47 AM. Reason: top link was wrong

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Is the R25 item not similar?

  17. #17
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    I'm in.

  18. #18
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    count me in for three lots

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    Is the R25 item not similar?
    Correct, not similar.

    Be carefull fellas, that ebay part is not the same as ours.

    Just make sure it is a duel circuit valve, ie 2 in 2 out, not 1 in 2 out,, and be prepared to do some fabricating if it is the wrong way around.


    Jo

  20. #20
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    Default Is this the right one?

    Is this the right one for our cars?

    It looks the same as the one on my car based on a quick visual -




  21. #21
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    That is exactly the right valve.

    Jo

  22. #22
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    Just bought one NOS from the UK...

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Begs the obvious question...Are there any more???


    Jo

  24. #24
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    I have sent a question to the seller. asking if he has others.

    It wasn't cheap at 99P but it's good to have a spare...

  25. #25
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    I have sent a question to the seller. asking if he has others.

    It wasn't cheap at 99P but it's good to have a spare...
    I'd say that is cheap. Even at 99 Pounds it would be quite reasonable. I suggest you buy his entire stock.
    JohnW

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