Scenic - hard starting
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  1. #1
    Member Philip76's Avatar
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    Icon5 Scenic - hard starting

    My wife was having trouble starting our 2002 Scenic. Not all the time, just sometimes, she would turn the key and it would crank for 8 or 9 seconds before she stopped, and this would happen a few times before it would eventually start.

    We swapped keys and now it's happening to me instead.

    In one week this has happened twice. Yesterday it took me at least four tries to start the thing, and I ended up starting it in Neutral instead of Park. I am not convinced that the parking switch is faulty though because the display on the dashboard knows that the car is in Park, so the engine computer surely uses the same sensor for that.

    We've tried with the brakes on, brakes off, seat belt on/off. We have to turn the key back to Off each time before attempting to start again but I think that's normal.

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    Has anyone else had trouble like this? Is it possible that the key is not communicating properly with the computer to disarm the immobiliser? Does the battery in the key play a part in the starting process? I think the battery's OK though because the remote locking still works. I won't ask the dealer about it until the 60,000 km service (soon) because I've already taken it back twice for other things and I don't want to be a pain, especially when this fault could be hard to find (although it could be easy if the computer knows what it is).

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Simon's Avatar
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    There was a problem with a faulty batch of coil packs. Apparently the dodgy ones can be identified by their date code, best to take it back to the dealer for them to check it out.

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Hi,

    if this only occurs only while using one spesific key and the car don't even fire at all when the fault occurs, i would bet on replacing the key or at least give it a reprogramming.
    Tom ---> www.renaultbiler.no
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  4. #4
    Member Philip76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renaultbiler
    Hi,

    if this only occurs only while using one spesific key and the car don't even fire at all when the fault occurs, i would bet on replacing the key or at least give it a reprogramming.
    Should I try the reprogramming procedure that is in the instruction manual for keys that have had their batteries replaced? I thought that if there was a programming problem it would stop the key from opening the central locking too. But I'll give it a go before I ask the dealer to do anything.

  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    Hi,

    the immobilizer is different than the central locking feature, so the reprogramming must be done at the workshop using the Clip or NXR tool
    Therefore the central locking control might work just fine even if the immobilizer recognition is faulty and screws things up when trying to start the car
    Tom ---> www.renaultbiler.no
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    1980 Alpine A-310 - with 2.5 V6 Turbo
    1983 R30TX - 65000 km
    1993 Espace RT 2.2
    1988 Trafic 2.1D 4x4



  6. #6
    Member Philip76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renaultbiler
    Hi,

    the immobilizer is different than the central locking feature, so the reprogramming must be done at the workshop using the Clip or NXR tool
    Therefore the central locking control might work just fine even if the immobilizer recognition is faulty and screws things up when trying to start the car
    Ah, I understand. I'll ring the dealer and tell them about the problem if it happens again. I'll probably just wait until the next service unless it drives me nuts between now and then. It doesn't happen every time. Thanks for your help.

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    thats okay, good luck

    PS: You should newer feel like a pain in the ass - the workshop is there FOR you and your Car, so use them in cases like this - especially during warranty time
    Tom ---> www.renaultbiler.no
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    1980 Alpine A-310 - with 2.5 V6 Turbo
    1983 R30TX - 65000 km
    1993 Espace RT 2.2
    1988 Trafic 2.1D 4x4



  8. #8
    Member Freddie's Avatar
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    My wife had the same problem with her 2003 Scenic - but very intermittently it would not start at all unless ignition was turned off and process repeated - this turned out to be a "ring decoder" mounted at the lock and is the unit that apparently changes the security key codes. was replaced under warranty and no further problem

  9. #9
    Member Philip76's Avatar
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    Thanks all. Sounds like we have the same problem as Freddie, unless the key has forgotten who it is. I'll get the Renault people to look at it (hopefully they'll have a quick way to duplicate the fault or just fix it).

  10. #10
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    Default Check post in October as well

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip76
    Thanks all. Sounds like we have the same problem as Freddie, unless the key has forgotten who it is. I'll get the Renault people to look at it (hopefully they'll have a quick way to duplicate the fault or just fix it).
    Philip Freddie and another posted on intermittent starting faults back in October 2004 - pretty sure it IS the same fault and a few other things there too.

    Ken

  11. #11
    Member Philip76's Avatar
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    Well the problem is now happening nearly every day, but only on the first time the car is started that day (ie only when cold I guess). And with both keys.

    We've booked it in to be fixed on Monday so I hope I can start it that morning to get it there!

    Another odd thing happened yesterday - when I was doing about 100 km/h and had just activated the cruise control (fitted by the dealer before we bought the car, it's an electronic throttle cruise control), a few seconds later the engine seemed to cut out for a second. The tacho fell to zero and then shot back up again as the engine started itself again. It was as though it ran out of spark (ie turned off its ignition) for half a second and then came back to life.

    I don't know if that would be related to the starting problem but I'll ask the dealer. I assume if there's something wrong with one or more coil packs it would still start, but would run rough. But if the computer sometimes isn't sending a spark signal to the coil packs, or perhaps isn't sending pulses to the injectors, I could see that could stop it starting.

  12. #12
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Icon12

    There must be loads of french car repairers that are not Renault dealers that can look at this in Melbourne. Wasnt it auto Paris?

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! R17G's Avatar
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    It could be the TDC (top dead centre) sensor. Worth a check if nothing else works.
    A Gordini is still a GORDINI!!!

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    oh my god - the things you find on this forum.......

    My wife has been having this difficult starting thing with her Scenic as well !!!

    It's only happened a handful of times, and it's never happened with my key - I wonder how easy it would be to duplicate the problem for a sceptical dealer ?

    Cheers

    Justin
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  15. #15
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    Default faulty coil packs

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    There was a problem with a faulty batch of coil packs. Apparently the dodgy ones can be identified by their date code, best to take it back to the dealer for them to check it out.
    Anyone have an idea on what coil pack numbers are on the faulty batch?

  16. #16
    Tadpole
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    Coil packs - K4J and K4M engines + F4P and F4R engines

    - see the attatchement for finding faulty coil pack types
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Tom ---> www.renaultbiler.no
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    1980 Alpine A-310 - with 2.5 V6 Turbo
    1983 R30TX - 65000 km
    1993 Espace RT 2.2
    1988 Trafic 2.1D 4x4



  17. #17
    Member Philip76's Avatar
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    All fixed.

    It was the TDC sensor. The service people at Ringwood said the car told them that when they hooked it up to the diagnostic computer, so they replaced the sensor and all should now be well.

  18. #18
    Tadpole
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    Default scenic starting

    Hi..frenz of mine had a scenic RX4...it was just out of warranty, Renault came to the party when it had the elec coil probs...4 dodgey ones replaced... i think?! Apparently this was a fault in the manufacturing according to a mechanic..he had seen a few with faulty elec coils...can't recall if it was a 2002/3...beautiful to drive...hope they fix your problem whatever it is...I beleive the vehicles should have been recalled to rectify faulty coils.

  19. #19
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    Hi all,
    Our '02 scenic has the same starting issue, but only with one key, I find that if I just remove and return the key is usually starts, Have not been able to make it fault for Renault yet, hence they have not replaced the ring decoder or key etc.

    Cheers

    Case


    2010 Mazda RX8 GT
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  20. #20
    Tadpole Revscene's Avatar
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    Default Slow start

    I have a 2004 Scenic 2.0 and same happened to ours. Rang dealer and was told to bring it in and a control device??? I think the TDC. Was replaced under warranty. This is only hiccup in 20K and is a great car that suits us very well.
    Only problem is the Renault dealer in Toowoomba (a Nissan Dealer and others) stopped selling Renaults'.
    Glad your going again
    Peter

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