Fuego air intake
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Fuego air intake

    Hey,
    I've had lots of problems.. at the moment it's the loss of power under load...

    I took the air filter off and the problem disappeared! So maybe that's part of the problem. My question is: what problems would be encountered if I removed the standard air box and replace it with a pod filter (as these can be brought cheaper!).

    This seems to be a common performance enhancement on many other cars, however I have read on this thread that the air warmer is necessary to stop the carb icing. Does this apply to the weber, because I can't really see a reason why you should get icing (it's hot, the fuel and air vapour aren't under compression so there's no endothermic expansion). I can understand why the air warmer is neccasy for cold starting etc...

    Does anyone else have experience with this.

    Also there are a couple of extra tubes on the top of the air filter pod, what do these do?

    Cheers

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  2. #2
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    Default Choke flap closing

    I would say that as the problem went when the pod was removed, your choke flap has been closing under load, this would cause the engine to die with the excess fuel and little air. Reset of the choke mechanism may help as per Haynes manual. Check that the hot water circulation tubes to this area are not blocked.

    Two tubes to the pod - top one is connected to consume engine fumes from the top rear of the rocker cover - the other goes back to the electronic pack vacuum sensor.

    On the choke flap - The Gonz removed his choke flap completely, solved all problems and increased mileage, not sure how it will go in winter!
    Mistarenno replaced water heated bimetal system with electric heated choke control from another weber carby, also solved problem and is superior to other fixes and no problems with icing up of carby - pm him.

  3. #3
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    Trust me Dougs.....the weber can & does ice up without the reticulation hose on...& seeing the price of fuel these days, you probably don't want to test it for yourself....all it takes, (if the hose is off) is to do a long drive on a country road @ 100kms/hr for about 20 mins on a cold night before the loss of power becomes noticable (and the fuel gauge drops at an alarming speed!)
    for many years I drove without my choke operating (turned the housing around) & didn't notice it being overly hard to start on cold mornings...

    however it probably wasn't the most efficient way to solve the problem....so as soon as I became aware of the cause (thanks to a renault specialist) I spent $16 dollars on a new length of hose...and voila! choke & car worked fine for the next 700,000kms!

    As your prob is under load, rather than cold nights...it sounds as tho your butterflys might be closed or at the very least sticking...you could try first isolating the choke by turning it off (rotate the housing clockwise about 90deg, from memory) until the butterflies remain open... if that doesn't solve it...it's not the choke itself...might be twisted butterflies (if they're not opening up freely) or a blockage in the main jet....(I used to run 2 in-line fuel filters as well)

    another lateral thought....does it happen after you have run your tank low....due to their age, some of the fuego tanks are getting pretty gunky down the bottom (my current one is an example) when I let the tank get low (yellow light on) then fill up...I let the car sit for a little while to let the gunk settle, otherwise if I drive off & put the car under load...I end up with a blockage from the stirred up gunk & the car runs like a bag of fertiliser! & then requires the carby to be cleaned. (easy way to do this is the hands over the venturies until the car almost stalls then quick release...the vacuum created usually sucks the jet clean) but back to the point...maybe your fuel tank needs cleaning or replacement?
    hope some of this helps

    Aus
    (the more I think about it...it sounds like a partially blocked jet tho....)
    Aus
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  4. #4
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Second the sentiment Astraldi, had the problem when the reticulation hose had fallen off (didnt notice) on a cold night up to Ballarat.

    Cost me about $35 to get to ballarat, car died twice (car-b-clean started her again) and the last time it konked out, the starter had died... Meant a long cold night for my partner and I in the hatch without any padding or bedding.

    In the morning I worked out it was simply the solenoid wire that had fallen from the starter, due to the shuddering etc..

    When I worked out it was the reticulation hose we never had that problem again.

    David.
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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Re pod,I've always used one but all my cars have been 220K+ examples that wern't running that well to begin with,so I cant realy say weather they make the car go better or worse.but they make the car sound hot , and I lament the loss of that second chamber roar, now I have EFI.The only reason I've gone pod is price.You can get a very cheap one for $25 or a real good one for $125. let me tell you though ,it gets pretty hot down there in podsville, with my average trafic temp at + 55.this drops slowly once on the open road.Maybe its the way I drive or a sydney thing or whatever, but I've never had my carb ice up,and have never run the hot air snorkle.I'm planing some sort of cold air induction but am still in dreamy stage on that one.
    Vivid,watch that little piddly solenoid wire that has the potential to burn out your whole loom. make sure it stays in place and is insulated if it moves.
    Jo

  6. #6
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    Vivid,watch that little piddly solenoid wire that has the potential to burn out your whole loom. make sure it stays in place and is insulated if it moves.
    Jo
    Good advice Jo, the solenoid connector is usually insulated with a plastic surround, but because of where it is, if its cracked or missing, as you said it could easily burn out a loom if it connects to earth. Had a fuego burn its loom before, was a death sentince for that car, as the quote to replace the loom was in excess of $1500.

    Tho I wont be driving the Fuego until the engine is back together, pref with an R21 EFI head... Would you do it over again Jo? Would you do anything differently? Is anything lost from the "fuego charm" from the conversion in your opinion?

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  7. #7
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    The weber will certainly ice up in a Melbourne winter, so it needs its hot water. The hot air intake is not needed and I usually remove them or wire them open. I took a car to the snow a few years back, it got covered in snow. When it was dug out it started immediately so in Oz I don't think we need hot air. Many parts of Europe would certainly need it.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Would I do it again? I'd certainly EFI another fuego, but this time around I'd just get an injection head/manifold/injectors and go aftermarket with the sensors and ECU. On the plus side, fuel economy is back to realistic for a 2L,ie 10Km per L,the thing idles like it should, and has heaps of low rev grunt.On the negative, lots of messing around with the install.ie,fuel lines ,tank pick-up, exhaust, heater. The carby sound was hot, the EFI sound is below average.the motor seems to like the low end of things, but my tune is sick as the o2 and knock sensor are not happy.
    It is a big step from carby to EFi, and an even biger one from carby to after market EFI. for this reason I chose to take the safer,smaller step of going to a R21 system,and was still majorly challenged by little things like a dirty coil contact which stopped me in my tracks for three days!
    My decision to go after market with the ECU is mainly to get the car high tech and tunable, with a laptop in the cabin, but the $270, imported from france and taking 2 weeks ,knock sensor helped to reach that decision.
    would I do it again..Not the same way.
    should you do It??...definatly yes.
    Good luck,Jo

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Go the Fuego EFI conversion (ps EFI motor for sale )
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Someone could have killed two birds with the one stone by buying Al's fuego and putting Haakons motor in it!!
    Jo

  11. #11
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Haakon, if you can hold out a little longer (2nd baby due any day now) I do still want to EFI the Fuego. Not sure if I want the head, or the whole lot.. Will have to chat to you sometime soon about 25 parts too...

    Now this thread originally had something to do with carby Fuegos right?

    David.
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  12. #12
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    Default choke conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by vivid
    now this thread originally had something to do with carby Fuegos right? David.
    This is a link to Mistarennos weber electric choke conversion thread

    Electric auto choke for Fuego (and others)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    On the plus side, fuel economy is back to realistic for a 2L,ie 10Km per L,the thing idles like it should, and has heaps of low rev grunt.
    Ummm... I hate to be the bearer of bad news Jo, but a Fuego should easily get that anyway...

    My Fuego on the highway gets about 7-8l/100k (at 100kph) and between 10-12/100 around town (depending on how nice or naughty you are)

    That is just normal driving with the odd quirt here and there...

    It is completely standard apart from a set of extractors, the eletric choke...

    Out of interest, what did your Fuego get with the Weber?
    Last edited by mistareno; 3rd October 2005 at 06:43 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    This is a link to Mistarennos weber electric choke conversion thread

    Electric auto choke for Fuego (and others)

    Would this solution work as well for a R20? Been having choke troubles myself!

    As for the hot air intake, my 20 takes too long to warm up without it, and that's bad isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by leithant
    Would this solution work as well for a R20? Been having choke troubles myself!

    As for the hot air intake, my 20 takes too long to warm up without it, and that's bad isn't it?
    I'm under the impression that it will work with any weber carb that runs a water heated choke assy...

    I'll try and take a photo today to show you how simply it fits up...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    I'm under the impression that it will work with any weber carb that runs a water heated choke assy...

    I'll try and take a photo today to show you how simply it fits up...

    That'd be great thanks!

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Ummm... I hate to be the bearer of bad news Jo, but a Fuego should easily get that anyway...

    My Fuego on the highway gets about 7-8l/100k (at 100kph) and between 10-12/100 around town (depending on how nice or naughty you are)

    That is just normal driving with the odd quirt here and there...

    It is completely standard apart from a set of extractors, the eletric choke...

    Out of interest, what did your Fuego get with the Weber?

    My fuego, and every one I've ever had has given me crap economy.It was my only major criticisim I've had of the car.I drive my car naughty,and do some ocasional high speed stuff,and was getting between 220,and 270Kms per 50L tank. Now its around the 480-520Km range for the same driving style and fuel.
    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    I was getting between 220,and 270Kms per 50L tank. Now its around the 480-520Km range for the same driving style and fuel.
    Jo
    I know that if you punt them hard with the weber the economy suffers a bit but that's about 25L/100k

    I think you've had a major tune issue there. I don't think I'd get anywhere near that even if I really tried every conciveable way of wasting fuel and did it all with the handbrake on...

    I'm getting pretty much what you are now...

    400k if I drive it really hard...

  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    I know that if you punt them hard with the weber the economy suffers a bit but that's about 25L/100k

    I think you've had a major tune issue there. I don't think I'd get anywhere near that even if I really tried every conciveable way of wasting fuel and did it all with the handbrake on...

    I'm getting pretty much what you are now...

    400k if I drive it really hard...
    That's impressive just under 13mpg ........... The worst I've ever returned from my CX is 17L/100k ....................... and that was towing a 17' caravan

    Checks:
    --chokes definatly stuck on
    --anti deisel soleniod is definatly dead, so someone has raised the idle speed to compensate.
    --float level may be to high
    --is the accallerator pump dribbling all the time ??

    I really do think getting 12mpg from a Fuego is an incredible act ... Even a big block chevy would struggle to get that low

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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    I know that if you punt them hard with the weber the economy suffers a bit but that's about 25L/100k

    I think you've had a major tune issue there. I don't think I'd get anywhere near that even if I really tried every conciveable way of wasting fuel and did it all with the handbrake on...

    I'm getting pretty much what you are now...

    400k if I drive it really hard...
    That figure was not the worst, but the average.The most fuel I've ever used was climbing this massive plateau, on the NSW south coast. cant remember the name of the road but it took me from the sea side, up and up and up ,and then up some more ,via the twistiest,steepest ,fast stuff I've ever driven,to a plateau that looked like mars with wide open planes.All flat out in second gear.It might have been narooma to cooma.anyway I was showing empty after about 120 Km. The passenger and luggage combined with the steepness and me fanging it much too hard had emptied my tank, but it was one of the most intense drives I've done and well worth the cost of a re -fill.
    Jo
    Last edited by jo proffi; 4th October 2005 at 01:22 PM. Reason: gramma

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Default mistaken

    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    My fuego, and every one I've ever had has given me crap economy.It was my only major criticisim I've had of the car.I drive my car naughty,and do some ocasional high speed stuff,and was getting between 220,and 270Kms per 50L tank. Now its around the 480-520Km range for the same driving style and fuel.
    Jo
    BIG MISTAKE BIG MISTAKE 320-370, not 220 - 270 Km per tank.
    whoops,I dont need to make it any worse than it was.
    Jo

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Vivid,

    you're not using the fact that you're wife is having a baby hold you up from amassing the largest privately owned renault supply in the southern hemisphere are you?

    Aussiefrogs would never have been founded if we all behaved like that.

    Come on man, get your priorities right, women have babies every day, but will those parts still be there in a few days.

    Could you live without efi, even for a few days, the choice is obvious.

    You know I'm right.

    ed ge




    CONGRATULATIONS

  23. #23
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    Jo...I used to get 660kms out of the 50lt tank (running optimax) on my original fuego on country runs ....& there's enough people around here to confirm that I don't "baby" my cars....

    I get about 480 - 520kms out of the current one...but I don't believe I have the tuning right on it yet (all done by ear & sight) & I'm currently running the idle high....

    but when properly tuned the weber can give fantastic fuel economy, even with spirited driving & it sounds heavenly!

    EFI isn't tempting me at all....although turbo is ....I want to be able to overtake like an RCS, creaming them on the twisties is no loger enough satisfaction

    Aus
    Aus
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    deteriorates when the bottom environment cannot support animal life.
    The bottom is the area that runs out of oxygen first, it is where the most oxygen is used........"



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    '87 fuego GTX
    '85 fuego GTX
    ....beginning to look a bit frightning isn't it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by leithant
    Would this solution work as well for a R20? Been having choke troubles myself!

    As for the hot air intake, my 20 takes too long to warm up without it, and that's bad isn't it?
    My 20 lives in melbourne too.
    If your 20 is taking a long time to warm up say more than 2-3Km before the needle starts to move (thermostat opening) it is nothing to do with hot air intake it is probably your choke not working, just whip off the aircleaner joining thingy and see if it is open after about 5 minutes of fast idle sat 2000 rpm. If it isn't something is wrong. Are all your electrical connection to your carby intact? Once the car is up to temp and presuming you have good plugs and points try retuning the "pilot air screw' not to be confused with the idle screw. I have found the PAS needs to be a bit richer than when it ran on Super.
    I have not tried the alcohol blends yet but It has got to better than the rubbish called ULP. Rest assured there is nothing in 20 motor that will not like a bit of alcohol. If one is worried about reduced upper cylinder lubrication try a 250:1 mix (or there abouts) of fuel to outboard 2 stroke oil.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    or just run synth or semi synthetic oil and the vapours should lube the inlet just fine.
    Jo

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