fuego driveshaft/box mount carnage
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Default fuego driveshaft/box mount carnage

    I've just replaced my gearbox mount as the old one was majorly bent out of shape.The left drive shaft had half popped its uni, and one of the three bearings was floating around the boot doing nothing functional.I've selected a replacement drive shaft,and will put that in, but the question thats in my mind,is what caused what.I've ruled out being a hoon as a single cause,because I'm always a hoon and haver never managed this much carnage,but its obviously a factor,as I was tramping at the time.Could movement in the old gearbox mount cause the uni to stuff up which in turn bent the mount,?There is alot of deformation of the centre bolt with a cap on it.Another thing worth mentioning is the side that shat itself is the side with a stiff almost siezed shocky.
    Any ideas guys???
    Jo

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    I've just replaced my gearbox mount as the old one was majorly bent out of shape.The left drive shaft had half popped its uni, and one of the three bearings was floating around the boot doing nothing functional.I've selected a replacement drive shaft,and will put that in, but the question thats in my mind,is what caused what.I've ruled out being a hoon as a single cause,because I'm always a hoon and haver never managed this much carnage,but its obviously a factor,as I was tramping at the time.Could movement in the old gearbox mount cause the uni to stuff up which in turn bent the mount,?There is alot of deformation of the centre bolt with a cap on it.Another thing worth mentioning is the side that shat itself is the side with a stiff almost siezed shocky.
    Any ideas guys???
    Jo
    Perhaps an F100, C1100 or Dodge Power Wagon would make a better drive car
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Default what am I missing

    I've just replaced the left drive shaft, and the gearbox mount, and everything looked good.the engine mounts are not great, but they are ok,the front mount is tight, and there doesn't seem to be any excessive movement in the drive train, but on my first test run, the bloody universal popped out and it looks like this gearbox mount might be bent too!
    So it seems I'm back where i started from,except the car is now up the street instead of in my drive.Might there be something wrong with the diff???
    This is all new to me.Any sugestions welcomed with enthusiasm at this point.
    Jo

  4. #4
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    What lower wishbones have you got on the car? Just wondering if you have the 25 wishbones still fitted, you will likely be at the absolute maximum of the inner joint travel before it pulls out of its cup. Theoretically this could also have caused the initial problem too, given the varying circumstances of travel, road conditions, suspension displacement, degree of acceleration etc etc.. Otherwise if it has the stock wishbones it could be a bent mount/ bracket causing the gearbox to be slightly located to one side.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    What lower wishbones have you got on the car? Just wondering if you have the 25 wishbones still fitted, you will likely be at the absolute maximum of the inner joint travel before it pulls out of its cup. Theoretically this could also have caused the initial problem too, given the varying circumstances of travel, road conditions, suspension displacement, degree of acceleration etc etc.. Otherwise if it has the stock wishbones it could be a bent mount/ bracket causing the gearbox to be slightly located to one side.
    Thanks for replying,Simon.I was hoping you'd get in on this.
    Yes the lower arms are of the R25,but they have been on for 2000km,without incident(except realy fast corners). it apears as if everything is fine until some force causes the box to move to drivers side.the dislocation just happened on a straight road,moderate power.If I put the old wishbones back on and it still does this, is there anything else that could cause it?
    Also, can a uni be popped back,or is it now stuffed??
    Jo

  6. #6
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    You won't be able to 'pop' it back in, it will need to have the boot opened, re-assembled / greased. I remember years back doing them on the 16 after a 'holden mechanic' had forced them out and dislocated them.

    Went through a couple of boots on the last one

    David.
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  7. #7
    Simon's Avatar
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    If they are the driveshafts I'm thinking of, they will have a little pressed metal tags that "hold" the outer shaft to the inner cup. It could have taken 2000k's for the tags to be pushed over/worn down, the slightest sideways force then popping the shaft with the longer wishbones?

    Really with the shaft having come apart under force or rotation, you would want to pull it apart to check for damage, cracked or bent spiders, burred edges, snapped off and loose metal tags, lost rollers etc.

    If it still does it with the old wishbones in, I'd then be looking for bent brackets that have been forced over in the initial incident.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Thanks for advice,guys.I just did a roadside repair, and the new old shaft is cactus.All these little roller bearings fell out so I dont think that one will be going together.I actually have(had) two types of uni. one is a cylinder, the other clover shaped.both the ones that have been stuffed today are the cylinder ones.
    I am not farmiliar with how far they would move on the spline with fuego wishbones, but as it is now, the non-pinned uni can almost be removed from the spline without taking the front end off.As usual,simon, you have probably nailed it first go..
    I put on my last driveshaft to limp home, and left the pin out.It made it home fine,in second gear.I have to go and get moms car now, but will take some pics when I get back and hope to get to the bottom of this.
    Cheers.jo

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Did I say could almost be removed,Can be removed without taking the front apart:cry.Thanks again,Simon.Bummer,I really like the feel of the car with those bigger bushes and extra camber.Ive got a stack of tyres to go through,so if there is any solution to this little problem,I'd love to hear it,as it'll be a huge letdown putting the original arms back,just when I was having so much fun.
    Cheers,Jo

  10. #10
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    Default Not familiar with the wider wishbones but..

    Jo

    when you get under the car can you move the transmission sideways with a lever- this almost sounds like the classic of the three securing bolts on the plate stripping from the Aluminium thread of the transmission allowing sufficient sideways movement while cornering or going over undulations in the roadway to destroy the joint.

    Was it the inner or outer CV joint that destroyed itself? The inner ones usually destructs because of transmission sideways movment extending the joint until it hooks on the casing (heavy crunch and lots of needle rollers spread about among other things - not even worth trying to recover the CV joint.

    The R25 wishbones probably make any sideways movement that little more critical and important to secure everything tightly.

    Unless you cure the sideways movement problem, the CV joints will continue to destroy themselves I would only use the no roll pins trick for minimal travel as spline damage could make make further repairs very expensive.

    Ken

  11. #11
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    Default Extended CV joint?

    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    Did I say could almost be removed,Can be removed without taking the front apart:cry.Thanks again,Simon.Bummer,I really like the feel of the car with those bigger bushes and extra camber.Ive got a stack of tyres to go through,so if there is any solution to this little problem,I'd love to hear it,as it'll be a huge letdown putting the original arms back,just when I was having so much fun.
    Cheers,Jo
    Jo I have seen some Fuego CV arms that have obviously been cut and welded on the main plain shaft, then a plain sleeve welded over that area of the shaft.

    In effect you could work out clearances and extended travel of the joints in service and cut the shafts and widen them to accomodate the R25 wishbones. I would suggest if you go down this track, to use a qualified welder who can if required, certify the strength of the welds and effect on the structure of the welded shafts.

    One bonus of this method is that you may be able to use half of the destroyed shaft as a viable repair as it is usually the outer joints that are stuffed in normal service so you probably have a few stuffed ones with good inners that can be used to extend the length.

    Good luck
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 12th December 2005 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Add bonus point!

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Default Defeated

    Ken, bolts are good, as I first read your advice on caution when inserting about two years ago and have had it in the back of my mind since.I think the order of things was,some force causes one of the thingies(sorry) to pop out of the universal, and then the lever action caused the mount to bend a bit to compensate.
    I will begrudgingly put the fuego lower arms on tomorrow.I hate that job as it means taking the swaybar off, and fiddling with those stupid caged nut wannabe's.
    Thanks for advice,guys.
    jo

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    fuego lower arms back on and everything is sweet again.
    jo

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