Alpine A110 Rear End
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! MARK BIRD's Avatar
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    Default Alpine A110 Rear End

    I am currently looking at a project for a road going Dauphine which will use either a UN1 or NG style box. I am designing it to use a rear suspension in the style of the late A110 alpine or A310. Does any one out there have a parts view or any type of drawings that would aid me in this design. I have all I need on the early A110 but not the late one with this style of suspension.
    Cheers Mark

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MARK BIRD
    I am currently looking at a project for a road going Dauphine which will use either a UN1 or NG style box. I am designing it to use a rear suspension in the style of the late A110 alpine or A310. Does any one out there have a parts view or any type of drawings that would aid me in this design. I have all I need on the early A110 but not the late one with this style of suspension.
    Cheers Mark
    Damien Gardiner did something a bit like that with his supercharged 10. There should be thread/s here with some of the info. If I recollect David Cavanagh was involved on that project as well.

    Sounds like a great idea.

    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

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    Fellow Frogger! MARK BIRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BogMaster
    Damien Gardiner did something a bit like that with his supercharged 10. There should be thread/s here with some of the info. If I recollect David Cavanagh was involved on that project as well.

    Sounds like a great idea.

    Yep does away with the gearbox problems and handling limits with the swing axle rear end. Gives me full rear end adjustment. I am also doing the same with the front end with adjustable A arms. There was a Company in the UK that did modular rear ends using the UN1 box came with full suspension and hubs for kit cars. Possibly going the Douvrin 2 litre route but waiting to finish the cardboard mock up of motor to see what physical restraints are there as dont want to mess with the bonnet lines if possible. Will check previuos posts thanks

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    Default Keep us all posted!

    Quote Originally Posted by MARK BIRD
    Yep does away with the gearbox problems and handling limits with the swing axle rear end. Gives me full rear end adjustment. I am also doing the same with the front end with adjustable A arms. There was a Company in the UK that did modular rear ends using the UN1 box came with full suspension and hubs for kit cars. Possibly going the Douvrin 2 litre route but waiting to finish the cardboard mock up of motor to see what physical restraints are there as dont want to mess with the bonnet lines if possible. Will check previuos posts thanks
    The only things that I have seen that include any of this would not be enough to build from, although the book by Len Terry, who claims to have been the designer of this shows some, but again no detail. I would suggest that you do NOT use the NG5 box, all experiences of these as they age are not great, the other members of this family I have no knowledge of.

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    Fellow Frogger! MARK BIRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwia110
    The only things that I have seen that include any of this would not be enough to build from, although the book by Len Terry, who claims to have been the designer of this shows some, but again no detail. I would suggest that you do NOT use the NG5 box, all experiences of these as they age are not great, the other members of this family I have no knowledge of.
    My first choice would be the UN1 "do it right the first time" But this box does not to my knowledge have a bell housing that adapts to the 1600 engine so I would need to build one . I dont have a problem building one but it adds to the work load. This is why I am looking at the 2 litre. I was looking at the NG box as its plentiful, cheap and physically smaller but I guess if I am to design and build a subframe I might as well do it for the best box available. (A R20 5 speed would do the same). The purists would not like what I am doing as it means a bit of undercarraige cutting and modification.

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    Fellow Frogger! MARK BIRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwia110
    The only things that I have seen that include any of this would not be enough to build from, although the book by Len Terry, who claims to have been the designer of this shows some, but again no detail. I would suggest that you do NOT use the NG5 box, all experiences of these as they age are not great, the other members of this family I have no knowledge of.
    My first choice would be the UN1 "do it right the first time" But this box does not to my knowledge have a bell housing that adapts to the 1600 engine so I would need to build one . I dont have a problem building one but it adds to the work load. This is why I am looking at the 2 litre. I was looking at the NG box as its plentiful, cheap and physically smaller but I guess if I am to design and build a subframe I might as well do it for the best box available. (A R20 5 speed would do the same). The purists would not like what I am doing as it means a bit of undercarraige cutting and modification. I have checked previous posts on similar builds and it appears that they used existing Renault parts from either the donor car or other models. I do not want to go this route as it is messy/ bulky and lacks engineering grace and full adjustability. Will checkout the book you mention. Looks like I will have to design it all from scratch.

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    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
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    I have seen a drawing of the rear suspension setup you talk about, its in a book that I lent to Kiwi A110.

    The book is a compilation of all the period articles written on A110, A310, GTA etc.

    I or Kiwi A110 would be happy to photocopy the drawing and send it to you. Its not detailed enough to build a complete setup but could help combined with other information.

    Sounds like a great project, I am currently building my second Dauphine rally car but will stick with the swing axles, they can be a bit evil at times but I am going to experiment with Z bars on number 2 and see if sort out a few issues.

    Have you got a good shell??

    Just a thought, if you are going to all the trouble of a subframe and independant rear why not go for mid engine, has been done more than once before.
    Ross:

    1989 Alpine GTA Twin Turbo
    1963 Renault R8
    1996 Peugeot 106 S16
    1967 NSU Prinz 1200TT
    1989 Peugeot 205 GTi

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    Can the diff on the NG3 be flopped over to reverse the drive if using it with a rear not a mid enged mode? The centre of the pinion in an NG3 is below the centre of the crownwheel which usually means the diff cannot just be flopped over to reverse its direction. The 367/369/UN1 CW&P centres are the same, so the diff can be flopped over to the other side.

    Also there is this site which has a scanned copy of the A310/6 parts book which may be useful as some reference.

    http://perso.wanadoo.fr/alpine-arden...ons/index1.htm

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! MARK BIRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    Can the diff on the NG3 be flopped over to reverse the drive if using it with a rear not a mid enged mode? The centre of the pinion in an NG3 is below the centre of the crownwheel which usually means the diff cannot just be flopped over to reverse its direction. The 367/369/UN1 CW&P centres are the same, so the diff can be flopped over to the other side.

    Also there is this site which has a scanned copy of the A310/6 parts book which may be useful as some reference.

    http://perso.wanadoo.fr/alpine-arden...ons/index1.htm
    Thanks Simon I have Renaults current Dialogsy on my home computor and have the parts breakdown you describe thank you for the offer. You are right about the boxes and my firm choice is the 369 or UN1. Really kicking myself now as I gave away 2 R20 5 speeds to a guy in the QLD Renault car club and a swag of driveshafts!

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! MARK BIRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross
    I have seen a drawing of the rear suspension setup you talk about, its in a book that I lent to Kiwi A110.

    The book is a compilation of all the period articles written on A110, A310, GTA etc.

    I or Kiwi A110 would be happy to photocopy the drawing and send it to you. Its not detailed enough to build a complete setup but could help combined with other information.

    Sounds like a great project, I am currently building my second Dauphine rally car but will stick with the swing axles, they can be a bit evil at times but I am going to experiment with Z bars on number 2 and see if sort out a few issues.

    Have you got a good shell??

    Just a thought, if you are going to all the trouble of a subframe and independant rear why not go for mid engine, has been done more than once before.
    The shell I have is perfect absolutley no rust. I have chosen to not go the swing axle route because I know that it costs a lot to get them strong and then they still have their weakneses as I am sure you drive yours with a sympathetic style knowing that if you did this or that it would go or could go pop! I have looked on a lot of Euro sites for Dauphines and I can see why they stick with the swing axles I think they have a more "ready" access to the types of gearboxes we would like to have so why bother re-engineering. I would appreciate a photocopy of the rear ends. The mid mount idea is in the shadows at the moment.
    Regards Mark

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MARK BIRD
    I have chosen to not go the swing axle route because I know that it costs a lot to get them strong and then they still have their weakneses as I am sure you drive yours with a sympathetic style knowing that if you did this or that it would go or could go pop!
    Regards Mark
    We have developed a stronger box by putting R16 internals into R8 casings, all the details are in another thread, it cost us a fair bit of time and a few headaches but very little money so I have to disagree that it cost a lot to get them strong.

    As for being sympathetic I am when launching, definitely no side stepping the clutch but once on the move I go as hard as possible (too hard at times) and have never had any gearbox trouble.
    Ross:

    1989 Alpine GTA Twin Turbo
    1963 Renault R8
    1996 Peugeot 106 S16
    1967 NSU Prinz 1200TT
    1989 Peugeot 205 GTi

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! MARK BIRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross
    We have developed a stronger box by putting R16 internals into R8 casings, all the details are in another thread, it cost us a fair bit of time and a few headaches but very little money so I have to disagree that it cost a lot to get them strong.

    As for being sympathetic I am when launching, definitely no side stepping the clutch but once on the move I go as hard as possible (too hard at times) and have never had any gearbox trouble.
    See your point on the cost side. no side stepping would be to save the spicer joints I assume. I am looking at minimum of 175 hp more if I go the 2 litre motor and this might be near the limit for a good old 4 speed but in the end my design criteria is for a 5 speed and a fully adjustable rear end. I am going to use my own wishbones up front what are you using to get good geometry?

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Default Damien Gardiner's irs 10

    Just a note on what Damien did to his vehicle. From what I can gather Simon the gearbox must be adaptablt to the engine in the back layout :

    R10, 16TS engine, EFi, Supercharged, Boost pressure water injected, intercooled. Custom extractors, Scorcher Dissy, to suit EFI. R116TS g/box.

    Rear suspension from R18 wishbones & drive shafts, adjustable for:- camber, caster, toe in/out and ride height. 2 1/2 deg Neg camber all round, 4 x 6" x 13" rims, with 205 x 13 Avon Race tyres. Fronts offset to match track of the rear end.
    All guards extended to fit CAMS Reg's, front spoiler and large adjustable rear wing.
    6 point roll cage, new 4 point harness. Custom fibreglass race seat.
    Dash gauges 5" Tacho, 2" boost, Deat temp, Water temp, Oil pressure.
    R17 Engine in pieces, but all there.
    The moulds for the Seat & Rear wing, will also be supplied along with R 10 & R16 Manuals & copies, of all Camira Manual sections, appropriate to the EFi system.
    Probably lots of other stuff as well.
    Minor dash wiring, is all thats needed to finish it.
    CAMS Log book. $2500 CAR SOLD
    Pic's and story on my web site,

    Damien is still on the AF books Mark, you could do benefit from contacting him. I'm sure he would "share the knowledge".

    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MARK BIRD
    See your point on the cost side. no side stepping would be to save the spicer joints I assume. I am looking at minimum of 175 hp more if I go the 2 litre motor and this might be near the limit for a good old 4 speed but in the end my design criteria is for a 5 speed and a fully adjustable rear end. I am going to use my own wishbones up front what are you using to get good geometry?
    I am using the std R8 wishbones top and bottom with our version of the "Dangel" kit. This is off centre bushes on both top and bottom to give up to 3 degrees negative camber, I run 2 degrees.
    Ross:

    1989 Alpine GTA Twin Turbo
    1963 Renault R8
    1996 Peugeot 106 S16
    1967 NSU Prinz 1200TT
    1989 Peugeot 205 GTi

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