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  1. #1
    bob
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    unleaded petrol

    We have a Renault 20 ts 1982. Does anyone know if this model is ok on ULP ? It runs like a dog on LRP from our local not-big-name outlet.

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Bob,

    Renault 20's have an alloy head, so should have hardened valve seats already. All my cars run like shit on LRP and ULP, but run well on pulp and optimix. I think optimax is about the only fuel you can get that has the same octane rating as good old 'normal' 'super' did back when our cars were new.

    seeya,

    Shane Leviston
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    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Hi Bob,
    Yep do what Shane said, LRP is complete crap, infact its worse than crap, optimax is the closest thing to super on the market and it won't hurt your motor don't be worried about the extra cost of optimax because you might find the car runs so much better its actually uses less fuel, give it ago, I'm sure you'll be impressed.

    David.

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  4. #4
    bob
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    Thanks troops

    It's hard sometimes to get definitive replies to what "we" believe are simple questions - I suppose that those that one asks in the industry aren't generally game to put their head on the block.

    In regard to economy, I currently get about 25mpg around town - it used to be 18 to 19 until I put a pressure regulator in the fuel line. The pump managed around 8psi at idle in the driveway and it always ran rich.

    thanks again
    Bob


  5. #5
    zac
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    Hi guys, LRP is actually PULP with some extra chemicals stuck in. The chemicals depend on the manufacturer; there are no Australian Standards for LRP so the manufacturers just put in whatever they want.

    My R10 seems to run OK on LRP but would it run on ULP alone, or ULP and some upper head lubricant regularly? I had bad times with my Datsun (and 45DCOE) and LRP - it coughed and spluttered and intake backfired like I was trying to run it on water hehe .

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Zac,

    if your R10 is happy on ULP I'd just use that. Your motor has an alloy head, so should have hardened valve seats already. Sure they may not be as hard as the newer unleaded cars valve seats, but they'd be a lot better than the poor old cast iron heads

    I'd avoid the LRP crap and run optimax and set you timing to where it rightly belongs (giving you full performance...)

    seeya,

    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  7. #7
    zac
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    Thanks Shane, I'll give her some ULP next time (havent tried it yet). I have a feeling LRP might be why the idle is a bit high. And I'll clean the plugs, I've heard of LRP fouling plugs in 5000kms!

    I havent really dared play/tune with the Renault yet, just sussing it out at the moment

  8. #8
    zac
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    forgot to mention we don't have Optimax in SA yet!

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    Hi all,

    The compression ratio of a stock 10 is 8.5:1, likely to be a touch low for 91 octane ULP. In my 12 (9.5:1 compression)it runs fine on LRP (95 octane), no problems and the plugs don't foul up (just replaced about two weeks ago @ 22,000k's use. It also goes OK on PULP.

    If the 10 pings on ULP, LRP @ 95 octane or PULP should be fine with 98 octane. Or go for the ultimate with 100 octane from OG speed shop, or 115 octane from the new BP on West Terrace.

    Simon

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  10. #10
    zac
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    I put some PULP in the r10 on the weekend but it was still a mix of LRP/PULP so I didnt notice a big difference. I didn't get a chance to change mixtures or idle speed at all either because I spent the weekend at the rally

    I'll keep running ULP through it though, hopefully I can get rid of the last of that dreaded LRP!

  11. #11
    bob
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    Official word from Renault !

    "Renault introduced lead free petrol on the R21 in 1985 on certain models and
    on all models as from 1987. To use unleaded petrol may have an adverse
    effect on the engine. In many countries a substitute to leaded petrol is now
    available by including some additive. You should be able to get this
    information from any petrol station."

    Our 20 is now on it's 4th tank of Optimax plus Valvemaster. Apart from one stutter half way through the first tank where it farted and snorted on its way back from Geelong to Melbourne for about ten minutes it's been good news all the way.

    The pinking is reducing with each fill and it's certainly got more go - blows a little bit of smoke under stress but I suppose that you can't win 'em all. I'm told that I should look at changing the filters and an oil change soon as optimax tends to shift any rubbish lying about.

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    Bob, my stock standard 12 (9.5:1 CR) used to run so badly on LRP (and retarded timing) that eventually it wouldn't run at all without pinging, even if you gingerly pressed the throttle. Eventually it cut out round corners! I now use PULP (98 octane?) and Redline Lead Substitute. I actually think it runs better than it did on Super - what a difference! (Of course, timing is restored to standard). Redline comes in a bottle that treats about 12 40 litre tanks full for around 17 bucks. Worth it, plus it (and Castrol Valvemaster) passed a test by the Federation of Historic Motor Vehicles in the UK - not a guarantee, but a long way to peace of mind. Cheers...

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  13. #13
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stuey:
    Bob, my stock standard 12 (9.5:1 CR) used to run so badly on LRP (and retarded timing) that eventually it wouldn't run at all without pinging, even if you gingerly pressed the throttle. Eventually it cut out round corners! I now use PULP (98 octane?) and Redline Lead Substitute. I actually think it runs better than it did on Super - what a difference! (Of course, timing is restored to standard). Redline comes in a bottle that treats about 12 40 litre tanks full for around 17 bucks. Worth it, plus it (and Castrol Valvemaster) passed a test by the Federation of Historic Motor Vehicles in the UK - not a guarantee, but a long way to peace of mind. Cheers...

    Stuey
    JohnW

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  14. #14
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Stuey and others,

    Several of us in Perth are using Redline with apparent success. I found LRP disgusting, fouling plugs and so on. Redline certainly works well with ULP - I'm using it in my R8, 4CV and my 16TS and they run well, plugs remain clean etc. I can only assume the valve seats are OK - certainly won't check unless something is very wrong!

    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stuey:
    Bob, my stock standard 12 (9.5:1 CR) used to run so badly on LRP (and retarded timing) that eventually it wouldn't run at all without pinging, even if you gingerly pressed the throttle. Eventually it cut out round corners! I now use PULP (98 octane?) and Redline Lead Substitute. I actually think it runs better than it did on Super - what a difference! (Of course, timing is restored to standard). Redline comes in a bottle that treats about 12 40 litre tanks full for around 17 bucks. Worth it, plus it (and Castrol Valvemaster) passed a test by the Federation of Historic Motor Vehicles in the UK - not a guarantee, but a long way to peace of mind. Cheers...

    Stuey
    JohnW

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    John, fortunately my local Woolworths gives 8c a litre discount if you spend $200 on groceries there as well, so I'm happy with the not so premium price for premium unleaded PS I'll be taking the head off in the near future to replace the valve guide seals, so I'll check the valves out then..

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  16. #16
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Stuey,

    I should ask which Woolworths? There used to be a Renault service tool which screwed into spark plug holes to support the valve so you could release collets and replace the seals without pulling the head off.

    Cheers

    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stuey:
    John, fortunately my local Woolworths gives 8c a litre discount if you spend $200 on groceries there as well, so I'm happy with the not so premium price for premium unleaded PS I'll be taking the head off in the near future to replace the valve guide seals, so I'll check the valves out then..

    Stuey
    JohnW

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    John, all the Woolworths that sell fuel. Normally it's 6c a litre, but lately it's gone up to 8. Bargain.

    About this tool...did it compress the valve spring as well? I assume it's some sort of normal v/spring compressor with a thin shank that goes through the plug hole and holds the valve head. Sounds damn handy...

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  18. #18
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Stuey,

    Thanks - I didn't realise that. My recollection is of a curved rod with a threaded collar that screwed into the plug hole threaded socket. When tight the rod just pushed up against the bottom of the valve. It didn't (from my recollection) include a spring compressor. What I can't recall is which model or models it fitted.

    Cheers

    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stuey:
    John, all the Woolworths that sell fuel. Normally it's 6c a litre, but lately it's gone up to 8. Bargain.

    About this tool...did it compress the valve spring as well? I assume it's some sort of normal v/spring compressor with a thin shank that goes through the plug hole and holds the valve head. Sounds damn handy...

    Stuey
    JohnW

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  19. #19
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    Hi all,

    Don't know if petrol is different between Perth and Adelaide, but my 12 runs perfectly on LRP. Performance is much improved over the old Leaded, and would appear to be back to the very old Super days. The advance being back to the setting I used to use, and with no pinging. It runs the standard Ducellier distributor with Champion L86C plugs. These plugs last at least 20,000k's before being replaced.

    The special tool description is correct to hold the valve is correct, but it doesn't include a compressot tool, which it another Mot. tool again. BTW neither tools will be usable to do the valve stem seals on a 4/8/10/12, as those motors don't have valve stem seals as standard. If the problem can be ascertained to the top of the motor, it is worn guides and valves that will be causing the problem.


    Simon
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  20. #20
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    The LRP over here is so bad that there have been people with 'classic cars' wanting to sue. One guy, a mechanic, removed his Triumph Stag's heads and there was a thick black soot in the chambers, after only a few weeks of running (badly). There is absolutely no doubt that it almost stopped my car from running - and it had always run perfectly before that. Father in law has a Rover P5 that also ran terribly on the fuel.

    Yeah, I do know about the valve guide seals not being standard - I put them on there in the first place, got them from Caravelle. I don't know if they're an add on for a 12, or if they're from another model. They didn't sit too well, simply because there is obviously no groove to retain them on the top of the guide. I guess it's a valve guide replacement in the near future...

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! Reno17's Avatar
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    Hey guys

    My R17 seems to run pretty good on LRP. Runs better then the old super.
    I experimented today by using some octane booster and didn't really notice that much difference seem to run a bit smoother, although I did manage to pull off a third gear Cherpy which is something I've never experienced.

    Bloody Hoon


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  22. #22
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    Hey, I'm not on here all day, it just looks that way...

    To get the most out of octane booster (at least on a car without knock sensing ignition) you'd need to advance your timing a couple of degrees. Basically, keep advancing it until you get pinging when you drive it under load (ie. trial and error method - adjust then drive), then drop it back a couple of degrees. Trouble is, you'd then need to use the booster all the time. Should notice a difference, though.

    Stuey the couch potato


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  23. #23
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    My car seems to run great on LRP. It's a modified 504 with only about 20psi on one cylinder. Considering it's effectively only running on 1500-1750cc and it weighs 1200kg, it's absolutely flying. I can't weight to see how it goes when it's got four 170+psi cylinders and my newly modified cylinder head(when I get off my bum and put rings, bearings and a cam in one of my other engines).

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  24. #24
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Simon,

    Thanks. We'll never know as they'll never tell us - differences between LRP in Adelaide and Perth that is. I've met no-one in Perth that found it any good at all.

    You are quite right about the valve seals - 4CV and Dauphine, not R8 onwards. I'd have thought the R4 would have had them, at least those with Ventoux engines. I've never had a problem with valve guides except to replace the odd one when engines are down for other reasons.

    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Simon:
    Hi all,

    Don't know if petrol is different between Perth and Adelaide, but my 12 runs perfectly on LRP. Performance is much improved over the old Leaded, and would appear to be back to the very old Super days. The advance being back to the setting I used to use, and with no pinging. It runs the standard Ducellier distributor with Champion L86C plugs. These plugs last at least 20,000k's before being replaced.

    The special tool description is correct to hold the valve is correct, but it doesn't include a compressot tool, which it another Mot. tool again. BTW neither tools will be usable to do the valve stem seals on a 4/8/10/12, as those motors don't have valve stem seals as standard. If the problem can be ascertained to the top of the motor, it is worn guides and valves that will be causing the problem.


    Simon
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  25. #25
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    My problem is that there is a puff of blue smoke when I start my R12 after a run (and leaving it about 30 mins), but no other time. I assume that this would be oil coming down the guides. BTW the bottom end has fairly new liners, pistons, rings etc. Any comments about whether you think I'm right would be appreciated...

    Cheers

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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