Renault 1st's........
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  1. #1
    ade
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    Default Renault 1st's........

    I am a 504 owner so don't check the renault forum that often, so forgive me if this topic has cropped up before.

    I was thinking, to the best of my knowledge renault has been the first on the scene with a number of innovations, namely:

    1) 1st mass produced car with 4 wheel disk brakes (R8)

    2) 1st hatch back (R16)

    3) 1st with plastic bumpers (R5 - maybe not something to boast about!)

    Correct me if I am wrong.


    The question is, are there any other innovations that have also become wide spread that renault pioneered?

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    Icon11 Renault Fuego first

    It should come as no surprise to some that I should mention this
    The Renault Fuego is the first production car in Australia to incorporate remote central locking, I think

  3. #3
    farmerdave
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    The sliding pinion gearbox- patented in 1899 .There is also the electronically controlled automatic gearbox, first used in the R16.
    Last edited by farmerdave; 2nd October 2005 at 09:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ade
    I am a 504 owner so don't check the renault forum that often, so forgive me if this topic has cropped up before.

    I was thinking, to the best of my knowledge renault has been the first on the scene with a number of innovations, namely:

    1) 1st mass produced car with 4 wheel disk brakes (R8)

    2) 1st hatch back (R16)

    3) 1st with plastic bumpers (R5 - maybe not something to boast about!)

    Correct me if I am wrong.


    The question is, are there any other innovations that have also become wide spread that renault pioneered?


    I could be wrong, but I believe that Renault pioneered supercharging back in the 1920's, then the world's first mass produced front wheel drive cars. Also developing new market segments: Think Espace (1984), Scenic (1997), Avantime (2002). Some with more success than others lol

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    1000+ Posts The Gonz's Avatar
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    Icon12 Google it!

    It's quite easy, really. Hit Google with 'Renault' and 'pioneered' and you will read about:
    1. turbo engines
    2. light tanks (military)
    3. aerodynamic cooling ducts
    4. chimney winglet combinations
    5. children's booster-less seating
    6. storage cubby in front footwells due to double floor construction
    ... and that's just on page 1 of 78!

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    From a media release:

    "23/05/2005 Patent champion
    With 317 patents registered with the French Institut national de propriété industrielle (INPI) in 2004, Renault is the leader in France (this figure represents patent requests filed 24 to 30 months ago). In four years, the number of patents filed by the group has doubled, reaching 743 in 2004, excluding Dacia and RSM."
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    As I mentioned in the R21 thread I believe they were the first, and only, to offer transverse and in-line engines in the same model.

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    ade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marwood
    As I mentioned in the R21 thread I believe they were the first, and only, to offer transverse and in-line engines in the same model.
    wow, I never knew that, how unusual. I imagine the only reason would be tooling/production/volume to intergrate the 21 with other models half way during its life. I assume it went from longitudinal to transverse?

    I know there was a couple of japanese cars in the early 80's that offered rwd and fwd for the same model (but no 4wd) for this reason.

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    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    No one's mentioned seat belts yet .....they pioneered those too

    and the Laguna was the first car ever to receive the 5 star euro saftey rating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nzrhysco
    I could be wrong, but I believe that Renault pioneered supercharging back in the 1920's, then the world's first mass produced front wheel drive cars.
    Do you not think the Traction Avant (ie: Front wheel drive). Also known as the Light 15, Big 6, Legere, etc ... ie: Traction that was built from the 1930's until the 1950's was mass produced. Citroen were no doubt NOT the first though.

    I'm just trying to think of anything intersting/pioneering that Poogoe has ever done .... And have drawn a complete blank

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    I'm just trying to think of anything intersting/pioneering that Poogoe has ever done .... And have drawn a complete blank
    Shane it has always been citroen/Renault I agree with you on this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    I'm just trying to think of anything intersting/pioneering that Poogoe has ever done .... And have drawn a complete blank

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    Gotcha!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ade
    wow, I never knew that, how unusual. I imagine the only reason would be tooling/production/volume to intergrate the 21 with other models half way during its life. I assume it went from longitudinal to transverse?

    I know there was a couple of japanese cars in the early 80's that offered rwd and fwd for the same model (but no 4wd) for this reason.
    Both configurations were freely available throughout the model's life. The 1.7 Petrol and 1.9 Diesel had transverse engines while the 2.0 Petrol and the 2.1 Diesel had longitudinal engines. The steering and front suspenstion was totally different and the longitudinal engine bay was much more crowded. Small engines are more of a European thing so Australia probably never saw the transverse variants.

    I'm sure there must have been some kind of logic involved, though it sounds to me like the kind of logic that comes in bottles.


    In the UK Triumph had already gone one better. They produced a fwd car in the sixties then in the seventies they converted it to rwd and sold it as a new model without discontinuing the fwd model. Full story on this excellent website about Leyland.

    Regarding Peugeot- they didn't actually invent the small diesel engine but in the eighties they led the way in making diesel appeal to the ordinary motorist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Australdi
    No one's mentioned seat belts yet .....they pioneered those too
    That's what they claim - an old Scenic brochure I have says they patented them in 1903. But it's a fact they seem to have shied away from in recent times.

    They forgot to mention that a certain Edward J. Claghorn of New York patented the basic seat belt in New York on February 10, 1885 Of course, noone disputes that Volvo invented the three point seatbelt, arguably the most significant automotive safety innovation

    Searching online - it's not easy finding anything stating Renault has been an innovator for seatbelts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Searching online - it's not easy finding anything stating Renault has been an innovator for seatbelts.
    Probably because they haven't been an innovator as far as modern seat belts go. Seat belt anchorages were not fitted to Renault passenger cars until the 1964 MY for front seat passengers, 1965 for the upper sash fitting to be reinforced with a threaded sash fitting, and 1970 MY for rear seat passengers. Hardly anything earth shattering there, especially considering Volvo first fitted three point belts in 1959, and VW had at least sash only anchorage points in all outboard positions from 1962 onwards.
    Last edited by Simon; 4th October 2005 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Alteration to MY typo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marwood
    As I mentioned in the R21 thread I believe they were the first, and only, to offer transverse and in-line engines in the same model.
    There is also the Citroen BX 4TC, yeah OK, it was a Group B homologation special but it was a production car. A Chrysler 180/Centura derived turbo motor being stuffed under a very long nose with lots of overhang.

    The Renault 21 arrangement was because at the time Renault were not exactly in the best financial state, and didn't have sufficient funds to develop a new transverse 2 litre motor for the new model to replace the then ageing fast 18. It was cheaper to fabricate new body panels rather than develop a new transverse 2 litre motor for the then fairly new F series motor. Given that the Douvrin 2 litre was also used in other models, 25, Espace and commercials would also have influenced the economics too.

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    ade
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Do you not think the Traction Avant (ie: Front wheel drive). Also known as the Light 15, Big 6, Legere, etc ... ie: Traction that was built from the 1930's until the 1950's was mass produced. Citroen were no doubt NOT the first though.

    I'm just trying to think of anything intersting/pioneering that Poogoe has ever done .... And have drawn a complete blank

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    As an objective peugeot owner I not only agree but have realised this myself earlier. It is the Toyota of France, boring but predicable and it has worked for it. In all honesty I would have no interest in Peugeot but for the 504, it is such a great all rounder.

    Although, I do believe it was if not the first one of the first to have a double overhead cam in ~1913. Mercedes-Benz had one about the same time I think. FIAT didn't start mass producing them until the 60's.

    And of course, triumph had a rwd AND fwd even earlier than the japs. Was it the dolomite/1300 combo?

    And seat belts, didn't the Tucker have seat belts in 1947? A production car in all but practice. The americans finally create something interesting and then go and put a bullet in its head. Or commit suicide, a la Corvair. Now if Peugeot put the engine in the rear, there would be some interesting cars........

  19. #19
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    Turbo's (as stated previously) and the Centrifugal Supercharger!
    Not 100% sure, but Renault might have also received the patent for forced induction...

    Also the pneumatic lifters in F1 cars were invented by Renault...

  20. #20
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    I am pretty sure the first production turbocharged car was not a Renault but a GM car(s) in 1962.

    Perhaps people should look up General Motors to see how many important patents they have lodged. Automatic transmission, catalytic converter, etc

    Nils I. Bohlin who worked for Volvo is credited for inventing the modern 3 point seatbelt.

    I have a feeling that the french are even more overzealous at rewritting history in their favour than the yanks

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    Default Nicola tesla V Edison argument!

    This is falling away to the sort of partisan argument you get when the fans of Nicola Tesla and the History as written for Edison as the inventor of everything Electrical conflict.

    Both have their place as did Renault and other makes, History reveals some and conceals others.

    But Renault create great cars loved by their owners even if they do rattle like modern VW's straight off the production line
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 4th October 2005 at 03:13 PM. Reason: minor

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    Not really the same as Tesla/Edison, because it is fairly clear that Renault never did anything with their early seat belt and forced induction patents. Say if there was a thread that showed Renault equipped its production cars with seat belts early on, which influenced the more modern seat belt developments, fair enough, but in this case apart from the early patent of a seat belt concept there is nothing.

    I suppose “Renault invented direct drive” doesn’t have as emotive a ring as “Renault invented the seat belt and the turbo charger”.

    At least with direct drive, it is still the concept that drives all manual transmission cars today.

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    Default Tin tack experts!

    Simon

    You reach a certain stage where semantics enters the conversation, and so called experts will argue the toss for years on exactly who and at what point of history may have "introduced", "concepted", "invented", "Pioneered", "thought of", "Dreamed up", "Theorized" Unfortunately motoring writers over the years have engaged in "X" was first to, think of, invent, place into production certain innovations and it makes for nice copy, ignores all the other "pioneers", and becomes a part of folk lore until exposed by another expert or challenged in a court of law (and even then that might not stop the beast!)

    I have been reading a very nice coffee table book on the RX-7 by Jack Ymaguchi and Edited by John Wakefield, excellent quality and well researched but among the many many inovation claims made I am sure some "experts" will fight for hours on some pedantic point, and solve nothing!!

    The internet just makes it easier for myths and challenged facts, easy for someone to fake material, photoshop, redefine and it then becomes gospel to those who want to prove something to some other.

    Sometimes some authors do have access to better original Factory material, patent applications and design work and are able to correct earlier misconceptions written, that wont stop endless debates if the original misconception is oft quoted from internet references as fact.

    Same with the seat belts issue, obviously someone put it out there, good copy?, something to hang your advertising on?, who knows? and more the issue Who cares! It may be as "correct" as some of the other "facts" in the thread for all we know.

    In another thread we had quotes that it was "fact" that it was dangerous to put tubes in tubeless tyres, in the end it was exposed as nothing more than an urban myth - until proven otherwise

    Now what can we hang our hat on for the rest of the debate

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    1000+ Posts The Gonz's Avatar
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    Icon10 Killer Tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    In another thread we had quotes that it was "fact" that it was dangerous to put tubes in tubeless tyres, in the end it was exposed as nothing more than an urban myth - until proven otherwise
    OH-oh ... I guess I was living on the edge for years and years in the Commodore every time I copped a puncture in those debri-ridden Fitzroy gutters - I was putting a tube in without thinking. God I'm so lucky to be alive!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantra
    I am pretty sure the first production turbocharged car was not a Renault but a GM car(s) in 1962.
    The last thread on Aussiefrogs that revealed this about the Oldsmobile/Chevrolet duo was what...a year ago? I'm not sure if this has the same cachet as 'invented the supercharger'.

    BTW, Marwood, didn't Audi have a production transverse & longitudinal engined car? Around about the Coupe GT/Quattro S1 era? Not sure...

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