Some Basic (?) Fuego Questions
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  1. #1
    Tadpole JKang's Avatar
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    Default Some Basic (?) Fuego Questions

    Hi all,
    I have a 1984 GTX 2litre. Started flatspotting at a throttle position equivalent to about 2,000rpm when stationary. Eurocare here in Perth had previously solved a similar problem. The problem is not progressive and only came on yesterday on the way back from a gig.

    On a separate issue, my cooling fans only seem to kick in midway between the halfway mark and the start of the red-zone on the temp guage. Is this normal? This is not a problem when there is airflow. Only while stationary.

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    Lastly, another somewhat wierd problem. The '10,000s' unit on the odometer seems to 'stick' to the '1,000s' unit, resulting in much higher mileage than I've done. Any way of solving this problem?

    Would appreciate some advice, as I'm quite reluctant to muck around with the car on my own. The paintwork is otherwise still very good, but there is slight cracking right above where majority of the engine heat is concentrated on the hood. Anything I can do to minimise any further paintwear?

    Thanks again!

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Hello Jkang.Are you a muso?or was it someone elses gig?
    enough questions,now for some answers.
    Dont know much about carbies, but the first thing I'd check is all my polution gear to check it is all conected.
    With the cooling system, My fuego has a thermostat that opens to alow the water to flow through the radiator.The thermal switch on the bottom half of the radiator should turn the thermo fans on just a little hotter than this temp, so the threshold between thermostat opening and switch switching is quite low.By the sound of it the difference in your car between the two is quite high.My car maintains a tem of 89 degrees with this set up, and the fans cycle quite often.Maybe get a thermometer into the coolent to check your temperature thresholds.I can measure mine if you want to compare the two.
    Thethermo fan switch switch might be shot, or the water might not be reaching it due to a blocked radiator.or your temp guage might be shot and everything is working fine, or your temp guage sender might be faulty.You wont realy know until you stick a thermometer in.(Guessing that if your paint is suffering,there might be a problem.)
    The odometer is a common fault with fuego's.I think they have nylon gears.One of mine did 100 000 km a second.There is a guy local to me, who repairs instruments and for $100 repaired my odometer, and put new needles on my dash.I know of at least 5 fuego's that have had his treatment, and I totally recomend this guy.If you want ,I can find his number.
    Jo

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts The Gonz's Avatar
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    Default Fuego Q&A

    Mate, my 85 Fuego's temp needle is at 50% when normal and the fan kicks in at 55% without fail, just for 30 secs or so. It definitely kicks in when idling.

    I'd check hoses for airleaks regarding the flat spot, not forgetting the vacuum advance.

    You can try carefully poking a needle (compass point or large safety pin) between the odometer rollers to loosen them up and create some separation, but then, I'm a real hack - I'm the guy with toothpicks on my dials!

    Keep the questions coming!

  4. #4
    Tadpole JKang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    Hello Jkang.Are you a muso?or was it someone elses gig?
    enough questions,now for some answers.
    Dont know much about carbies, but the first thing I'd check is all my polution gear to check it is all conected.
    With the cooling system, My fuego has a thermostat that opens to alow the water to flow through the radiator.The thermal switch on the bottom half of the radiator should turn the thermo fans on just a little hotter than this temp, so the threshold between thermostat opening and switch switching is quite low.By the sound of it the difference in your car between the two is quite high.My car maintains a tem of 89 degrees with this set up, and the fans cycle quite often.Maybe get a thermometer into the coolent to check your temperature thresholds.I can measure mine if you want to compare the two.
    Thethermo fan switch switch might be shot, or the water might not be reaching it due to a blocked radiator.or your temp guage might be shot and everything is working fine, or your temp guage sender might be faulty.You wont realy know until you stick a thermometer in.(Guessing that if your paint is suffering,there might be a problem.)
    The odometer is a common fault with fuego's.I think they have nylon gears.One of mine did 100 000 km a second.There is a guy local to me, who repairs instruments and for $100 repaired my odometer, and put new needles on my dash.I know of at least 5 fuego's that have had his treatment, and I totally recomend this guy.If you want ,I can find his number.
    Jo
    Thanks Jo.

    I've just graduated from uni and work as a bassist in a cover band here in Perth. I daresay I've got one of the most unique 'equipment transporters' amongst the musos here. Everyone else is still using AUs and the like. My original plan was to get a 405mi16 (couldn't fit all my gear in) or a BX Sauvage (two of my mates beat me to a pair of matching white and black ones). I then decided on the Fuego and it took me a few weeks of searching to find this one.

    'Nyways, the previous owner had bypassed the thermostat altogether, resulting in the fans always being on. I didn't think this was a good idea and my mechanic advised me that he'd run a test on the cooling system and with this setup, the car was running too cold. He proceeded to restore the thermostat and switches to its original settings.

    Before the onset of summer, Eurocare did a cooling systems assessment and gave a report of everything being in order. I rather trust these guys. One of the few reputable french car garages still left.

    Jonathan

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    You and me both.I play trumpet and piano accordion(concurently) for a job.You are lucky that you have a good french garage at your disposal.The last one for about 30km closed shop here last year, and I've been orphand ever since.Still manage to keep the old girl running in spite of this.
    Its good to have you onboard,JKang,and happy fuegoing.
    jo

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    Default Contact ken at Caravelle

    Give Ken Bailey at Caravelle a ring in Melbourne - He will supply a pug temperature switch that operates the fans at a slightly lower temperature and may cure the summer overheating.

    There are lots of things that can cause minor overheating, including blockages in aging rubber transfer hoses - but as you have had the coolling system checked, they should have done those investigations for you - the fact that the previous owner had by passed the heat switch , to me indicates he felt the cooling system was failing.

    Overheating due to leaking radiator, failed water pump seal, Leaking heater tap (look for either rust or coolant stains) can stress the system and even though you fix these issues, the overheating seems to linger!!

    Radiator caps are normally sealed down and when opened a few times can weep through poor rubber seals or leak tracking on the bakelite - the seal on the expansion bottle is worth a good inspection too.

    Any loss of pressure will encourage the coolant to boil!!

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    Default Odometer resetting

    There is a US technical bulletin of May 1982 #82 -11
    That describes how to reset replacement odometers for 18's and Fuego.

    1. Insert Business card or similar item between odometer numerals and numeral lock tabs (Angled edge inserted in the housing furthest away from the needle dial side of the numeral rollers) Hope I got that description right (if not I can copy Figure one illustration in the bulletin!!)

    2. Rotate odometer numerals to required settings.

    3. Remove card and verify that numerals are in required positions and are locked in place.

    Too simple really - now for all the low km Fuego's for sale!! in moststates that is illegal!!

    Probably best to get another unit from a donor car and get its internal mechanisim checked over, then reset to same km as your old unit (of course) and return to car.

    Then pull the old one apart and figure how it works and what caused it to fail!! Don't bother trying to re-assemble!! the bits

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    Try some adhesive/bituminous backed heavy duty foil or underbonnet felt. Some cars use this under the bonnet to protect against heat transfer/re-radiation. I have seen one early Fuego with this option.

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    Thanks so much for your time and advice, everyone. I really appreciate it.

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    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    Welcome Jkang
    what you're describing regards your thermo fans doesn't sound like overheating to me! My original fuego's fans used to cut in just under the start of the red & the car had no problems with overheating, even in traffic jams
    The fuego motors are designed to run fairly hot, as long as the thermo fans keep the needle out of the red...they're fine!

    As for the flat spotting...I used to have the same thing on initial acceleration...which disapeared when I had the hiclone installed...so I'm guessing that it may have something to do with the intake aspiration....

    Is Eurocare north of Perth? in a suburb starting with "O"? (I can't remember the name)
    If it is...(I think) these are the guys who worked on my car when I drove to Perth (new part failure...rear main seal...up the Madura pass, saw my car in for a new clutch, for the second time in 2 weeks!!! ) The guy who ran the place was the ex service manager from Ivanhoe motors (Vic) & he knew his stuff!!! fantastic bloke & excellent mechanic! (reasonably priced too!) If it's the same place, with the same guys....I can highly recomend them!

    Aus
    P.S. your car looks great BTW!!!!
    Aus
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    The bottom is the area that runs out of oxygen first, it is where the most oxygen is used........"



    '84 fuego GTX
    '87 fuego GTX
    '85 fuego GTX
    ....beginning to look a bit frightning isn't it.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about your cooling system a bit, and the more I think about it the more I think you radiator is cactus.Assuming the guys actually did check the cooling system, It is not Ok.It might be considered ,by some, normal for a renault to get hot, but it is wrong and will eventually lead to strife.(umm paint blisters???)
    When the fuego system works, It ,works damn well, and the only trouble I've encountered is when crawling up realy steep hils, in major traffic ,first or second gear on a +30 day.Then the temp will climb to 3/4 , but I've never had my needle in the red.If your radiators internals are shot,the correct volume of water will not flow, and often by the time it does meander around to the fan thermo switch,which is at the end of the radiator,it has cooled too well as the radiators externals are still working fine.You can check this by feeling the botom of the DS tank.If your radiator is fine, then there might be something wrong with your thermal switch, but I still think it is the radiator core.As far as I'm concerned, $150-200 for a radiator recore is the best insurance against overheating you can provide.I believe that any other sceme devised to deal with the excess heat,like removing thermostat,or lowering the fan cut-in threshold will just cause the cooling system to depart even further from its designed operating range, and cost you wasted $$$$$.Good for a quick fix,though.
    Jo

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    Tadpole JKang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Australdi
    Welcome Jkang
    what you're describing regards your thermo fans doesn't sound like overheating to me! My original fuego's fans used to cut in just under the start of the red & the car had no problems with overheating, even in traffic jams
    The fuego motors are designed to run fairly hot, as long as the thermo fans keep the needle out of the red...they're fine!

    As for the flat spotting...I used to have the same thing on initial acceleration...which disapeared when I had the hiclone installed...so I'm guessing that it may have something to do with the intake aspiration....

    Is Eurocare north of Perth? in a suburb starting with "O"? (I can't remember the name)
    If it is...(I think) these are the guys who worked on my car when I drove to Perth (new part failure...rear main seal...up the Madura pass, saw my car in for a new clutch, for the second time in 2 weeks!!! ) The guy who ran the place was the ex service manager from Ivanhoe motors (Vic) & he knew his stuff!!! fantastic bloke & excellent mechanic! (reasonably priced too!) If it's the same place, with the same guys....I can highly recomend them!

    Aus
    P.S. your car looks great BTW!!!!
    Thanks mate. Eurocare is just a stones' throw from the Burswood casino, off Shepperton Road in Victoria Park even though it is technically in the Burswood suburb. (And excellent Italian chilli mussels round the corner).

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    Tadpole JKang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    I've been thinking about your cooling system a bit, and the more I think about it the more I think you radiator is cactus.Assuming the guys actually did check the cooling system, It is not Ok.It might be considered ,by some, normal for a renault to get hot, but it is wrong and will eventually lead to strife.(umm paint blisters???)
    When the fuego system works, It ,works damn well, and the only trouble I've encountered is when crawling up realy steep hils, in major traffic ,first or second gear on a +30 day.Then the temp will climb to 3/4 , but I've never had my needle in the red.If your radiators internals are shot,the correct volume of water will not flow, and often by the time it does meander around to the fan thermo switch,which is at the end of the radiator,it has cooled too well as the radiators externals are still working fine.You can check this by feeling the botom of the DS tank.If your radiator is fine, then there might be something wrong with your thermal switch, but I still think it is the radiator core.As far as I'm concerned, $150-200 for a radiator recore is the best insurance against overheating you can provide.I believe that any other sceme devised to deal with the excess heat,like removing thermostat,or lowering the fan cut-in threshold will just cause the cooling system to depart even further from its designed operating range, and cost you wasted $$$$$.Good for a quick fix,though.
    Jo
    Hi Jo.
    What's "DS" and could you explain a radiator recore and the reasons for such a procedure? Thanks!

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    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKang
    Hi Jo.
    What's "DS" and could you explain a radiator recore and the reasons for such a procedure? Thanks!
    Sometimes the core is blocked, usually in lower section and it can only be cleaned by removing tanks and in older cars the core may not be be sound enough for this to be done.
    Caravelle in Melbourne has new radiators and we recently got one shipped to Perth for a friend.
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    I had the same problem years ago in my R18. After replacing bloody near everything to no avail, it turned out to be the EGR valve. Replaced that, problem solvered.
    Armageddon was yesterday
    Today we have a problem


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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKang
    Hi Jo.
    What's "DS" and could you explain a radiator recore and the reasons for such a procedure? Thanks!
    sorry for the delay. Ds=drivers side.Ps=passenger side.
    Basicly the radiator consist of two end tanks,made of plastic, and a'core' in between these tanks. The Ds tank is partitioned half way down and the top half is sending the hot water through the top half of the core to the Ps tank,wherin the water is redirected back via the lower half of the core to the Ds lower half. This is ,as both inlet and outlet are on the same side. The core is the metalic bit with all the cooling fins wraped around the flat pipes and does the job of radiating the heat from the water inside these pipes. The tanks themselves can be attatched to a new core,and this is a job that any radiator shop could perform for probably less than a new radiator.best would be to shop around, and get some quotes.If a new one is cheaper, obviosly go with that.Included are some photos of both an original alloy radiator,next to a re-cored copper?? one, and you get a decent veiw of the end tanks.
    Jo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Some Basic (?) Fuego Questions-recored-rad.jpg   Some Basic (?) Fuego Questions-both-rads.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    sorry for the delay. Ds=drivers side.Ps=passenger side.
    Basicly the radiator consist of two end tanks,made of plastic, and a'core' in between these tanks. The Ds tank is partitioned half way down and the top half is sending the hot water through the top half of the core to the Ps tank,wherin the water is redirected back via the lower half of the core to the Ds lower half. This is ,as both inlet and outlet are on the same side. The core is the metalic bit with all the cooling fins wraped around the flat pipes and does the job of radiating the heat from the water inside these pipes. The tanks themselves can be attatched to a new core,and this is a job that any radiator shop could perform for probably less than a new radiator.best would be to shop around, and get some quotes.If a new one is cheaper, obviosly go with that.Included are some photos of both an original alloy radiator,next to a re-cored copper?? one, and you get a decent veiw of the end tanks.
    Jo
    Thanks! I'll speak to the garage about this. Once again, I appreciate the advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gonz
    Mate, my 85 Fuego's temp needle is at 50% when normal and the fan kicks in at 55% without fail, just for 30 secs or so. It definitely kicks in when idling.

    I'd check hoses for airleaks regarding the flat spot, not forgetting the vacuum advance.

    You can try carefully poking a needle (compass point or large safety pin) between the odometer rollers to loosen them up and create some separation, but then, I'm a real hack - I'm the guy with toothpicks on my dials!

    Keep the questions coming!
    All hoses in the carbuerettor area seem to be connected. There is vibration when the car is stationery once the revs get up to 2k rpm. I can also hear mild burbling coming from the exhaust and the revs fluctuate at that throttle position.

    Is there anything else I can do before I check her into the garage?

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    The problem you are describing is likely to be same issue that many Fuego's have and takes all of 5 minutes to rectify...

    On the Passenger side of the carby (towards the front, just under the snorkel) you will find a small solenoid.

    It is fixed by a small allen key grub screw. Loosen the grub screw (don't remove it altogether) and unscrew the solenoid using the screwdriver slot built into the back of it...

    Once removed, you will find a small brass jet (same as any other weber carby) located at the end of it. It can be removed from the solenoid (you may need pliers).

    Once removed, you will most likely find you cannot see through the hole in the end of the jet... this is not good.

    Clean the jet (with compressed air or a strand cut from a wire brush)

    Reinstall and start the car. Chances are the flatspot will be gone, it will be much easier to drive in traffic and your fuel economy will improve to boot.

    You may need to re-adjust the idle volume and mixture and fit a new fuel filter...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    The problem you are describing is likely to be same issue that many Fuego's have and takes all of 5 minutes to rectify...

    On the Passenger side of the carby (towards the front, just under the snorkel) you will find a small solenoid.

    It is fixed by a small allen key grub screw. Loosen the grub screw (don't remove it altogether) and unscrew the solenoid using the screwdriver slot built into the back of it...

    Once removed, you will find a small brass jet (same as any other weber carby) located at the end of it. It can be removed from the solenoid (you may need pliers).

    Once removed, you will most likely find you cannot see through the hole in the end of the jet... this is not good.

    Clean the jet (with compressed air or a strand cut from a wire brush)

    Reinstall and start the car. Chances are the flatspot will be gone, it will be much easier to drive in traffic and your fuel economy will improve to boot.

    You may need to re-adjust the idle volume and mixture and fit a new fuel filter...
    This sounds really pleb of me, but I'm having some trouble locating this solenoid you speak of. Not too technically-inclined as far as cars are concerned; bass guitars are more my thing

    Do you think you could provide some photos or some sort of diagram as assistance? I assume you're talking about the area underneath the big corrugated black hose (snorkel?) that runs from the cylindrical air cleaner?

    Thanks again!

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    Default Thumbnail attached.

    Hopefully you will be able to see the solenoids on this pic - helps to have a Haynes Manual also when figuring out problems on the Fuego.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Some Basic (?) Fuego Questions-fuego-carby-solenoids.jpg  

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    Just tried mistareno's suggestion. the problem is still there. hesitation and burbling at that specific t throttle position. Idle and anything above it is fine.
    Last edited by JKang; 17th January 2006 at 05:42 AM.

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    Default Try the Nulon Carbie Cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKang
    Just tried mistareno's suggestion. the problem is still there. hesitation and burbling at that specific t throttle position. Idle and anything above it is fine.

    Take the shroud off the top on the carby spray some Nulon cleaner down the throat of the carby and also into the jets (towards the front of the car at top of the carby housing) while the engine is operating.

    If you have access to compressed air, blow that through the main jets at the same time - other method if you dont have compressed air handly is to rev motor and cover carby top with hand and this creates a lot of suction through the jets and may dislodge dirt from the internal jets.

    The Nulon treatment tends to clean off the spark plug internals also. Take care you don't get any sprayback into your eyes when using the carby cleaner.

    I used to recommend running mostly Optimax through the Fuego until Shell upped the price difference to 10 cents a litre above unleaded as this seemed to help keep the carby clean etc... Oh well might be worth a try in your case, and I would replace the in line fuel filter if that hasn't already been done.

    Ken

    There was a Haynes Fuego manual on Ebay recently, they come up from time to time.

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    The car ran well for a few weeks and some sort of problem is back again! Aaarrghh.

    I basically can get it to rev and accelerate but not hold at a higher rev....the revs drop as if the engine is somehow being 'strangled' and giving it more juice progressively only makes the revs drop further. If I give it a quick stab power surges back. Likewise, if I release the throttle slightly I get a momentary stab of power before the whole thing comes back again.

    Sounds like a fuelflow or air/fuel problem?

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    OK, what was done to solve the problem prior to the new problem? Iím wondering if it is a spark plug or plug lead breaking down? Or top dead centre sensor, sounds like it is more ignition than fuel if it only occurs at certain revs, also wondering if it is a weak fuel pump?

    Also only being at certain revs, it could be a incorrectly placed, dislodged or leaking vacuum hose for the emissions giving an air leak.

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