renault fuel tanks
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default renault fuel tanks

    just wondering if anyone has ever heard of an aftermarket fuel tank for a renault 12?
    or if anyone has ever had a custon tank made?
    i have some severe rust issues in mine and am getting sick of not being able to drive it. would anyone know what it would be worth to have an alloy tank made for a 12?
    thanks

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  2. #2
    Simon's Avatar
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    Id say getting a tank fabricated would likely cost more than the old 12 is worth. Probably best doing a trawl of the Pick-A-Part wreckers for another tank. I've heard previous prices for around $500 for a 30 odd litre tank, but don't know what was included in that cost.

    OTOH a nice alloy drop tank would look kinda cool hanging underneath the 12 in an A9X kind of way, that is until you encountered the first spoony :-)

  3. #3
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    Default Depends how far you want to drive!

    Have a look in a boating shop at the removable tanks of the type that connect to outboard motors - might be able to be fitted securely in the space of the old tank and modified for in-car filling and outside venting.

    Just a suggestion. of course a trip to the wrecker cum- pick-a-part, might turn up an available car tank that can be modified to fit.

    Like anything a replacement can be hand made, but it would be time consuming to make yourself (hard yakka beating it out and doing the flanges) and you would need access to a seam welder. There are automatic pressing machines that can form web stiffeners in a tank shape.

    I previously enrolled in a "post Apprentice Course" in panel beating, but don't know if those still exist. It was much less expensive than enrolling in a similar Hobby course and you did get to make all sorts of shapes and objects.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! G4ME's Avatar
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    For what it's worth I just went through a similar exercise with my R17. Severe flaking rust in the tank sort of made the injectors and car run like crap.
    Not being able to source a 2nd hand 17TS tank I had to get a 17TL tank modified (baffles, different outlets etc). They cut the top open and did what they had to do.

    So as a suggestion, find a used tank and get one of the specialist tank places to open it up and clean it out properly.

    As a further suggestion I also put a drain plug in the bottom so that when the car sits for periods of time the fuel can be drained out and minimise the rust.

    Hope this helps in some way.
    There is a law against doing more than 100kmh...there's no law on how fast you get to 100kmh!!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4ME
    the car sits for periods of time the fuel can be drained out and minimise the rust.
    Apparently the best way to prevent rust in the tank when the car is stored is to keep it full of fuel. This prevents condensation forming in the tank which then drips into the fuel and finds its way to the bottom of the tank causing rust.

  6. #6
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    Default Fuel Tank

    I am not sure if I totally understand the problem but, great product is Fuel Tank sealer mareted by the POR 15 people. Permanent Painted coatings. Follow the instructions and you won't have any metal exposed to the inside. It is used by lots of aircraft etc to seal. I have used it on a number of cars.
    Another solution is to take the tank out, throw in a handful of nuts and rattle it round lots. These take off the crap on the inside. Flush it out well, Hey presto, bright inside.
    Solution 3, get the largest stainlees steel sink you can find (or two), weld either a flat plate over the top, install fittings, ie pick up filler, breather and you have a bright shiny stainlees tank. If you use 2 identical ones face to face you now have double the volume. It is worth thinking about some baffles to minimise the slosh. This is commonly used for boat tanks.(if you are a cheap arse like me!)
    Option 4 go talk to a bulder of large boats, they will have a tank fabricator available to them.
    Cost, Optin2 is free,option 1 costs bugger all, 3 who knows what you paid for the sinks? 4 depends!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwia110
    I am not sure if I totally understand the problem but, great product is Fuel Tank sealer mareted by the POR 15 people. Permanent Painted coatings. Follow the instructions and you won't have any metal exposed to the inside. It is used by lots of aircraft etc to seal. I have used it on a number of cars.
    POR15 is damn expensive last time I checked (I had issues with a toldeo tank ) , ended up cutting the bottom of the tank and getting a new section fabricated .
    As long as a majority of the tank is healthy you should be able to get it repaired without huge expense .

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  8. #8
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    Icon7 I like that solution!

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwia110
    I am not sure if I totally understand the problem but, great product is Fuel Tank sealer mareted by the POR 15 people. Permanent Painted coatings. Follow the instructions and you won't have any metal exposed to the inside. It is used by lots of aircraft etc to seal. I have used it on a number of cars.
    Another solution is to take the tank out, throw in a handful of nuts and rattle it round lots. These take off the crap on the inside. Flush it out well, Hey presto, bright inside.
    Solution 3, get the largest stainlees steel sink you can find (or two), weld either a flat plate over the top, install fittings, ie pick up filler, breather and you have a bright shiny stainlees tank. If you use 2 identical ones face to face you now have double the volume. It is worth thinking about some baffles to minimise the slosh. This is commonly used for boat tanks.(if you are a cheap arse like me!)
    Option 4 go talk to a bulder of large boats, they will have a tank fabricator available to them.
    Cost, Optin2 is free,option 1 costs bugger all, 3 who knows what you paid for the sinks? 4 depends!
    I like that solution - good idea, easy to weld in stainless baffle plates in the lower half and most wire welders make stainless welding available to amateurs, nice example of thinking outside the loop. and best of all no more rust!!

    (though some stainless does lose its austenitic stainless properties when welded, but it would resist rusting better than mild steel plate)

  9. #9
    Tadpole uggliozzi's Avatar
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    Default condensation in fuel tank

    I heard (never tried it myself) that, if you are getting condensation in the fuel tank, half a litre of methylated spirits every now and again will get rid of it. Evidently metho is hygroscopic and will bond to the water allowing it to be burnt as part of the fuel instead of collecting in the bottom of the tank.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by uggliozzi
    I heard (never tried it myself) that, if you are getting condensation in the fuel tank, half a litre of methylated spirits every now and again will get rid of it. Evidently metho is hygroscopic and will bond to the water allowing it to be burnt as part of the fuel instead of collecting in the bottom of the tank.
    Good suggestion. The word though is miscible, it mixes rather seperates
    like water and oil.
    My IDF Webers once got flooded by heavy rain and I tipped some metho
    into them and low and behold the car started.
    Kerosene is also highly miscible with water but not as good a fuel in most
    petrol engines unless your into ancient trucks

    cheers,
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  11. #11
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    wow, so many suggestions.
    i tried the fill it up thing when i leave it sitting for a while, adn in answer to the question of why it works it is just less headspace in the tank and therefore less air for condensation to form in. i also added some metho, but obviously not enough.
    i think the tank is pretty buggered, so if i try to pull it apart and clean it out chances are that the wire brush will go through the steel. this is also why i have put off forking out for the por 15 gear, that and the fact that i am pretty poor at this time of year like most other mortals.
    i like the idea of the stainless steel sinks though, very ingenious. i had previously given up on stainless as it is about $4-500 a sheet.
    i was considering manufacturing one out of aluminium myself, because i too am a tight arse, hell when i fart dolphins think i am trying to communicate, and don't want to fork out for someone else to do something now that i can have done in a month or so.
    thanks for all the suggestions guys.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! G4ME's Avatar
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    I'm no chemical engineer but isn't metho just Ethanol in a take home pack?
    There is a law against doing more than 100kmh...there's no law on how fast you get to 100kmh!!!

  13. #13
    Tadpole uggliozzi's Avatar
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    Default Metho

    The best metho is Chateau a'la Bench du Parque 2005 (get it while it's still fresh). Mix it with strawberry milk for a real nice cocktail.

    Just kidding. Metho is a blend of ethanol and methanol and is not for the drinking thereof because the methanol is poisonous.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4ME
    I'm no chemical engineer but isn't metho just Ethanol in a take home pack?
    Methylated spirits is also the cheapest form of alcohol you can buy.
    Yes it is mostly ethanol, with 2-3% of the toxic alcohol methanol added.
    It still doesn't put some poor souls off from drinking 'meths'.

    Try getting your hands on pure ethanol, very difficult.

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  15. #15
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    metho is as you said mostly ethanol, but in order to avoid the enormous taxes (on the order of 50%) a few years ago it was blended with a small percentage of methanol in order to make it undrunkable.
    all alcohol is a poison, even the good stuff ethanol, but our liver can deal with reasonable amounts of it.
    chemically they are almost identical. methanol has one less carbon unit.
    i'm not sure how firmiliar you are with the lock and key theory, but its pretty straight forward, every enzyme has a specific active site that only accepts a specificly shaped and chemically arranged enzyme. it just happens that methanol fits nicely into an active site of a different chemical compound on the retina (i think? or some part of the eye), and unlike the other chemical is not designed to release once it has done its job, then hey presto, you are blind for life.
    as for the cost of the alcohols, it is actually really cheap to make the stuff yourself, be it for human consumption or automotive combustion.

  16. #16
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    Yes, luckily for us nature endowed mammals with an enzyme that breaks
    down ethanol so we can cope with this nice toxin. But we don't have a
    corresponding enzyme for methanol as its not a natural fermentation
    breakdown product like ethanol.

    Drunk elephants are a sight to behold, a few dozen kilos of fermented
    fruit and they can barely stand up.
    Its quite amazing how many animals are attracted to fermented fruit,
    like they all have a "get pissed quick" gene suddenly flicking on.

    cheers,
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  17. #17
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    Default Fuel tanks

    To get bak to the issue!!!!
    If the $30 odd is beyond reach for POR tank sealer, then making a tank is totally inconceivable!
    Why are we wasting time even considering the issue?
    However if this is a serious issue, I can assure you that sealing the tank will take away the issue of existing rust flakes causing running problems as will most of the other solutions offered! And no I do not have any links with POR, just know from experience that they do solve the problems I have used the products for.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Is there not a "modern" plastic tank that could be fitted?

    Unless I'm mistaken (again) could a Berlingo tank be persuaded to fit?

    What are the dimensions of the tank you need?



    Mike.

    O.K. I've a vested interest. I've a 203 minus a tank so obviously..............................
    Last edited by catshamlet; 28th December 2005 at 12:50 PM.

  19. #19
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    Really unless it is the same design tank from another identical car, or unless it has been professionally constructed or installed with certification. Id say any substitute tank would be frowned upon, especially by rego people and insurance companies.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Oh, thanks, that's made my day.



    Mike.

  21. #21
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    [QUOTE
    Kerosene is also highly miscible with water but not as good a fuel in most
    petrol engines unless your into ancient trucks

    cheers,[/QUOTE]

    Additives to replace the action of lead in petrol are 75-80% kerosene.

    The CAMS manual should show a list of approved fuel tank builders-they don't only make drop tanks.
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Over here, providing the "vehicle" passes the SVA, it doesn't matter where the parts originate.



    Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by biologist
    Methylated spirits is also the cheapest form of alcohol you can buy.
    Yes it is mostly ethanol, with 2-3% of the toxic alcohol methanol added.
    It still doesn't put some poor souls off from drinking 'meths'.
    cheers,
    Hollow out a loaf of bread & pour the metho through, drink what comes out the end, apparently it removes the Meth part of Metho!
    maybe there's an enzyme in bread?

  24. #24
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    i got a few spare r12 tanks if anyone is interested
    1974 Renault 12 GL

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Surely a reasonable tank is available from a $50 wreck that one of us has at home.

    I had an alloy tank made for my 4CV, but then to do it all legally it has to be certified by an engineer qualified in such. Yes my 750 has a mod plate for the tank, and the many other mods. The tank was a very reasonable $250, with me supplying the various ferrules and filler neck.
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