Fuegos. Fixes and Modifications? - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Default Fuego suspension settings

    Richard

    Can I ask you some questions regarding your setup on the Fuego - obviously you've done some work and would have some insight to the questions I'm about to ask (if I may?)-

    Every one says get the 25 lower wishbones - this will adjust the camber angle - and the effect of this is? Are there no special modifications needed to be done to fit them to a bog standard Fuego? Would not lowering the front end by reducing the screw-in depth of the lower shock thread be enough to reduce the camber angle?

    My understanding of toe-in and toe-out is this: rear wheel drive cars have a toe-in set up to reduce tramlining. Front drive cars have a toe-out setup as when power is fed through the wheels the torque action toes-in the wheels and the net effect is either zero or a small toe-in. Do you not have feathering on the tyres as a result of standard toe-in?

    I assume you have non power steering on your Fuego. What is the difference in the castor angles between non and power stering models and what was the effect of you running the power steering angle setup on a non-power steering car?

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    As a point of interest - have you altered the rack height settings or do you know the effect of altering the rack height settings?

    Thanks in advance

    David

  2. #27
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    Default We all start somewhere!

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoN
    Rats.....sounded too good to be true. But then he did spend $800 on the engine head, plus seeing as he made his exhaust stuff him self i would assume he is a hell of a lot better at working on cars than i am so the tinkering part would be easier for him. Oh well i'll just fix the car up and do some cosmetics. I ll see what happens in the future as to wheather i have money to do a mod like this later on.

    Thanks to everyone that replied to the thread. lots of very very helpfull info
    Apart from people like Mistarenno who has a background in motor mechanicary most of us learn by tinkering with motor cars, asking questions and working with mates on their cars, so I encourange you to have a go - but remember to post back here when you learn a good tip or source - everything helps, even if only to get an in depth discussion going.

    It never ceases to amaze me on what can be done with the Fuego to improve performance, efficiency, driveability and on road enjoyment.

    Of course part of this phenomenon is bought about by the cheap entry price of the car, availability of parts and owned by drivers who don't mind getting their hands dirty on D.I.Y. repairs/tinkering.

    Next phase is also beginning, with restoration to original pristine condition and show and shine customizing in parrallel with track and field modding. Good examples in unrestored condition will soon be soaked up in the process.

    Vivid if you have got the storage area, you may well be laughing in the future!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    Vivid if you have got the storage area, you may well be laughing in the future!
    I dunno, people just laugh at my old Renaults ;-)
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    Vivid if you have got the storage area, you may well be laughing in the future!
    I hate to say it, but I seriously doubt that the Fuego will attain valuable collectible status in the future. Parallel it with the Renault 15/17, probably with more sporting character, and certainly more competition cred than the Fuego, and yet they are still in the bargain basement in terms of value as far as older character type cars go.

    My suggestion is to enjoy a Fuego for what it is, but certainly keep in mind when spending on hard core mods that cost does not always equal value. And if the car is being modified more for individuality than purpose, there is little return for that cost. Things like secondhand RS Clio’s are getting cheaper as time goes on, especially in the current low inflation environment. :-)

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego
    Richard

    Can I ask you some questions regarding your setup on the Fuego - obviously you've done some work and would have some insight to the questions I'm about to ask (if I may?)-

    Every one says get the 25 lower wishbones - this will adjust the camber angle - and the effect of this is? Are there no special modifications needed to be done to fit them to a bog standard Fuego? Would not lowering the front end by reducing the screw-in depth of the lower shock thread be enough to reduce the camber angle?

    My understanding of toe-in and toe-out is this: rear wheel drive cars have a toe-in set up to reduce tramlining. Front drive cars have a toe-out setup as when power is fed through the wheels the torque action toes-in the wheels and the net effect is either zero or a small toe-in. Do you not have feathering on the tyres as a result of standard toe-in?

    I assume you have non power steering on your Fuego. What is the difference in the castor angles between non and power stering models and what was the effect of you running the power steering angle setup on a non-power steering car?

    As a point of interest - have you altered the rack height settings or do you know the effect of altering the rack height settings?

    Thanks in advance

    David
    To fit 25 lower wishbones you need to enlarge the mounting holes as the bolt and bush hole are bigger.

    You could possibly have a sleeve made up and maintain the Fuego bolt but it is an extra component and alot of effort for little gain on the road...

    I also don't personally like modifying something unless it can be returned to the way it was hence I don't intend fitting R25 lower arms...

    The idea of negative camber is to maximise the tyres contact patch by compensating for body roll and tyre deformation...R25 lower arms are close to 10mm longer and without modification and would add atleast a degree or two of negative camber and would really only be suitable for the track (unless you have money to burn on rubber)

    With toe set at zero I get very even tyre wear, far better than many other vehicles I've seen running similar rubber. If one edge does go slightly before the other, it would admittedly be the inner edge, but I am also running a bit of negative camber which probably play a bigger role...

    If I drive the car hard, the tyres wear perfectly all round...

    My car is a Power steering model and they run significantly more castor than the manual steer models...running more castor with a manual steer Fuego would make the steering stupidly heavy...

    Camber changes very little when lowered slightly (it runs equal length double wishbones after all) and I believe the rack height is set in relation to the top wishbone pivot which does not change...

    I hope I answered all points, but feel free to ask any further questions..

  6. #31
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    Fitting R25 arms gives around 3 degrees negative camber which for road use only, most people would consider extreme. I did run 2.5 degrees on my R15 for many years with no adverse wear. I run 5 degrees on my BMW, and it just looks like it is broken, but it does go around corners.
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  7. #32
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    Default Ample overseas examples

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    I hate to say it, but I seriously doubt that the Fuego will attain valuable collectible status in the future. Parallel it with the Renault 15/17, probably with more sporting character, and certainly more competition cred than the Fuego, and yet they are still in the bargain basement in terms of value as far as older character type cars go.

    My suggestion is to enjoy a Fuego for what it is, but certainly keep in mind when spending on hard core mods that cost does not always equal value. And if the car is being modified more for individuality than purpose, there is little return for that cost. Things like secondhand RS Clio’s are getting cheaper as time goes on, especially in the current low inflation environment. :-)
    Totally disagree with you Simon - when you have a look at what is happenning in the US and South America (Argentina) and also on the continent the Fuego is being tricked up in all sorts of ways, it is an attractive vehicle in its own right - looks good on the road today, certainly not out of place with other vehicles (not a look at that funny old car reaction) and is quite capable of modification.

    I know of at least one car in Melbourne that has been stripped to a shell and everything re-done, owner plans a full width & length sunroof and top quality finish to suit, and several others under restoration with emphasis on total originality. Then there are the track style cars in planning and the everyday use cars like my family has.

    I am very comfortable with what I see happenning with the Fuego and i don't do things just for resale value, I do them because I genuinely enjoy the cars.

    What I don't like is the old fashioned and now out of date reverse snobbisness of certain groups who wrote the Fuego off (and the alpines) as virtually non renaults because of their distinctive design and presence on the road- pretty cars for would be pretty drivers (hairdressers ?) who wouldn't or couldn't get their hands dirty, I think that is as near to what I was told

    I think that I have proven that theory wrong, I have neither the hair, looks or clean hands to qualify!

    The majority of owners here have an infinite love of their cars and the enjoyment of driving them. The only disadvantage for a young fellow in owning one is that when he marries and starts a family, needs change, but for those that have been lucky to purchase them at current low prices, they can store them without any loss until such time as they are ready to lavish time and a little bit of money to re-live that enjoyment

    How many times have I heard the comment, I really loved driving my Fuego I wish I had never sold it! or If I knew what I know now I would never have got rid of it - well there is still the opportunity, while you still can.

    Never say I wish I had - just do it! Meanwhile I will help every owner I can who is trying to keep these beautiful cars on the road where they should be.

    Time you got out and drove one for enjoyment Relax the world wont end, just change a bit!!

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    What I don't like is the old fashioned and now out of date reverse snobbisness of certain groups who wrote the Fuego off (and the alpines) as virtually non renaults because of their distinctive design and presence on the road-
    Kenfeugo,

    I don't know many renault owners who would denounce an alpine as being a proper renault! If anything It's probably the other way around with pre-renault alpine owners not happy having there limited production sports cars associated with everday renaults!

    Most renault owners would love an alpine in the garage but probably a lot less would want a feugo!

    At least your taking advantage of having a car that u obviously enjoy that is worth nothing to a lot of people. Hopefully 17's stay that way until i can get a TS/G!

    Jensen
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  9. #34
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    Yeah, I gotta admit Ken, I don't know of many Renault enthusiasts that 'write Alpines off' I think they are probably the most desirable and collectable of all the Renaults...

    The thing that I think the Fuego has going for it is it's styling.

    I don't want to offend, but the 17 (and to a lesser extent the 15) just look old and rather wierd. A good Fuego looks clean and fresh and has a good mix of curves and lines that have helped it age well in the curvy/angular ping pong that styling trends go through...

    It is also reasonably durable and reliable and the chassis is much stronger than the 15/17.

    Will a Fuego ever become collectable? I don't know and I don't really care, I just enjoy scaring the pants off cars worth 10 times as much through corners

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jensen
    Kenfeugo,

    I don't know many renault owners who would denounce an alpine as being a proper renault! If anything It's probably the other way around with pre-renault alpine owners not happy having there limited production sports cars associated with everday renaults!

    Most renault owners would love an alpine in the garage but probably a lot less would want a feugo!

    At least your taking advantage of having a car that u obviously enjoy that is worth nothing to a lot of people. Hopefully 17's stay that way until i can get a TS/G!

    Jensen
    Look When I first came accross Renaults,there had to be something going for them as the styling was boxy and in some cases only a mother could love them - when you join a club, you look a bit further into the marque and you can see why the owners love them - they are a driving, rallying cars that really give of their best and the owners love them.

    As part of the explanation why the Alpine and the Fuego were regarded as "those cars" the fact noted, that those owners didn't mix with the other Renno herd, so a kind of reverse snobbery if you like developed and, I agree that I and any other Renault owner would love an Alpine, the difference with the Alpine of course is that it was a rally proven car, the Fuego never got into that class.

    No I am not trying to write off the Alpine or write down the Alpine. I just found it curious that there is a definite coming together and appreciation in our present clubs (healthy and good).

    Nopw can I come out from under this umbrella
    I put that down to marketing and the sports writers of the day and that "Oh youve got one of them attitude!!

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    Totally disagree with you Simon
    On which point? I made several.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    - when you have a look at what is happenning in the US and South America (Argentina) and also on the continent the Fuego is being tricked up in all sorts of ways
    If small time competition in odd countries adds value, then the humble 12 TL and GL should be worth a fortune based on the Newstart racing series in Australia. Heck, even Brocky raced a 12 and won! So that must add heaps to the value and cred of 12's. :-)

    Seriously, the 17G won a round of the WRC, and was run in parallel with the Alpines in competition. It has even had a number of historic press articles written about it so it isn't an entirely forgotten car, but even now isn't exactly valuable either.

    As for old cars being tricked up on the continent, usually because they are cheap and cheerful, I had a nice pic of a modded 25 posted to me the other day. It doesn't make it worth a lot, but it is good they are being saved by people who enjoy the cars rather than thinking the cars will one day be worth a fortune which was the point I was making.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    it is an attractive vehicle in its own right - looks good on the road today, certainly not out of place with other vehicles (not a look at that funny old car reaction) and is quite capable of modification.
    No disagreements overall there, but I find from the rear they look a bit tall and narrow gutted. However the grey bumpers do date the car. As for modification, hopefully you don't mean body kits, the Fuego shape is too pure to be spoilt by body kits!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    I know of at least one car in Melbourne that has been stripped to a shell and everything re-done, owner plans a full width & length sunroof and top quality finish to suit, and several others under restoration with emphasis on total originality. Then there are the track style cars in planning and the everyday use cars like my family has.
    But was the rebuild done for profit? I doubt it, and even in the future the car is unlikely to increase in value over and above inflation. It has been done out of appreciation for the car itself. I can relate to what that owner is doing having done the same to a Renault 4, again, not in the hope of a massive resale, simply because I'm a sad geezer who doesn't have a life.

    I'd say the strip and rebuild is unlikely to cause a mass increase in market values. Certainly because Fuego's seem to last well, I'd be suspicious of such a rebuilt car knowing how well Fuego's seem to last (at least with non metallic paint) with a modicum of care, in the absence of knowing the owners' motivations if the car was on the market.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    I am very comfortable with what I see happenning with the Fuego and i don't do things just for resale value, I do them because I genuinely enjoy the cars.
    That's nice, just don't expect it to become a valuable collectors item like a Vauxhall 30/98 or a Mercedes 190SL or even a humble Volkswagen Karmann Ghia.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    What I don't like is the old fashioned and now out of date reverse snobbisness of certain groups who wrote the Fuego off (and the alpines) as virtually non renaults because of their distinctive design and presence on the road- pretty cars for would be pretty drivers (hairdressers ?) who wouldn't or couldn't get their hands dirty, I think that is as near to what I was told
    A majority of Fuego's were sold to doctors and professionals, only a handful to hairdressers, so that myth is well and truly blown. Renault didn't help by having such a stylish and sporty looking car that really wasn't a hard core sports car, more a grand tourer than anything else that was fine for covering long distances in style. It really didn't help in Australia that it didn't have power steering early on and automatic transmission as an option.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    The majority of owners here have an infinite love of their cars and the enjoyment of driving them. The only disadvantage for a young fellow in owning one is that when he marries and starts a family, needs change, but for those that have been lucky to purchase them at current low prices, they can store them without any loss until such time as they are ready to lavish time and a little bit of money to re-live that enjoyment
    I can't see that changing much in the future really, they will always be a nice affordable car that will be appreciated in the future. But like many semi sporty cars of the past, say Ford Capri (non V6's), Toyota Celica's, Lancia HPE's, Saab Turbo's etc, they will be sought after by enthusiastic previous owners who have happy memories of past times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    Meanwhile I will help every owner I can who is trying to keep these beautiful cars on the road where they should be.
    That is all good, and I'm sure that there are many other AF'ers who have the same sentiments as has been shown by the recent helpful replies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    Time you got out and drove one for enjoyment Relax the world wont end, just change a bit!!
    I'm afraid the Fuego just doesn't do it for me, way to sporty looking, and I find heavy to drive, also all the warning lights get blocked by the steering wheel for me, just call me Mr Puniverse or a weirdo. For you it's obviously fine, and that is cool too, and ensures that Fuego's have a safe future. Just leave me be to enjoy my relatively non seductive R4's, 8 and 12 which are all driven for my personal gratification.

    Let's revive this message in 20 years time from now, I'll be happy to be proven wrong if Fuego's value wise turn into the Mercedes 300SL, Monaro HK 327, or even BMW 2002 of the future. It would be my loss and your gain :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    As part of the explanation why the Alpine and the Fuego were regarded as "those cars" the fact noted, that those owners didn't mix with the other Renno herd, so a kind of reverse snobbery if you like developed
    I first joined the RCCSA in 1986, there were Fuego's involved there, and were not really regarded as anything different, just that they were new. Then Juging in 1987/88, again Fuego's were just another Renault, albeit newer, the owners mixed in. Then my first Round Up in Victoria in 1989, Fuego's were not excluded as such, by then David Cavanagh had done the Fuego V6 conversion, and there was a lovely dark blue Fuego with Simmons wheels, it looked so cool at the time. Also Fuego's were used as donor cars for 15's and 17's as I remember a 17 with Fuego seats......

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    Look When I first came accross Renaults,there had to be something going for them as the styling was boxy and in some cases only a mother could love them - when you join a club, you look a bit further into the marque and you can see why the owners love them - they are a driving, rallying cars that really give of their best and the owners love them.
    No need to join a club for that. All you needed to do was drive one. R16 owners in the 1960's and 1970's can tell you all about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    As part of the explanation why the Alpine and the Fuego were regarded as "those cars" the fact noted, that those owners didn't mix with the other Renno herd, so a kind of reverse snobbery if you like developed and, I agree that I and any other Renault owner would love an Alpine, the difference with the Alpine of course is that it was a rally proven car, the Fuego never got into that class.
    I've never been aware of any Fuego snobbery over the years at club events, but maybe your experiences have been different. I'm also trying to work out your point about Alpines & Fuegos - surely you are not comparing the two?

    IMO Alpine owners do their own thing for a few reasons (namely the cars are expensive (relative to standard Renault models), they are private imports and have most likely gone through a LHD/RHD conversion). Frankly I can understand why someone with a $80K GTA isn't real interested hanging around with a bunch of guys in yellow windcheaters talking about Renault 18 waterpumps.

    I'm not sure about the Fuego snobbery as I've not observed it myself, but it would hardly be for the same reasons. It's also important to know that in Europe, Fuegos really are considered completely out of fashion, especially in France. To have "Fuego Style" in France, means you are quite out of date, to the point now where it is sort of "retro-dag". There are even T-shirts sold with "Fuego Attitude" written on them (I own one). Renault haven't listed parts info in Dialogys for them for many years (older Renaults were and are still included)

    I've had plenty of experiences with Fuegos, my parents bought a Fuego in 1988 and just sold it this year after a nasty altercation with a kangaroo. I drove many thousands of kilometres in that car, even moved interstate in it. I washed, polished and armour-alled it dozens of times, and it was a nice car, especially back in the early 90's when it wasn't even 10 years old. Of course it was dynamically a lot better than my R17TS, and so it should have been considering the 10-12 years age gap in design. I can tell you though, the R17TS is so much more a drivers car than the Fuego - the gearbox ratios, the hum of the motor through the chassis - did I mention the gearbox ratios? ;-)

    A mate of mine owned several over the years, fitted cruise control and bodykits, lowered suspension etc. (it became quite obvious after his attempts that Fuegos are perfectly adequate from the factory and fiddling with them in this way didn't seem to be a good ROI)

    A few of us even cut a rolled one up for parts.

    We all enjoyed the Fuego over the years, but it did start showing signs of age and really the kangaroo incident just sealed it's fate.

    So as nice as Fuegos are, I'm not sure putting them on a pedestal at the expense of the other "boxy and in some cases only a mother could love them" models is really such a good thing, especially as those other models have a hell of a lot of pedigree and innovation.

    As an example, I really loved the various R12's I've had over the years, even including the current battered and worn out one, but I'm under no illusion that it's something special - it's a French Ford Cortina if you will - and history is going to forget Renault 12's. Seems unfair, but thats the way it seems to work.

    In the future? One things for sure, the world is going to remember a car like a Renault 16 a lot longer than a Renault Fuego.
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    Owning both a 16 and a Fuego daily driver (a while back) although vastly different, they seem to have captured 'a feel' between these cars IMO. Maybe its the gear ratios, I cant put my finger on it.

    If it weren't for the fact the Fuego was a 2 door, I would still be driving it.
    The 25 seems like a pretty simular replacement, but styling wise compared to the Fuego (IMO) is pretty dull.

    I would have more (non Renault nuts) approach me in the Fuego 'cool car, what is it?'.. whereas in the 16, mostly enthusiastic fenatics or previous 16 owners.

    I think this does say alot about the design of the Fuego, I think in true Renault form, its lines were ahead of their time. Although I look at the Fuego as being the last (of that time) of the really different look. 21's and 25's are pretty boring generic looking things. Its as if the formula was lost, and with the late clio's and rs meganes, Renault are back to their styling I find appealing.

    Its like anything, supply and demand. Others may despute it, but I still think Fuegos are widly underrated and their current $$$ worth doesn't help.

    I have to agree with Ken, particularly on one point, that the 'spares' will dry up, and spare cars are being absorbed..

    I think the Fuego has a wider appeal than the 'Renault lovers' community, and good examples are sold regularly for top $ too. I think on the forum especially the Fuego gets a hard rap, and some AF'ers want something for nothing, and I think also this does not reflect the open market, who ironically are much more receptive, and willing to pay for well maintained Fuego.

    I love the styling of Renaults all the way through from the 750 to the Fuego, with the exception of maybe the R4 and 18. IMO 6's arent much to look at either. Hey 12's aren't really my cop of tea either, but they must have won car of the year consecutively in Aust for a reason. BUT they all have their place, and its all a question of individual taste.

    I did have more to say, but ill stop ranting..
    Last edited by vivid; 2nd November 2005 at 01:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid
    I think the Fuego has a wider appeal than the 'Renault lovers' community, and good examples are sold regularly for top $ too. I think on the forum especially the Fuego gets a hard rap, and some AF'ers want something for nothing, and I think also this does not reflect the open market, who ironically are much more receptive, and willing to pay for well maintained Fuego.
    OK, what is "top $" for a Fuego? And quote an example of an actual sale please. A lot of people say things are worth $X, but there seems to be few examples to back it up. I guess I just get glazed when people try to pump the market with mythical values and heresay. Just enjoy the car for what it is, as I've said before, Fuego's are cool, though they are not a significant car that will be a future collectible or valuable car.

    If people only coveted collectible or valuable cars, Australia would not have the rich tapestry of "classic's" it has with things like Lightburn Zeta's, Morris Nomad's (preferably in Camino Gold) etc.. Without any of those more mundane cars being preserved by enthusiastic owners, the old car world would be a boring place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    OK, what is "top $" for a Fuego? And quote an example of an actual sale please. A lot of people say things are worth $X, but there seems to be few examples to back it up. I guess I just get glazed when people try to pump the market with mythical values and heresay. Just enjoy the car for what it is, as I've said before, Fuego's are cool, though they are not a significant car that will be a future collectible or valuable car.

    If people only coveted collectible or valuable cars, Australia would not have the rich tapestry of "classic's" it has with things like Lightburn Zeta's, Morris Nomad's (preferably in Camino Gold) etc.. Without any of those more mundane cars being preserved by enthusiastic owners, the old car world would be a boring place.
    Simon
    Your antipathy for Fuego enthusiasm on this forum is well known - now give it a break.

    Time will tell without your enthuisiastic knocking, and I prefer that. We like our cars and don't piss on yours (unless its a VW and thats just for fun , most of us actually like them)

    I'm sure I could dredge up some exotic price from overseas or even here in Melbourne, but why should I? You will never change from attacking our opinion of our beloved car and neither will I.

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    Over the years I have owned, two Dauphines, three R10's, two R12's, three R16TS's and now a 1983 Fuego. I too had little respect for the Fuego and bought it solely to replace my R12 as a tow car.

    When I first drove it, my first impression was that the steering and pedals were heavy and there was a lot of vibration from the road surface. The seats were harder than what I am used to.

    Aside from the road bumps and the petal seats, I was reminded of driving my beloved 16TS's. The car has continued to impress me. It corners well, has nice low end torque and, despite the funny seats, is quite comfortable. With no power steering, parking is quite aerobic but, once moving, the steering is precise with nice feedback similar to the 16TS. The brakes are better than I had hoped.

    I have people say to me, "Now that's a good looking car."

    My Fuego does not have synchro on 1st, 2nd or 3rd (I can double clutch - no problem), the tacho sticks at 3,000, I can't get the idle revs below 1300, the engine misses at random intervals and the turn indicators do not work if the air temperature is below 25C, but if anyone thinks I am going to give it up - no way.

    I will fix the problems, promise.

  19. #44
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    First is values of Fuegos- they are worth what people will pay but internationally they are increasing in value. With reference to VWs which I also like and restore you can buy a Beetle or a Kombi for $200 or $20,000 -just depends on condition etc
    This Kombi is not one you would get for $200 http://brookiethevwcamper.8k.com/

    Also the Feugo pictured under RDG members ,which is not for sale, has been repainted, new upholstery and has turbo and would be good value at $10,000 overseas.

    Back to suspensions-as most would know both Spax and Koni have deleted Fuego -BUT if someone in eastern states is interested they could follow up this e-mail I have just received. Some people recognise Fuegos!!

    "Warren,
    Thanks for contacting us. Sadly both Spax and Koni have deleted what they had for the Fuego's. The rear is probably easy to overcome and I know Spax will build us a one off set. The front is going to be the challenge. From memory the lower mount is a special bolt type of arrangement. Then there is the spring seat/s to consider. I would need to have a sample in our factory here to see what we could do and work it all out from there. Is that possible?

    Regards
    Geoff

    Proven Products Pty Ltd
    Ikon Suspension
    81 Boronia St
    North Albury
    NSW 2640
    Australia

    Ph: +61 (0)2 6040 9955
    Fx: +61 (0)2 6040 9911
    www.proven.com.au
    www.ikonsuspension.com
    1986 Renault Fuego GTX
    1972 Mercedes Benz 280E
    1988 Nissan Trakka Campervan
    1972 VW Kombi

    In business, words are words; explanations are explanations, promises are promises, but only performance is reality.
    Harold Ganeen.

  20. #45
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Will a Fuego ever become collectable? I don't know and I don't really care, I just enjoy scaring the pants off cars worth 10 times as much through corners
    Me TOO!!!!!
    Aus
    Aus
    ".....the good health of a pond is held in a delicate balance. A pond's condition
    deteriorates when the bottom environment cannot support animal life.
    The bottom is the area that runs out of oxygen first, it is where the most oxygen is used........"



    '84 fuego GTX
    '87 fuego GTX
    '85 fuego GTX
    ....beginning to look a bit frightning isn't it.

  21. #46
    Member DragoN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    OK, what is "top $" for a Fuego? And quote an example of an actual sale please. A lot of people say things are worth $X, but there seems to be few examples to back it up.
    Grahem at renafix in melbourne seems to be able to sell fuegos for ~$3500. i saw one there for sale for $3999. I asked him about what he was doing them to get them to sell for that much and he said all he had to do was make sure the pannals were straight and everything was working ok. Then he just took the buyers for a ride and he sold them fast.

    So Fuegos can sell fast and for a lot. He sells most to young ppl that are looking for a good car for a little bit. So i reakon if u do one up, modernise the elctronics and change the frount and rear bumpers(spray black or whatever) u can easily sell a good one for $4000 to teenagers.

    I had a offer for $3000k on my car from a friend, he could have been jokeing but i dont think so.

    Its all about who and where u sell the car! Well thats my 2c

  22. #47
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Australdi
    Me TOO!!!!!
    Aus
    Jo's estimated fuego value $800.(dont hit me on the head,Vivid,it hurts) 10x = $8000
    I recon you could up that to 50X and still scare the pants of 'em.
    Jo
    Ps oops wrong quote.
    Last edited by jo proffi; 2nd November 2005 at 02:55 PM.

  23. #48
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    Jo's estimated fuego value $800.(dont hit me on the head,Vivid,it hurts) 10x = $8000
    I recon you could up that to 50X and still scare the pants of 'em.
    Jo
    Ps oops wrong quote.
    So an $800 Fuego will outhandle a $35K RS Clio? (thats about 44X)
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  24. #49
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Maybey, maybe not, but if its even stevens ,and I'm on the inside,aproaching a corner, you can bet the 44x guy will have his pants scared off him wondering if I'll make it..If we are talking around town,My car is the fastest over the rough stuff/speed humps cause i dont give a rats.if I break it,I'll fix it.If I cant fix it,I'll get a new fuego,probably for less than the cost of a RCS spoiler.
    Jo

  25. #50
    Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    Simon
    Your antipathy for Fuego enthusiasm on this forum is well known - now give it a break.
    Where have I been knocking Fuego's or knocking those who have enthusiasm for Fuego's? My advice in the past where people have asked for buying advice or advice in general has been fairly accurate and balanced, free of any bias. You are the one who is trying to talk up values on a car that is clearly at rock bottom in terms of purchase price, where there is little apparent evidence that values are actually increasing. All I asked for are examples of what Fuego's have sold for, not guesstimates of what they are worth to present owners. If that is was the case then sure, a Fuego would have an in-use value of close to $30,000 or $1,000,000 as it provides virtually the same service as either a new Falcon or a Maybach. It has seats, roof, A/C and starts and stops.

    Ken, you are heading along the track to becoming a Henry Kaye of the Fuego world, spruiking possible future fortunes with little substance to back up the values now :-)


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    Time will tell without your enthuisiastic knocking, and I prefer that. We like our cars and don't piss on yours (unless its a VW and thats just for fun , most of us actually like them)
    Again, where have I knocked any Fuego's? I have provided my opinion of why Fuego's don't suit me, that is all. You told me to drive one for enjoyment, in your previous message, I gave reasons why I didn’t enjoy it from past experiences. Different strokes for different folks, I know for sure that my impression of all my cars is likely to be different to anyone else’s. I don’t ask them to change to mould to a car that doesn’t suit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    I'm sure I could dredge up some exotic price from overseas or even here in Melbourne, but why should I? You will never change from attacking our opinion of our beloved car and neither will I.
    I think you should because you are presently spruiking that Fuego's are valuable or becoming valuable, what is your opinion based on? All I'm asking is for evidence. If you can't back something up, why promote it as fact that values are increasing. A quick search of Ebay will show that Fuego's are still cheap as chips, which is all good for those who are enthusiastic about them.

    You provide the facts, and I will re-consider my point of view on value. I'm more than happy to be pleasantly surprised

    I've typed it once, I could do so a thousand times. At no time have I attacked anybody's opinion of Fuego's, they are not a bad car. All I have questioned is your idea on values which are not supported by fact, or any actual figures for that matter :-).


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    First is values of Fuegos- they are worth what people will pay but internationally they are increasing in value.
    I agree entirely that the value is what people are willing to pay, different days with different buyers etc etc.. However given the willing buyer, willing seller scenario, both unmotivated parties, would tend to indicate that top wedge for a Fuego in top original condition is in the order of $3.5-4K. Recently, I've never known one to sell for more, and the values on the average Fuego's that are left is certainly not increasing. But again, provide evidence, and I'm more than happy to be proven wrong.

    DragoN provided info that seems to concur with my thoughts too. For that money you really would expect something that is ready to go, sound of body and mind and doesn’t need any work.

    However the fact that values are not increasing does not diminish the fact that they should not be looked after and cared for. Just that they are what they are, an old car, with an enthusiastic following. A scene that the older Renault community has been trading off for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    With reference to VWs which I also like and restore you can buy a Beetle or a Kombi for $200 or $20,000 -just depends on condition etc
    A scruffy rusted split screen Kombi would be worth more than the average condition Fuego. But it is the same with any car whether new or old. Thing is stuff like split screen Kombi’s, especially the Microbus Deluxe is heading up in value (if not plateauing). The later bay window cars are a different kettle of bolts, the average ones have probably bottomed out in terms of value with the good original ones commanding a premium.

    Stuff like Karmann Ghia’s are different again. Once $150 fodder in the mid 70’s, now good ones are sought after and command $10K upwards, even the previously unloved K-G Type 3 is gaining favour. Unfortunately I don’t consider the Fuego will be in the same league, again my opinion only, and twenty years hence I’m happy to be proven wrong if the Fuego commands a much higher value than its contemporary competitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Also the Feugo pictured under RDG members ,which is not for sale, has been repainted, new upholstery and has turbo and would be good value at $10,000 overseas.
    It may well be to you, but would someone actually pay that money? As usual restorations cost money, sometimes in excess of the market value. Those restorations are usually carried out in full knowledge of that fact, and it is a well known fact that cost does not always equal value. As I mentioned in a previous reply, these jobs are carried out by dedicated enthusiasts who will be restoring the car out of passion, rather than any intrinsic thought of making a huge sum if they decide to sell the car.

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