Scenic info / opinions wanted
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Scenic info / opinions wanted

    If any Scenic owners would like to share their thoughts on the current models (sorry but not 4X4) with a potential new purchaser I would be very appreciative. Thanks, Cheers, Pete, Stdney.

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  2. #2
    rek
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    Can't help you with personal experience (I own a Pug) but here are a few reviews of the Scenic from eauto.com.au (one of the few Australian motoring sites that isn't inflicted with the "if it isnt an Aussie V8, it's no good" syndrome)

    Scenic: <a href="http://www.eauto.com.au/sharedarticles/Display_Article.asp?Articleid=371565539" target="_blank">http://www.eauto.com.au/sharedarticles/Display_Article.asp?Articleid=371565539</a>

    Scenic RX4: <a href="http://www.eauto.com.au/sharedarticles/Display_Article.asp?Articleid=373385714" target="_blank">http://www.eauto.com.au/sharedarticles/Display_Article.asp?Articleid=373385714</a>
    Peter
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  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Rek, Thanks for the sites and info. I am planning a purchase early next year and have the field down to three: Astra 2.2, Scenic or Pug 307.
    Not having been in the French car ownership area for some time I am having to catch up a lot.
    Thanks again, Pete, Sydney.

  4. #4
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by Peter Thomas:
    <strong>Rek, Thanks for the sites and info. I am planning a purchase early next year and have the field down to three: Astra 2.2, Scenic or Pug 307.
    Not having been in the French car ownership area for some time I am having to catch up a lot.
    Thanks again, Pete, Sydney.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Pete,

    Interesting and understandable choice. All pretty reasonable I suspect. We've had a 306 for nearly 7 years and I still just love it - no-one has ever managed such a combination of ride and handling. My only grumble has always been that I'd like it to be a bit higher, i.e. to be a 307!

    I drove a Scenic a couple of weeks ago. Very nice in lots of ways, and CLEVER. They're different in a nice French way, and I really liked the double aperture approach to the tailgate (i.e. you can open just the window if you want to). I liked the car a lot and they are very good value.

    Very much to my surprise, the only things I didn't think up to the mark were the front seats - something about size, shape and grip of the bit you sit on, and it's height above the floor, and the ride. The ride was supple enough but a bit thumpy, definitely without the finess of the Pug.

    Never driven an Astra. I imagine I'd like it from what I've read. Are they reliable in Europe?

    I'll bet the 307 has the lowest depreciation of the three when we look back in 5 years.

    None of this was what you were asking for, but it's a choice I've thought about.

    What I have ACTUALLY done is to buy a 2nd hand Citroen Xantia! For $20,000 you get a lot of engineering for a great price, given how they depreciate at first. A 405 with peaches and cream!

    What I PLANNED to do was wait until the Renault Kangoo arrives, to see which version(s) come to Australia. I reckon the Kangoo is a seriously interesting car.

    Cheers

    John W
    JohnW

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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by Peter Thomas:
    <strong>If any Scenic owners would like to share their thoughts on the current models (sorry but not 4X4) with a potential new purchaser I would be very appreciative. Thanks, Cheers, Pete, Stdney.</strong><hr></blockquote>
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Now I hate to be negative here, but I have to exhort you to repent your want for flashy new material things and get back to basics....as I write you have about ten minutes to get yourself and the roll of cash you were planning to spend on that Scenic and get down to Shannons in Cheltenham Vic to bid on a real Renault...R8 1135 G..you'd still have 10,000 or so left over to fix the house and buy the family a few baubles to placate them.
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  7. #7
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    Hi John,

    I love the Kangoo myself, as a concept - course I've never driven one.

    The Citroen C3 looks very promising; it's a 307 chassis with interesting Citroen-y looks, cues from the ripple bonnet 2 CV. And it looks even more spacious than the 307.

    Hmmm...might have to get one of these 306's...I've heard nothing but good reports.

    Stuey


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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    ..and as for the new Renaut Australia..a friend of mine went down the street on Saturday to buy a Scenic for his beloved.....as simple as that. The turkeys at the dealership told him that there was no auto option. We're not talking RX4 here..just the 2 wheel drive variety.

    The upshot of this being that the fools lost what would have been a certain sale......whatever happened to product knowledge or honesty for that matter?
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Hello John, Thank you for your comments on the 306 and the choice too. I looked hard at the 306 too but had a few points I was not happy about: Spare wheel being outside not secured in the boot (Had one pinched from company 4x4 a while ago) limited sorage inside. Certainly not enough on one item to make or not make a sale but adding them up I opted for the Astra instead until last Thursday when I noticed the 307 appeared in the local dealer showroom.Esentially it answeres all my concerns about the 306 but the Astra is still a good alternative. In 2.2 more economical, has cruise control but only available in 3 door and limited rear seat space. Better waranty though (3 years / 100 000lms not 2 yrs unlimited) and a few nice touches too. Pull the bonnet release and a small tab appears in the grill;pull the tab and lift the bonnet. No diving under to grope for the bonnet release. BTW checked out Choice magazine for recall / defect notices on the Astra and none issued - ever. The Scenic...same thoughts here. Very clever in many ways but disappointed in the seats. Fronts were very ordinary and the rear 3 accross means 3 narrow seats for whoever sits there. So at this stage it is down to the Astra or 307. Ahhh decisions, decisions. Cheers, Pete.

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    BogMaster. I am currently driving a Commodore and you don't get more basic than that ! Memories of my much loved 16TS Auto came back when I sat in the 307 but not in the Scenic which really surprised me. As for the sales perons ; these days they are selling the latest "amazing market leader concept" and basically get them off the standard speil and they are lost. Sad but true.
    Keep posting. Cheers, Pete, Sydney.

  11. #11
    rek
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    [quote]Originally posted by Stuey:
    <strong>The Citroen C3 looks very promising; it's a 307 chassis with interesting Citroen-y looks, cues from the ripple bonnet 2 CV. And it looks even more spacious than the 307.</strong><hr></blockquote>
    Just a correction -- the Citroen C3 is actually built on an all-new platform (which AFAIK will be what the Peugeot 207 will end up being built on, when the time comes)
    Peter
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  12. #12
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Pete

    If you want a large dealer network, the Astra decides for itself.

    If you have/want/need a French love affair, the 307 sells itself.

    I suspect the Astra is a pretty good car but the Peugeot will have the edge in driving engineering and may even hold its value better.

    Sounds like we both rejected the Scenic!

    There must be a 306 runout coming - the last may be the best built?

    The Citroen C3 will undoubtedly be very good indeed but will depreciate much more than the 307.

    Our recent Xantia purchase must be the way to go - half price after 5 years and 18,000 km. Perhaps you should wait!!!!
    JohnW

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  13. #13
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    Rek, actually, yeah, I've said 307 twice now on here, but it's the 207 and 107 that'll have the C3 chassis. Thanks for setting that straight.

    (Interesting fact - the climate control on th C3 changes it's air distribution to account for the lack of heat radiation at night.)

    Peter: maybe think about resale value too; how much will the comparatively upmarket Peugeot be (at least here) vs. the Holden, in a few years?

    Stuey


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  14. #14
    rek
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    [quote]Originally posted by JohnW:
    <strong>There must be a 306 runout coming - the last may be the best built?</strong><hr></blockquote>
    The 306 "Rallye" model (that's been on sale here for the past few months) is the end of life run-out, according to my local dealer. (they actually come with a lot of things as standard, too.)

    I don't think 306s have been available in Europe anymore for a little while; it's all 307s now there. So I guess the 306s we are getting here are amongst the last.
    Peter
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  15. #15
    Tadpole
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    Thanks to all those who took the time to share their thoughts on this topic. Your input is most welcome. Stuey and John W: The devlaluation points are well made. Peronally I have never figured depreciation into the calculations since I normally buy cars about once every 10 years so by the time the next one comes around they are scrap value only. Will the Astra hold up as well? Time will tell I guess. Thanks again to all.
    Cheers, Pete, Sydney.

  16. #16
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by Peter Thomas:
    <strong>Thanks to all those who took the time to share their thoughts on this topic. Your input is most welcome. Stuey and John W: The devlaluation points are well made. Peronally I have never figured depreciation into the calculations since I normally buy cars about once every 10 years so by the time the next one comes around they are scrap value only. Will the Astra hold up as well? Time will tell I guess. Thanks again to all.
    Cheers, Pete, Sydney.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Pete,

    Just one thing - if you buy a 307 it definitely won't be just "scrap value" in 10 years. Peugeots just last longer than that if serviced. Our 7 year 306 drives more or less like new.

    John W.
    JohnW

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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Jez 405's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by rek:
    <strong>
    The 306 "Rallye" model (that's been on sale here for the past few months) is the end of life run-out, according to my local dealer. (they actually come with a lot of things as standard, too.)

    I don't think 306s have been available in Europe anymore for a little while; it's all 307s now there. So I guess the 306s we are getting here are amongst the last.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Is that 306 Rallye anything like the six-speed, GTi-engined European 306 Rallye (probably not if its a runout model)? That car looks like a real blast - no sound deadening, lighter glass, no air-con.... basically Peugeot's equivalent of the Honda Integra Type-R. Delicious!
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  18. #18
    rek
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    [quote]Originally posted by Jez 405:
    <strong>Is that 306 Rallye anything like the six-speed, GTi-engined European 306 Rallye (probably not if its a runout model)? That car looks like a real blast - no sound deadening, lighter glass, no air-con.... basically Peugeot's equivalent of the Honda Integra Type-R. Delicious!</strong><hr></blockquote>
    No. It's basically a 306 XT filled to the brim with optional extras, to get them off the showroom floor ASAP.

    306 GTi6/"real" Rallye production stopped after 2000 due to emissions standards (or something like that.)
    Peter
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  19. #19
    Tadpole
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    John, Sorry if that comment came out the wrong way. My Commodore is thirteen years old and has 447 000 kms on it and runs perfectly so I do understand what you are saying about maintenance and taking care of the car. The suggestion was meant to be that I don't place a great emphasis on the depreciation side of car ownership. BTW the 307 has a couple of interesting points I have not yet mentioned. The bonnet is aluminium, the front guards are plastic and the windscreen is heat reflective. There is also a facility to channel the a/c via the glove box as a drinks cooler. Nice touches. A test drive is next up see how they go in day to day driving. Cheers, Pete.

  20. #20
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    Ahhh..Peugeot steals the drinks cooler idea from the '78 Toyota Crown. What next, a big cheesy chrome grille ;D

    There was also a 106 Rallye that was stripped out and had a 8000 rpm red line, ala Honda again.

    Cheers

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  21. #21
    Tadpole
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    The latest Wheels mag is very negative about the Scenic, especially rattles and other quality items. What Car in the UK are also pretty disparaging about the Scenic quality, especially when compared to Japanese cars. I drove the Scenic 2.0 auto and Holden Zafira auto (basically a 2.2 7-seat Astra) recently. Holden were quoting $36 on road for the Zafira, Renault $33 for the Dynamic auto (in Sydney's east). The same Renault dealer admitted that the Nissan vehicles they sell along side were better made. He said the Scenic rattled because it was"hand made". they offer a 6 year warranty but it makes you wonder...

  22. #22
    Tadpole
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    Mark, Thanks for your comments too. I can't help thnking the Scenic is a brilliant "ideas" car which really should work but for whatever reason simply fails to get there. The rear seats are 3 accross which allows for a small table to appear whern the middle seat back is folded forward but doesn't answer my main comlpaint which is the seats themselves are too narrow for adults and extra taable space and elbow room is not the solution.I used to own a 16TS Auto (brilliant but needed a 4 speed box) and I really wanted to like the Scenic but as a package it fell short. Pity it really deserved better.
    BTW the prices quoted in Brookvale (nearest dealer to me here in Palm Beach) are:
    Expression 1.6 Man on road $28 879
    Dynamic 2.0 Man/Auto o/rd $31 238/33,298
    Priviledge 2.0 M/A o/rd $36 244/38 304.Cheers, Pete.Sydney.

  23. #23
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    BTW there's going to be a 307SW wagon with either seven or five seats...

    Stuey


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  24. #24
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    Interesting to see the comments regarding the Scenic, I tend to agree that it seems a great idea spoilt in its execution.

    Sure there may be 18 storage compartments but all are too small to accommodate a UBD/Sydways/Melways/Perthways etc mapbook. The rear seats are also too small seemingly coming from something like a Hillman Imp, and by now you would think there is a beter way of storing them in the car rather than taking them out like a 1961 R4 rear seat.

    It doesn't really seem to be an advance in design over say a 1985 Mitsubishi Nimbus. It is unfortunate that Renault still cannot get rid of interior rattles too. One other thing just reading todays paper, the Scenic is also the most expensive people mover, not to mention vehicle, to repair in the sample of 42 that has just gone through the latest NRMA crash test. The cost being $7539, or 25.2% of its purchase price, to repair the vehicle after a 15km/h crash with a solid object or 30km/h prang with the rear of another vehicle. (Other vehicles included Falcon $2295, WRX $4207, Subaru Outback $3829, Mazda Premacy $6302, Holden Vectra $4926)

    This news is bad for insurance premiums and sort of perpetuates the myth I have been trying to dispel for many years, when I get asked, "Aren't parts expensive for your Renolt".

    Simon
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  25. #25
    Tadpole
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    Simon, It is sad to hear of the poor standard of build quality and price of spare parts prices. My brother owns a SAAB (for the first and last time he tells me) and is about to change over to something slse for the very same reasons. High insurance costs and service costs. BTW my Citroens (CX and D) and Renault (16 TS Auto) were replaced with my current Commodore also for that reason. Great ideas amd "concepts" are not enough.If the car makers cannot get the basics right then all the extra bells and whistles won't get the customers in and the cars out. Come on...C5's in the showroom with rust in the panels? Scenics with built in rattles? In 2001 almost 2002. No thanks. Cheers,Pete, Sydney.

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