Surely you're joking Renault?!?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! billtran's Avatar
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    Surely you're joking Renault?!?

    Renault Vel Satan. This looks like something rejected by Hyundai...

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    <img src="http://renault-tuning.fateback.com/Vel_Satis/5.jpg" alt=" - " />

    <img src="http://renault-tuning.fateback.com/Vel_Satis/7.jpg" alt=" - " />

    <img src="http://renault-tuning.fateback.com/Vel_Satis/6.jpg" alt=" - " />
    You're not paranoid if everyone hates you.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    I think the Vel Satis is great. It is different, and individual, as Renault cars should be!

    Luke
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
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  3. #3
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I also like the Vel satis. I hope Australians buy them like people do in Paris..The 5 speed auto worries me though. Maybe the Renault autos are now refined and working with no issues....

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! billtran's Avatar
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    This looks like something that came out of the Subaru Vortex School of Design. It really belongs to the 80s and should be thrown in the trash can of bad fashion ideas along with big hair, shoulder pads, epaulettes and leg warmers...
    You're not paranoid if everyone hates you.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    I must admit I likened the vehicle to a French Edsel when I saw the first photos on Katriina's site...the loyalists there thought that was unkind. Hyundai...now that definitely is unkind.

    I still think it looks pretty weird...but against a backdrop of some other odd looking Euro vehicles maybe not. I can remember almost being run down by a FIAT people mover that looked something like a cross between a toad and something Herman Munster would drive.

    To work well it doesn't have to be pretty I guess and most of us will not have seen it in the flesh....I can remember people laughing at the 16T I bought it back in 1973 and telling me it was ugly.

    As for the sorting the auto trannie stuff.....Daniel you're dreamin.
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  6. #6
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Hahah, the Multiplia.

    Granted, it's not much better looking than the 7 Series, but it's got humour value at least.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    Hi

    Renault don't do the brand new auto 'boxes anymore - I think you will find that they are similar to the boxes used in Bimmers etc.

    So, no more auto worries.

    The best way to have no auto worries is to buy a manual instead!

    Luke
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
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  8. #8
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Everyone keeps saying that if you dont want auto worries buy a manual.
    Luxury cars like Renaults top of the line Range(laguna,safrane, avantime, velsatis) should not have any gearbox problems at all. I agree with a guy who last year was trying to sell his 25 auto that a car company shouldnt need to ever have the auto gearboxes re-built. It just shouldnt need to happen. Renault should make luxury cars with reliable automatics- THATS IT!!I do love the avantime also, great car...

  9. #9
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I think FIATS are great cars also. The 'multipla' is a fantastic car. Looks great. It has one some award for something. Fiat experts wil know. The Fiat Punto is also a great looking little car cant wait till they come out thru Holden This year or next. The stilo is a fantastic car. It will be popular I hope and sell plenty......

  10. #10
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Hi guys, in defence of Renault auto boxes, yes ok they had had huge problems with 25, 19 laguna etc but everyone else does too. I've replaced more 405/BX autos than 25 or 19 and Pug and Cit use ZF 4HP just like BMW, so I beleive all auto's are crap not just Renault. A local auto repairer keeps telling me that any auto from any manufacture is on borowed time after 100,000km, he's sick to death of explaning to people why there late model Ford is stuffed and there 25 year old XB is still going strong, so my opinion of auto's, buy a manual.

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  11. #11
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Are autos really that bad? We had a 240 that we sold at 190,000km after 8 years and it was still fine.

    Is it because people drive with a lead foot, don't service their car, or what? I've been in a few older autos & they generally seem fine - unlike some taxi Falcons I've been in.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
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  12. #12
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    Daniel, you sure Holden are going to be selling Fiats? I doubt it - they are in direct competition with their own models. Where did you hear this - it's interesting for the local competition...

    Stuey


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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Holden dealers with FIATs.....what is the world coming to..."Fix It Again Tony" will have to become "Fix It Again Trevor"

    ...the FIAT van currently on sale here is quite a useful number...I don't think Holden is importing/selling those...who is???

    Stuey:
    Daniel, you sure Holden are going to be selling Fiats? I doubt it - they are in direct competition with their own models. Where did you hear this - it's interesting for the local competition...

    Stuey
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Paul Smith's Avatar
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    Hi,

    The Fiat Ducato is being imported by our friends at Ateco, trying to upsize in the commercial market after the huge success of the Berlingo. It is also I am told, exactly the same vehicle as the Peugeot Boxer and the Citroen Jumper (who said the Japanese had funny car names?). I gather it is only a matter of half a dozen plastic badges and you have a Cit or a Pug!

    Paul
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  15. #15
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    A guy delivered some stuff to my work in one and showed me over it...it was very impressive. The low loading height at the rear was the reason why the guy bought it. I thought it would make a great camper conversion.

    Paul Smith:
    Hi,

    The Fiat Ducato is being imported by our friends at Ateco, trying to upsize in the commercial market after the huge success of the Berlingo. It is also I am told, exactly the same vehicle as the Peugeot Boxer and the Citroen Jumper (who said the Japanese had funny car names?). I gather it is only a matter of half a dozen plastic badges and you have a Cit or a Pug!

    Paul
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  16. #16
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    When I spoke to a guy in the Fuiat car club of NSW he told me FIATs will be sold thru Holden, AS FIAT has something to do with holden...

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! billtran's Avatar
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    Yep, you're right Danielsydney, Fiat is related to Holden because GM owns a 20% share of Fiat and is now on the verge of buying it. Here is the story from the Economist:

    Fiat's car unit is having a horrid year. The rest of the group has problems too.

    WHEN Fiat wheels out its white-haired patriarch, things must be serious. This week, Gianni Agnelli issued a statement at the same time as the group was announcing an injection of euro1.8 billion ($1.6 billion) into its car division, Fiat Auto, which is owned 80% by Fiat and 20% by General Motors (GM). Mr Agnelli was trying to stop the slide in the company's share price (see chart). The honorary chairman—and head of the family that controls about a third of Fiat shares—said cars would remain a crucial part of the group. So why, you might ask, did Fiat include an option to sell Fiat Auto to GM after 2004 in the alliance contract signed two years ago?

    Insiders admit that this year will be even worse for Fiat Auto than last year, when it made losses of euro549m. Blame collapsing markets in Brazil, Poland and Turkey, where Fiat has big operations. At home, collapsing prices are to blame: Fiat so dominates the Italian market that competitors will happily slash prices just to win a few sales. That is one reason why Fiat's latest white hope, the Stilo saloon, is falling 10% short of its sales targets. Other Fiat models are long in the tooth and losing out to fresher products from rivals. The result is that Fiat's European factories are working at only 75% capacity, when they need to hum at over 80% to make profits.

    The problems at Fiat are not confined to cars, however. In the late 1990s the group made big investments in non-automotive businesses, a strategy that made it more diverse, but also left it with too much debt. Worse, some of the acquired businesses have proved disappointing.

    Basket Case?
    An example is Case New Holland (CNH), a leading maker of agricultural and construction machines. It was created in 1999 when Fiat bought Case, an American company, for $4.6 billion and scrunched it together with its own New Holland business. CNH still accounts for around euro5 billion of Fiat's euro6 billion of net balance-sheet debt. Although CNH has managed respectable cost savings, mostly by cutting its large number of plants, its financial returns have been poor. In retrospect, say analysts, Fiat bought Case expensively at the top of the cycle. Worse, it did the deal in a hurry because it feared that John Deere, a rival, would snatch the prize. As a result, Fiat failed to spot a $1 billion hole in the Latin American part of the business and another big one in the credit subsidiary.

    Worries about Fiat's debts have done almost as much as losses on cars to drive down the share price. Although the declared net-debt figure seems manageable, Fiat's industrial divisions are actually burdened with around euro10 billion of overall debt, much of it short-term and expensive. A disposal programme is not helping much. Last year, for instance, Fiat failed to find a buyer for Magneti Marelli, its struggling car-components business.

    Paolo Fresco, the group's chairman, plans to raise at least euro2 billion from asset sales this year. Added to the proceeds from an already completed euro1 billion rights issue, this should reduce net debt to euro3 billion. Analysts have speculated that everything from military-vehicle production to Teksid, Fiat's foundry business, could go on the block. The group could yet decide to sell Comau, which makes robots for car makers such as Ford and GM, or Iveco, its truck and bus division.

    Whatever the combination of disposals, a little-noticed trend is set to continue: Fiat and the Agnelli family are putting relatively less investment in cars. Despite Mr Agnelli's declarations, the family has been steadily shifting its fortune elsewhere. Fiat's future increasingly lies with businesses providing either more stable returns or better growth than cars can offer.

    Consider two big recent investments. In January 2001 Fiat bought out minority investors in Toro, Italy's third-largest insurer, thus taking it private. Toro has a stake in Banca di Roma and access to the bank's distribution network. Although it failed in a bid to merge with two smaller insurers earlier this year, Toro is profitable, cash-rich and has plenty of potential to grow by itself. Italy is expected to develop a huge market in private pension schemes, with big insurers set to benefit most.

    Fiat has also moved into the utilities market to acquire another cash cow. Working closely with Electricité de France last year, it mounted a stockmarket raid to grab control of Montedison, an energy-to-chemicals conglomerate that owns Italy's biggest private power producer. This business is profitable and its prospects are bright. According to industry forecasts, Italian electricity demand will grow by a third over the next decade or so.

    As Fiat waits for these acquisitions to boost its bottom line, insiders are confident that the car business, which accounts for 41% of total group sales, will pick up as new products arrive and the Stilo stumble is cured through a cheaper version for the cost-conscious Italian market. Fiat Auto's joint ventures with GM, which make engines and buy parts, should soon start to reap economies of scale by, for instance, making 3m GM and Fiat small cars with common underpinnings.

    And if Fiat Auto continues to underperform? Mr Agnelli has indicated that the car maker will be sold only over his dead body. But he is, after all, 81. And if Fiat Auto disappoints as it so often has in the past, the only way out may be to sell the world's seventh-largest car company to GM; and be content to be the biggest shareholder in the world's biggest car maker.
    You're not paranoid if everyone hates you.

  18. #18
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Thankyou Billtran. Told you all so. I knew they would be sold thru Holden. I know its strange. I think Fiats are great cars too though. They are fine. As everyone knows I love the little polish built Niki which is basically 99.9% FIAT. Another is the FIAT Regatta another great car. They built a large Family car which was an auto and I think it was a 130...

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by danielsydney:
    [QB]Thankyou Billtran. Told you all so. I knew they would be sold thru Holden.

    Where does it say that in the article Daniel???
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Do they sell SAABs and Daewoos at Holden Franchises???
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  21. #21
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    Daniel,

    Maybe you should settle down a bit, before you come over all smart arsed. I didn't say there was no link. I read enough industry gumph (my missus says too much) to know about the shareholding by GM, I just wanted to know about where you heard Fiats would be sold at Holden dealers. As I say, I doubt it, but maybe there might be specific Fiat franchised Holden dealers.

    In fact, no one refuted the claim...

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  22. #22
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Daniel,

    All of us would be worried by a 5 speed Renault auto!!!

    If they were a bit less Renault 25 in the rear quarter I'd be happier.

    The history of Renault with larger cars in Australia is not good! Apart from the magical R16 (speaking as an unbiased owner!) they've never done too well. The 20 was perhaps the best all around (saw one today) but I'd be surprised and delighted if they sold many Vel Satis cars.

    I saw the Avantime at the Paris motor show - much more radical.

    JohnW
    JohnW

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  23. #23
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Sorry everyone. This stuff about Fiats being sold thru Holden was just something a guy at ATECO told me and was then confirmed by a guy in the NSW club....Wasnt trying to come across as a "smartie".

  24. #24
    Banned renaulturbo's Avatar
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    Regatta a great car!!!! eek!

    Sounds more like a lawn mower than a passenger vehicle to me...
    Europe's version of a Holden Camira.

    I agree Billtran, Renault, put that ugly thing VelSatis away

  25. #25
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I had a school teacher in high school(which wasnt long ago), that had a Regatta wagon & i remember him saying to me that he never had any issues with it while he had it. He actually had it for many years thru my school years...Maybe Im wrong again...?

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