16TS auto problem!
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  1. #1
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    Default 16TS auto problem!

    and just when i'm getting it ready for sale ....

    the auto (when cold) starts off in 2nd gear, tho its fine if I manually select 1st, and when it does get to top gear it will drop back to 2nd for no apparent reason and hold it for any length of time. its fine when its hot, changes perfectly.

    I've cleaned the connectors on the computer, thinking it might be that, but no, not that. The 'box looks like its been overfilled, but according to the transmission specialist where the car is currently sitting, thats not the cause ... he says that it looks like there is metal in the box but will know more when he takes the sump off and will try a few things ... fingers crossed!

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    Any ideas anyone?

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trackyellow
    and just when i'm getting it ready for sale ....

    the auto (when cold) starts off in 2nd gear, tho its fine if I manually select 1st, and when it does get to top gear it will drop back to 2nd for no apparent reason and hold it for any length of time. its fine when its hot, changes perfectly.

    I've cleaned the connectors on the computer, thinking it might be that, but no, not that. The 'box looks like its been overfilled, but according to the transmission specialist where the car is currently sitting, thats not the cause ... he says that it looks like there is metal in the box but will know more when he takes the sump off and will try a few things ... fingers crossed!

    Any ideas anyone?
    There may be an old or ex-Renault dealer who still has the plug-in diagnostic box for the Renault automatic boxes of that era.

    From the passenger seat, using the diagnostic tool, you have complete control over the transmission, whilst also testing the operation of the computer & the internal electric solenoid valves.

    A common problem was the failure of the pressure regulating capsule (sometimes referred to as the vaccuum capsule). Remove the vacuum line from the capsule (at the gear-box), and check for the presence of transmission fluid in the line. If fluid is present, the capsule diaphragm is leaking, which ultimately means that the engine will be sucking ATF from the gearbox as you drive, as well as causing eratic & occasionally harsh gear changes.

    I suspect, though, that your problem may lie elsewhere.

    Cheers,
    Kim.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    The capacitors can fail in the "computer" - this is normal deterioration of electronic components - I have heard of them being repaired without much difficulty (it's a pretty simple device) - not sure who can help these days, been a long time since I've heard of it being done...
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys - i think the vacuum line is okay as it doesn't blow smoke (but I will check!), luckily I do have a spare box which in itself is great ... the downside? its still in the donor car!! I might try and swap the computer gizmo first ....
    cheers frank

  5. #5
    farmerdave
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    Definitely not the vacuum capsule.
    Sounds a lot like an electric problem, either a bad solenoid, poor connection or something grounding in the solenoid circuit.
    You would expect some metal in the pan if the car has been started off in 2nd, if the controller totally fails it drops to 3rd and this will destroy the linings very quickly if the car is driven stop-start.
    Yes the capacitors in the controller do deteriorate, but the transistors that do the shifting are more likely to be a problem as they normally have no protection against spikes when power to the solenoids is cut off.
    The B Vi test box is a handy thing, but the functions can be tested with a meter and/or a pair of test bulbs

  6. #6
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerdave
    Definitely not the vacuum capsule.
    Sounds a lot like an electric problem, either a bad solenoid, poor connection or something grounding in the solenoid circuit.
    You would expect some metal in the pan if the car has been started off in 2nd, if the controller totally fails it drops to 3rd and this will destroy the linings very quickly if the car is driven stop-start.
    Yes the capacitors in the controller do deteriorate, but the transistors that do the shifting are more likely to be a problem as they normally have no protection against spikes when power to the solenoids is cut off.
    The B Vi test box is a handy thing, but the functions can be tested with a meter and/or a pair of test bulbs
    The usual issues! Who actually can provide advice in Perth? Metal in a sump not dropped for years may not be a diagnostic - seems to me that there's a whole range of electrical issues to try and sort before believing there's a mechanical problem. Unfortunately I've no relevant experience except the "stand back and think" area.

    Good luck Frank.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Could just be the fuse...
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  8. #8
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    Got the car back yesterday, diagnosis was excessive metal and friction material found in sump and suspects sticking valves due to same. He kept the filter which he opened up and yep, full of gunk. Its still taking off in second and jumping back to second from top for a much shorter time than it used to when its cold, so it is an improevment. Funny thing is, it will take off in first if I use the column shift manually. However, i will start at the fuse (presumably under the black plastic cover on the inside passenger fender) and then the computer and whatever else electrical from the donor box. Will keep you posted. The gearbox ws overhauled in '92, so maybe its due for another birthday ...

  9. #9
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trackyellow
    Got the car back yesterday, diagnosis was excessive metal and friction material found in sump and suspects sticking valves due to same. He kept the filter which he opened up and yep, full of gunk. Its still taking off in second and jumping back to second from top for a much shorter time than it used to when its cold, so it is an improevment. Funny thing is, it will take off in first if I use the column shift manually. However, i will start at the fuse (presumably under the black plastic cover on the inside passenger fender) and then the computer and whatever else electrical from the donor box. Will keep you posted. The gearbox ws overhauled in '92, so maybe its due for another birthday ...
    Might need several changes to flush more gunge out of some key valve area or areas?

    I'd also take notice of the threads to be found in the Citroen and Peugeot sites about auto fluids - there is a trend to use Dexron III as a substitute for Dexron II, because it is newer and people think it is therefore the newer version of Dexron II. However they are different and Dex.III causes problems it seems in Dex II spec. boxes. So I'd do a bit of fluid research and make sure you are really sure it has the lubricant it should have.

    The fact that it has changed with cleaning out may or may not indicate it is or it isn't electrical!!! I'd be able to advance arguments both ways at this stage!!

    Best of luck.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    Citroën CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europa
    Could just be the fuse...
    If it is the fuse the box will stay in top and you can't select first.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Yep good point. Probably wouldn't hurt to check the condition of the wiring there anyway - maybe a oxidised connection causing a voltage drop and then the computer having some problems. I remember having an auto computer failure once that manifested itself when an electric window was used - voltage drop cause the computer to change from 3rd to 2nd (or was it 2nd to 3rd? can't recall!)
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  12. #12
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    hi Guys
    cleaned all the connections (still getting to the fuse tho!) and yesterday it an a treat, however, the motor had been idling and was fully warmed up when i took it out.

    So this morning, when all cold, it was back to the bad ol' habit of taking off in 2nd (unless I select 1st manually) and kicking back and holding 2nd from top gear. oh dear. will swap all electrics (and clean up the fuse) from the donor NEXT weekend ... stay tuned.

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