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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego
    Now have you done this before
    Nope. Just being on the safe side. If it doesn't work I still have 3 engines left.

    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego
    Why did you not tank the block before reassembly?
    I don't understand the word TANK??

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  2. #27
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    Tank = chemically clean.

    Kiwia110

    230HP = 170kW

    Would be interesting to see how many lanes you could jump over in normal suburban situations with the resultant torque steer.
    Last edited by 85Fuego; 13th December 2005 at 10:44 PM.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego
    Tank = chemically clean..
    We will still clean the outside block befor it goes back into the car. The engine only had 1600km's on it and I didn't want to remove the crank.

    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego
    Would be interesting to see how many lanes you could jump over in normal suburban situations with the resultant torque steer.
    The Fuego has never had a problem with torque steer. The equal lenght drive shaft help huge.
    1984 Renault Fuego 2.2L Turbo

  4. #29
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Wow....230hp in Fuego
    I previously had a S**b 9000t and they only have about 185hp and they are a 1300kg car and it went well. What weight is a Fuego?

    Ryan, welcome to Aussiefrogs. Very nice looking ride.
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  5. #30
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rage_rman
    We will still clean the outside block befor it goes back into the car. The engine only had 1600km's on it and I didn't want to remove the crank.


    The Fuego has never had a problem with torque steer. The equal lenght drive shaft help huge.
    cant say that i agree with that comment.Mine have always managed to suprise me now and then.
    jo

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    Wow....230hp in Fuego
    I previously had a S**b 9000t and they only have about 185hp and they are a 1300kg car and it went well. What weight is a Fuego?

    Ryan, welcome to Aussiefrogs. Very nice looking ride.

    Fuegos weigh about the same, I know a guy in the US has managed to get his down to just over 900kg replacing glass with plastic, etc... recons it does a 14sec 1/4 mile.

    David.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    cant say that i agree with that comment.Mine have always managed to suprise me now and then.
    jo
    I Don't get it. I've owned 6 Fuego's now and none have ever had tourqe steer.
    1984 Renault Fuego 2.2L Turbo

  8. #33
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    Ryan

    What I'm concerned about is putting 230 Hp through the front wheels of a FWD car designed in the 70's.

    The same 230 Hp through a redesigned speedway midget would not have the same effect. Don't get me wrong it would be fun but not with full bore take-offs, and certainly not when there is plenty of traffic around.

  9. #34
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    hey man i thought id blab a bit. im fron van isle originally and relocated to adelaide australia. did i mention how great this country is? unfortunatly due to opportunities i may have to move to edmonton where part of my family is. is there not a 2.2 turbo peugot engine available in canada? if so id say a wreckers would sell em cheap. fuegos are rare in canada but i saw one seel in bc cheaply and was in great nick. they are such a find over there, although for a bit more i can suggest a certain forgotten jap car thats quite amazing.....am i being blasphemous?

  10. #35
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    See your under the assumption that I will be driving this car a lot. I won't. They are so rare I wouldn't risk all the work I had done. Maybe take it out for a drive 3-4 times a summer. As for the 2.2 turbo Peugeot I've never seen any. They are even rarer than Renaults. I still see some GTA's and some R21's but the last time I saw another fuego was about 2 years ago. and If I did see another one I would bye it right away.
    1984 Renault Fuego 2.2L Turbo

  11. #36
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    Default Expected pricing in Canada?

    Quote Originally Posted by rage_rman
    See your under the assumption that I will be driving this car a lot. I won't. They are so rare I wouldn't risk all the work I had done. Maybe take it out for a drive 3-4 times a summer. As for the 2.2 turbo Peugeot I've never seen any. They are even rarer than Renaults. I still see some GTA's and some R21's but the last time I saw another fuego was about 2 years ago. and If I did see another one I would bye it right away.
    rage_rman

    Any idea of current pricing of the Fuego in Canada or price range your car might achieve when completed and back on the road.

    I know that is not so important,but interesting to us, as we still have access to low priced fuegos in almost abundance in Australia.

    Ken

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    Wow....230hp in Fuego
    I previously had a S**b 9000t and they only have about 185hp and they are a 1300kg car and it went well. What weight is a Fuego?
    A Fuego weighs roughly 1050kg...


    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego
    What I'm concerned about is putting 230 Hp through the front wheels of a FWD car designed in the 70's.

    The same 230 Hp through a redesigned speedway midget would not have the same effect. Don't get me wrong it would be fun but not with full bore take-offs, and certainly not when there is plenty of traffic around.
    What difference would it make if it was designed in the 70's 0r the 00's?

    It has equal length driveshafts and well sorted suspension. If the Fuego ever has an issue with torque steer, it's usually because the caster bar bushes are completely shagged...

    I've never found torque steer to be an issue during hard take off's at motorkhanas etc.. (admittedly with a lot less power) and the only issue I could see would perhaps be with the gearbox...

    Can't wait to see the engine fitted. Should be a rocket..

  13. #38
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    cant say that i agree with that comment.Mine have always managed to suprise me now and then.
    jo
    yeah Jo ...I have to ask....what torque steer? none of my fuegos have had the slightest hint of it
    now a little RSC on the other hand..now that's torque steer!!! (especially if you take off like you would in the fuego! ) hehehe

    hmmm...could it be possible that I don't push my car hard enough??? ..mind you, that much power might make it more noticable if it exists .......sigh...I want more power
    Aus

    P.S. Rage man....welcome! you should come holiday in Melbourne...we have lots of fuegos still on the road as daily drivers, although they're getting rarer each year.
    Aus
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  14. #39
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    What difference would it make if it was designed in the 70's 0r the 00's?

    I agree the torque steer is minimised by the vehicle having equal length driveshafts, and a double A arm suspension, however, just about any piece of crap nowadays has a better sorted chassis, they don't have a massive lump out front of the driving wheels, they have all sorts of anti dive technology etc etc etc

    Manufacturers hesitate about releasing a car with 230+HP running through the front wheels, why do you think SAAB dropped the Viggen (230Hp/350Nm)?, why do you think high Hp cars are now either RWD of 4WD? The wheels that do the steering can only do it well for so long, with power being fed through them before the slip angle gets too great.

    Why are we worrying about castor angles of the front wheels, the best shocks for a car, tyres (the 195/55/15 thread had over 400 entries and accessed nearly 23,000 times!)?

    As people have said the Fuego is the ultimate development of the Reggie taxi (ie the 12)!

    We can (and I do) enjoy the car but its not as if it had handling like a Ferrari 308! (or the pedigree).

    Let the rebuttal begin!

    David

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Australdi
    yeah Jo ...I have to ask....what torque steer? none of my fuegos have had the slightest hint of it
    now a little RSC on the other hand..now that's torque steer!!! (especially if you take off like you would in the fuego! ) hehehe

    hmmm...could it be possible that I don't push my car hard enough??? ..mind you, that much power might make it more noticable if it exists .......sigh...I want more power
    Aus

    P.S. Rage man....welcome! you should come holiday in Melbourne...we have lots of fuegos still on the road as daily drivers, although they're getting rarer each year.
    Re torque steer,if I'm thinking of the same effect,and its as likely that im confused, a few times in mirror finish car parks, on realy hard first gear launches,the ones that sound like Starsky and Hutch,the car has nearly lanched me into the cars next to me, and on some of sydneys furrowed roads when I'm loosing traction on acceleration the same can happen.Di,it could be that you are not pushing your car hard enough.Remember I'm up for nominations in the fuego hoon award
    Jo
    Jo

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    Re torque steer,if I'm thinking of the same effect,and its as likely that im confused, a few times in mirror finish car parks, on realy hard first gear launches,the ones that sound like Starsky and Hutch,the car has nearly lanched me into the cars next to me, and on some of sydneys furrowed roads when I'm loosing traction on acceleration the same can happen.Di,it could be that you are not pushing your car hard enough.Remember I'm up for nominations in the fuego hoon award
    Jo
    Jo
    I think the mirror finish car parks is loss of traction and why why would you do a "first gear launch" in a car park?
    The "furrowed road" effect is called tram lining and is also noticeable in the country where they have widened roads. Particularly noticeable in trucks etc with more rigid tyre walls.
    I think you have won award already
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    I think the mirror finish car parks is loss of traction and why why would you do a "first gear launch" in a car park?
    The "furrowed road" effect is called tram lining and is also noticeable in the country where they have widened roads. Particularly noticeable in trucks etc with more rigid tyre walls.
    I think you have won award already
    You just dont understand me in any way shape or form ,Westair,or you are fishiing for a bite.If you realy want to know the reason I love launching in carparks ,its the sound,and the G's.The scream of the motor coming at you from all six sides gives me the jollies.You must understand that I have a different mentality than most people on this forum who will probably treat their cars nicely all the time, and aim to have it last forever.I dont.My current incarnation is fuego no6.

    Jo

  18. #43
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    Jo, whack a video camera in your car one day, and record a normal days driving in the Fuego, the footage would be entertaining!
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  19. #44
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Europa, be carefull what you wish for
    My normal driving is quite normal.Its the silly stuff that would get a laugh.I'm actually in the planning stages of wiring up the car with hi tech gadgets.I'm looking at having a note book,with permanent vid stream from drivers perspective, and the option of a clip on disposable vid camera.I am busting to see what my suspension looks like when I'm pushing hard, and to be able to see the tyre deformation on hard corners.Also to see how much body flex,and engine mount deformation the car is being subjected too.Stay tuned for Fuego cam.
    Jo

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    You just dont understand me in any way shape or form ,Westair,or you are fishiing for a bite.If you realy want to know the reason I love launching in carparks ,its the sound,and the G's.The scream of the motor coming at you from all six sides gives me the jollies.You must understand that I have a different mentality than most people on this forum who will probably treat their cars nicely all the time, and aim to have it last forever.I dont.My current incarnation is fuego no6.

    Jo

    YES!!!!!
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    1972 Mercedes Benz 280E
    1988 Nissan Trakka Campervan
    1972 VW Kombi

    In business, words are words; explanations are explanations, promises are promises, but only performance is reality.
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  21. #46
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    Forgot- what or who is "Gs"?
    1986 Renault Fuego GTX
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    In business, words are words; explanations are explanations, promises are promises, but only performance is reality.
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  22. #47
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    My Fuego's I've baught and prices.

    #1) $100 CND
    #2) $1000 CND
    #3) $150 CND
    #4) $100 CND
    #5) $300 CND

    They don't cost much if you can find one.

    Now as for FWD cars with over 200HP we have a tone in Canada
    Two 4Cyl engins would be:
    1) Dodge Neon SRT4 235 HP Stock - 2.4L Turbo I4
    2) Chevy Colbalt SS 220 HP Stock - 2.2L Supercharged I4

    Plus the tone of V6 FWD drive cars that a in the mid 200's

    My Nissan Sentra Came with 175hp Stock on a 2.5L Engine. And generates massive amount of tourqe steer. It has a LSD which doesn't help much. Below is a pic of my Sentra


    Last edited by rage_rman; 17th December 2005 at 07:35 PM.
    1984 Renault Fuego 2.2L Turbo

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego
    What difference would it make if it was designed in the 70's 0r the 00's?

    I agree the torque steer is minimised by the vehicle having equal length driveshafts, and a double A arm suspension, however, just about any piece of crap nowadays has a better sorted chassis, they don't have a massive lump out front of the driving wheels, they have all sorts of anti dive technology etc etc etc

    Manufacturers hesitate about releasing a car with 230+HP running through the front wheels, why do you think SAAB dropped the Viggen (230Hp/350Nm)?, why do you think high Hp cars are now either RWD of 4WD? The wheels that do the steering can only do it well for so long, with power being fed through them before the slip angle gets too great.

    Why are we worrying about castor angles of the front wheels, the best shocks for a car, tyres (the 195/55/15 thread had over 400 entries and accessed nearly 23,000 times!)?

    As people have said the Fuego is the ultimate development of the Reggie taxi (ie the 12)!

    We can (and I do) enjoy the car but its not as if it had handling like a Ferrari 308! (or the pedigree).

    Let the rebuttal begin!

    David
    Where do I begin

    The Fuego shares NOTHING with the Renault 12 suspension layout apart from the fact that it is a double wishbone front end with a spring/damper assy attached to the top arm...

    It's a bit like comparing a VN Commodore with an M3 because they both have strut type front suspension...

    The Fuego front suspension has anti-dive and negative scrub geometery incorporated into it's basic design whilst the rear suspension features passive rear steer.

    I'd love to know what is wrong with your car if you think 'any piece of crap' is 'better sorted'. The suspension NVH levels may be back in the 80's but I can assure you the handling and geometry most certainly isn't...

    As for a masive lump hanging over the front wheels? I assume you mean that this promotes understeer or some other terrible trait?

    I think you need to have a think about the layout a little more...

    Whilst it may have the engine infront of the axle line, it also has a rather heavy gearbox completely behind the axle line.

    Most East-West engine configurations have the ENTIRE Engine and Gearbox infront of the axle line (after all, the driveshafts run behind the engine). An East-West configuration may not look so front heavy under the bonnet, but the scales beg to differ. The main problem with the North-South transaxle with the inherent packaging disadvatages...

    As for handling... a Fuego will understeer if you still have the rock hard TRX's fitted (which they were never fitted with in Europe BTW) and with nothing but a decent set of tyres (and well maintained suapension) you are much more likely to back it into the scenery (at rather high speeds) than you are to understeer of the road (unless you have no regard for some of the rules written by a bloke called Newton of course).

    As with any car, alot depends on how they have been maintained. I have driven some Fuego's which feel terrible, yet I have driven others which feel like Go-Karts. A good Fuego will keep up with virtually any car through the twisties...it's the bits in between that hurt...

    BTW - Have you ever driven a Ferrari 308?

    They're not all they're cracked up to be...

  24. #49
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    I have to weigh into this thread...have been watching it for a few days now.
    Whilst not being a Fuego expert, I will say I was surprised when I had the chance to drive this car
    One Owner Fuego Faultless

    As I said in the post, it is an original car and even though I didn't push it to it's limits for obvious reasons I would have to say that for a mid-80's car the Fuego would have been very well sorted and close to the top of it's pile in it's day....4 cyl 2L coupes. Back in the 80's I would have been proud to own a Fuego havng driven several coupes in that class, Lancer, Toyota T18 , Subaru and a 79 Celica. All of them were questionable even at that stage and the T18 should never have been allowed to drink even a drop of precious petrol. Although t the time I was comparing them all to my modestly modded R17TL so it was a little unfair
    Even after all these years the Fuego I drove was a sure footed car and still on the TRX tyres, although not the originals but a new set fitted less than a month before I drove the car. I am sure a Fuego kept in good order would still be a fun car to drive today and I don't think that poor ride would afflict them unless they had been neglected
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  25. #50
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    Ah I knew id get into an agument here,

    Passive steer really means bushes with ovoid holes so they can deform to follow the cars line as it is going at the time, but you can only counteract the effects of what is basically a 3 link/beam axle rear end for so long.
    The beam axle helps to keep maximum tyre patch on the road as it keeps the tyre/wheel perpendicular to the road, however, if a bump is hit by the right rear wheel for example the whole beam axle is forced left moving the car in that direction instead of absorbing the force of the blow vertically.

    Reason for understeer: mass of car going along in a line as dictated by the laws Mr Newton observed and the tyres trying in vain to point them in another direction. Why: mass x distance from front axle line. Although the packaging may be cramped in an east-west configuration what they're trying to do is keep the centre of mass closer to the axle line, sometimes they even do silly things like cant the engine rearwards to shift the point of max mass. This east-west/north-south configuration thing though is really done by the manufacturers to achieve one thing - mount the whole engine/gearbox assembly on a sub frame to speed up assembly and to isolate NVH.

    Backing the whole thing into the shrubbery means that the car has lift off oversteer, a trait that is linked to mass distribution.

    I agree with you "As with any car, alot depends on how they have been maintained. I have driven some Fuego's which feel terrible, yet I have driven others which feel like Go-Karts. A good Fuego will keep up with virtually any car through the twisties...it's the bits in between that hurt..."

    Don't get me wrong here I like the car, its stylish (in an 80's way), thats the reason why I own one, but I feel that its mass distribution doesn't do it any favours. Silk purse from a sows ear comes to mind.

    And, no, I haven't driven a 308 but i'd hazard a guess they might handle a wee bit better that the Fuego.

    Lets not get heated/personal we can pick holes in each others arguments all day - my own opinion is that let's not place the car upon a pedestal.

    I'd like to meet you and see your car one day, maybe at the next all french car day.

    Regards

    David

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