R25 Oil in the dizzy
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  1. #1
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Default R25 Oil in the dizzy

    Hey guys,

    Worked out part of the problem to the 25, and not so much that oil is running into the distributor, but moreso the oil that is blowing out around the rocker cover bolt closest to the firewall.

    Doesn't 'seem' to be leaking oil anywhere else.. I am presuming it could be a PCV valve, or a blown head gasket?

    What other places in the R25 motor should I be looking for oil?

    I will be running some cheap oil through the motor and doing an oil change / clean the motor on the weekend. Will also replace the gearbox juice and spark plugs.

    Other immediate things I have shortlisted as next to do:- (not the time this weekend)

    - Timing belt
    - Injection jets?
    - Timing.

    Ill take some photos, but there seem to be a few loose wires under there too.
    Don't have a manual so I am going a bit blind, what sort of things should I be thinking about that I may have forgotten?

    I have until early Dec until the car is out of rego, and another 3 months to get it on the road, to avoid a full pit inspection.. although the car it pretty good.

    Any advice apreciated.. thanks,

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    David.
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  2. #2
    Tadpole
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    Default same prob in fuego

    i have an 85 fuego gtx and i also have oil getting in the distributer i think there is an oil seal at the back.... not sure with the 25, but replacing the oil seal should do the trick.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    My 1st fuego had oil leaks at the rear.Fully fixed with a new dizzi,and a new rocker cover gasket.I totally cleaned out the gutter,and head with a stainless scourer,then beaded the gutter and smeared head mateing face with High temp silicon.Fixed it 100%.I clean and silicon the rocker cover bolts upon instalation.
    Jo

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    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    I will be running some cheap oil through the motor and doing an oil change / clean the motor on the weekend. Will also replace the gearbox juice and spark plugs.
    Quote/



    If you mean to just run oil through motor without starting it will be better to use diesel fuel. Drain oil- replace sump plug and put 2-3 litre of diesel in.
    Drain after and hour and then run a litre os so of "GOOD" oil through.

    Some people use kero but it has a higher water content than diesel.
    1986 Renault Fuego GTX
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  5. #5
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    I will be running some cheap oil through the motor and doing an oil change / clean the motor on the weekend. Will also replace the gearbox juice and spark plugs.
    Quote/



    If you mean to just run oil through motor without starting it will be better to use diesel fuel. Drain oil- replace sump plug and put 2-3 litre of diesel in.
    Drain after and hour and then run a litre os so of "GOOD" oil through.

    Some people use kero but it has a higher water content than diesel.
    My plan was to get some cheapy oil and run the engine... then maybe a week later drain and put some new oil in.

    It was suggested that I could use some detergent based product designed to wash out the motor, but I think I'll steer clear.

    I was then thinking of running a tank of ethanol blend, suggested by another AF'er to remove any water content in the fuel... then put new fuel filters on.

    So, re the oil leak in the TOP of the rocker cover (cant see any leaks coming from the gasket, tho they may appear if I seal the rocker cover) should I worry about the state of the motor?

    David.
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Rocker cover - easy peasy swap for a new gasket. Around $10 from Ken. Also, the 3 bolts have fiber washers under them that often leak. I have only seen these supplied in a VRS gasket kit, but they seem to be similar material to exhaust gaskets - get a bit from Repco and cut some out.

    Dizzy oil leak - very common. Ken had some oil seals for the dizzy shaft a while back that did the trick for a couple of bux. Otherwise a new dizzy is in order (or scour pickaparts for a non leaking Fuego one - you may get lucky..)

    Cheap oil flush not a bad idea. Cant hurt...

    Timing belt - if in doubt, change it. Check the tensioner roller bearing, and change crank, camshaft anf aux shaft seals while youre in there. Also put a new AC belt in.

    Timing - no adjustment possible.

    Injectors - usually dont give trouble. I would give it a dose of injector cleaner before pulling them out. If they are still crook, I think most EFI places will charge you about $100 if you pull them out and give them to them.
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid
    My plan was to get some cheapy oil and run the engine... then maybe a week later drain and put some new oil in.

    It was suggested that I could use some detergent based product designed to wash out the motor, but I think I'll steer clear.

    I was then thinking of running a tank of ethanol blend, suggested by another AF'er to remove any water content in the fuel... then put new fuel filters on.

    So, re the oil leak in the TOP of the rocker cover (cant see any leaks coming from the gasket, tho they may appear if I seal the rocker cover) should I worry about the state of the motor?

    David.
    You could do both-drain old oil and then diesel and then refill with cheaper oil and drain again after the week and put in the good stuff.
    The other advice on oil leak seems pretty good.
    Have you done compression test?
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  8. #8
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Nope I haven't done a compression test, I forgot to mention that on my list!

    I am a bit reluctant to use diesel, but I'll definitely start with cheapo oil flush after running for a week and see how clear I can get the oil running... Then I may give it a go if there is still gunk.

    I also realised I have to add a LEFT driveshaft the list, cv is rattly.

    Thanks for the tips guys, atm the motor is lacking that much power I couldnt even spin the wheels, and I tried! The 16 seems high powered after the 25 atm.

    David.
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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! MARK BIRD's Avatar
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    I would not put kero thru a motor and any oil flush should be done with extreme caution as any loose "Barbecue plate type deposits" will or may block the strainer on the oil pump and bingo no oil pressure or oil to the engine. The other spot where they leak oil is from the back right hand side of head gasket and this family of motors in either a Renault or Pug will do it one day, The only way to fix it is replace the head gasket. Only leaks oil not water as a oil feed hole is located near the edge here. I have been witness to a Oil flush that cleaned the engine up so well that it did block the strainer and seized the cam ect in the top end up and stripped the cam belt despite my advise not to do it. He was even watching for a oil pressure light. It came on but too late damage done in a few seconds.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Advice on dislodging gunk is wise. Just do several oil/filter changes in quick succesion - every couple of thousand Ks will suffice. Anything that doesnt clear out will not be a problem anyway.

    Dont expect an R25 to spin wheels too easily on dry bitumen - they are not that powerful. But a high rev clutch dump should make some tyre noise.

    First thing to check is the mixture - pull a plug and see how it looks. It will quickly tell you if its rich or lean. Unfortunatly, you have the early leaded type car, so the EFI system is rather complicated... Start with a good service (plugs, maybe leads, clean cap and rotor, air filter, fuel filter etc). I think the mixture is adjustable on these setups - something about a screw on the MAP sensor or something seems to jog my memory - hopefully someone with experience in early R25s can help here. I know the idle speed has a manual adjustement.

    I am used to the ULP setup - no adjustments can be made and its all up to the computer.

    I think outer CV joints are common with the Fuego - so you may have a spare already. That is if you have the 6 ball type CV. My auto has these, but the manual I got for spares had the 3 prong spicer type. But that was an NG3 car - the shafts I got with a UN1 box I got a while back were the same as my auto, so you may be in luck there.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  11. #11
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Haakon, your gold 25 is my cars twin, be it younger sister.

    I changed No1 spark plug lastnight, and no missing, running on 4 again.. YAY!

    Managed to dump the clutch and spin the wheels for the first time in that car.

    I have put some cheapo oil in it, and will be flushing on the weekend, and the same for the fuel tank with some ethanol rich fuel.

    Engine has had a clean, and there is much less oil escaping than expected, which is good.

    Thanks so far guys,

    David.
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    eh? Its silver - maybe your screen settings need looking at

    Glad its all coming together. Never ceases to amaze me how some people leave plugs in for so long. They are so cheap
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  13. #13
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Thanks Haakon,

    It has taken me this long to find the right NGK's which I ended up getting from David C.

    The old park plug was black, and covered in oil... tho the car doesnt blow smoke. Now I have the other 3 spark plugs to replace too.

    Hehe, yea ok.. now I look at it its silver.

    What colour interiour does it have? grey?

    David.
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Plugs you should be able to get anywhere - they are the same as V6 Commodores I use french made Valeo plugs from EAI for about 3 bux each.

    If the plug has failed, then it will be very black and icky. Pull the plugs again after a bit of driving and check the colour again.

    Mine has a very retro 80s blue interior You should pop around one day with the R25, and I can give the speil on what can and does go wrong with them, and how to avoid the typical R25 "issues"
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  15. #15
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Thanks Haakon,

    Probably not until after Christmas, but I have been meaning to meet up with you for a chat for a while now.

    Happy with the 25, will be a nice easy car for my partner to drive the kids in once I have its problems sorted.

    REG runs out in 4 days now.
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    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    Dizzy oil leak - very common. Ken had some oil seals for the dizzy shaft a while back that did the trick for a couple of bux. Otherwise a new dizzy is in order (or scour pickaparts for a non leaking Fuego one - you may get lucky..)
    Are the dizzys out of a Fuego the same as in 25s? I have the same dizzy oil problem in my 25, so I actually got the seals from Ken but haven't got around to putting them in yet. He said that they should fix the problem but if the dizzy shaft wasn't smooth then the new seal wouldn't help, understandably. If this is the case with mine, then it's good to now I can rebuild a Fuego dizzy if mine was stuffed.

    Now I've just got to pull my finger out and start fixing things... (I have repainted the roof though - now it looks shmicko! )

    Cheers,
    Richard
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  17. #17
    bob
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    Dizzy seals. My r20 [1982] leaks oil into the inside of the dizzy from the shaft seal BUT it is [in the typical French manner] NON-standard. I just forget now the actual size but the bearing service people carry the same internal/external diameter but it is 1mm thicker than the original. Just enough to cause problems. The dealer supplied article at the time was the standard Aussie one, ie: too thick. ? too fat doesn't sound any better !!
    New dizzys don't seem to be available unless you can find a dealer with old stock. I found a near-new one but yet to find time to fit it.
    Cheers,
    Bob

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    New Fuego/R25 dizzys freely available at your friendly froggy parts place. Carrevelle I know has them, as does EAI I think. Something in the region of 80 bux I think
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    New Fuego/R25 dizzys freely available at your friendly froggy parts place. Carrevelle I know has them, as does EAI I think. Something in the region of 80 bux I think

    The last one I got from Ken this year was $90 + GST so $99. Almost worth buying a new dizzy when you add the cost of cap + rotor + inner & outer seals + the likelihood of a worn shaft bush which would result in a short leakless life for the inner seal + stuffing about getting the little roll pin out to dismantle it.

    Renpete

  20. #20
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Thanks GUYS!

    Just an update, as I forgot to post to the thread.

    Shane, you were spot on. Cyl 1 spark plug, replaced that and the thing can pull its own weight without revving the guts out of it.

    Thankyou for the R25 bits David. (Fuego85)
    Not sure if I will just replace a door and paint, or attempt to replace the winder in that door.

    David also thankyou for your advice, looks like the engine leaks (besides the dizzy) are all at the front, pulley seals etc.

    So Ill be replacing the timing belt, tensioner etc some time this month.. time to call Ken.

    David.

    Haven't checked the Fuego driveshafts yet, think I may have cut them off the wreck rather than removed them properly
    Last edited by vivid; 7th December 2005 at 07:41 PM.
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  21. #21
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    Default dissy seal

    Gents

    The seal that I replaced in both the 25 and Fuego distributors is:

    Outside diameter = 16mm
    Inside diameter = 10mm
    Thickness = 4mm

    Fits straight in - NO NEED FOR MODIFICATIONS.

    At the time I could only get a single lipped seal, I would recommend you get a double lip seal.

    David

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