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  1. #1
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    Default older renault air conditioning

    has anyone had much experience with the airconditioning systems in the r20's? would it be possible to mount it into a 16ts? the compressor is no problem, i just need to know if the evaporator and condensor would fit into the 16, i will be making a centre console in the 16 to mount it in. p.s. i have a good mate who is an auto air con techie so he can solve any of the issues that arrise on that side of things, but really is it worth it for the r20 air con system or should i find something else a bit newer?

    thanks

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    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3006882
    has anyone had much experience with the airconditioning systems in the r20's? would it be possible to mount it into a 16ts? the compressor is no problem, i just need to know if the evaporator and condensor would fit into the 16, i will be making a centre console in the 16 to mount it in. p.s. i have a good mate who is an auto air con techie so he can solve any of the issues that arrise on that side of things, but really is it worth it for the r20 air con system or should i find something else a bit newer?

    thanks
    I dont think you will have enough space there for the aircon as the firewall pushes right back into the passenger compartment and the units are fairly bulky.

    I have seen 16's with the aircon mounted under the dash on the passenger side in the style of those 1970's aftermarket universal air cons...this takes up a fair bit of room and isn't that attractive.

    If you do it just remember that you could have issues getting an R20 system gassed up without converting it to the new gas. There are still caches of the old stuff around but a lot of people will try and flog you the $300 conversion...which isn't going to work as well in your 1980's system.

    If you are really determined you may have more joy in trying to find a complete system from a smaller more modern Jap vehicle...you may find a more compact unit more easily adapted to the 16's layout, plus you would have no hassle with the gas business.

    Hope this is of some assistance
    Last edited by BogMaster; 29th August 2005 at 11:16 PM.
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    1000+ Posts The Gonz's Avatar
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    Icon13 Fuego on new gas?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogMaster
    There are still caches of the old stuff around but a lot of people will try and flog you the $300 conversion...which isn't going to work as well in your 1980's system.
    I'm also interested in this.
    My Fuego has its original gas system which didn't last long after I bought the car.
    I've driven it around without it being regassed ever since.
    I came across a brass adapter for hooking up the new gas type and wondered how effective it might be without doing anything else to it.
    Even half-strength/efficiency would be worth doing.
    I read about pressurised cans of the stuff you can buy from auto shops.
    Is this true?

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    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gonz
    I'm also interested in this.
    My Fuego has its original gas system which didn't last long after I bought the car.
    I've driven it around without it being regassed ever since.
    I came across a brass adapter for hooking up the new gas type and wondered how effective it might be without doing anything else to it.
    Even half-strength/efficiency would be worth doing.
    I read about pressurised cans of the stuff you can buy from auto shops.
    Is this true?
    If you shop around you will find that some aircon service providers actually have stocks of the old gas and can top up your system. The stuff was manufactured prior to the ban. One of the local aircon service fellas told me that it was still legal to use the old gas as business were entitled to sell what they had on hand at the time of the ban coming into force.

    There are still at least two businesses in the ACT doing the above.

    Last edited by BogMaster; 30th August 2005 at 12:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gonz
    I've driven it around without it being regassed ever since.
    I came across a brass adapter for hooking up the new gas type and wondered how effective it might be without doing anything else to it.
    I'd say that the efficiency will be very poor. If it has been a long time since the system had gas in it, the seals on the compressor are likely to be dry and the gas will just leak from the compressor. Also if the system has moisture in it, the condensor could be pinholed and require replacement. I've heard that the actual A/C rubber hoses require replacing with the new gas. So to reinstate the system with the new gas could get exxy.

    Bogmaster is correct in that the old gas can be re-used with gas evacuated from other systems. Probably initially it may be worthwhile getting the system re-gassed with the old stuff by a pro A/C place who will replace the dryer and can re-gas it including a tracer dye that will highlight any leakages in the system.

    I'm not sure if the pressure cans are still available from shops now, mainly with new supplies of the old gas being illegal.

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    1000+ Posts The Gonz's Avatar
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    Icon13 Thanks

    Thanks, guys.

    Just another penny-pinching half-measure bound to cost me more in the end. I'll do it right if I do it at all

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    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    Gonz...the fuego system can use the new gass without any modifications

    I know this because...my system was regassed with the new gass & had no probs whatso-ever...although the o-rings need replacing each year or so because I forget to run it
    although...i had alot of people tell me it couldn't be done without replacing everything...but I suspect they were just trying to sell me a new system
    when my aircon guy looked at it he said straight away...that he couldn't see any reason why it couldn't run the new gass...& he was right!
    Aus
    Aus
    ".....the good health of a pond is held in a delicate balance. A pond's condition
    deteriorates when the bottom environment cannot support animal life.
    The bottom is the area that runs out of oxygen first, it is where the most oxygen is used........"



    '84 fuego GTX
    '87 fuego GTX
    '85 fuego GTX
    ....beginning to look a bit frightning isn't it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3006882
    has anyone had much experience with the airconditioning systems in the r20's? would it be possible to mount it into a 16ts? the compressor is no problem, i just need to know if the evaporator and condensor would fit into the 16, i will be making a centre console in the 16 to mount it in. p.s. i have a good mate who is an auto air con techie so he can solve any of the issues that arrise on that side of things, but really is it worth it for the r20 air con system or should i find something else a bit newer?

    thanks
    I had AC in a 16TS many years ago, with the outlet sitting in place of the glove box.

    Only real issue is that the compressor is driven from the end of the camshaft, which isn't designed for that. The factory ones had rubber donuts or similar to accomodate the shock as it cut in but I've not seen that with aftermarket ones.

    So good luck with it and take care.

    JohnW

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    The compressor in my Fuego Sh*t itself about 6 years ago and it took my aircon guy a couple of days to find a suitable (new) replacement. He filled it with the new gas and it worked o.k. but Fuego aircon was never that good to start of with! It cost me about $1200 from memory!
    He told me to improve it's cooling power, a more efficient modern aftermarket condensor would be the go, needless to say this is still on my "to do" list!
    As to the original question, I don't think installing an R20 system (which would be similar to a Fuego) into an R16 (if it's possible) is worth the effort, as the end result will be mediocre cooling.
    Bog Masters idea has some merit.
    Last edited by Renomad; 30th August 2005 at 08:58 AM.
    Cheers Renomad

    "Today's mighty oak, is just yesterdays nut that held it's ground"

    Current frogs, Dad's R19 & Dad's Scenic.

    Past frogs, R12 Wagon X2, R12GL, Fuego X2, R10 X2, R8 X.5!


  10. #10
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    I second what renomad said

    the fuego's aircon was only ever adequet...ok if only driver is in the car...swing all vent's towards you & push the fans up..but for the poor backseat passengers on a hot day...
    my compressor was only $500 fitted...but then again...that was about 14 years ago
    I would go for the most modern system possible if starting from scratch

    Aus
    Aus
    ".....the good health of a pond is held in a delicate balance. A pond's condition
    deteriorates when the bottom environment cannot support animal life.
    The bottom is the area that runs out of oxygen first, it is where the most oxygen is used........"



    '84 fuego GTX
    '87 fuego GTX
    '85 fuego GTX
    ....beginning to look a bit frightning isn't it.

  11. #11
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    Default Fuego aircon refill cost about $120

    Quote Originally Posted by Renomad
    The compressor in my Fuego Sh*t itself about 6 years ago and it took my aircon guy a couple of days to find a suitable (new) replacement. He filled it with the new gas and it worked o.k. but Fuego aircon was never that good to start of with! It cost me about $1200 from memory!
    He told me to improve it's cooling power, a more efficient modern aftermarket condensor would be the go, needless to say this is still on my "to do" list!
    As to the original question, I don't think installing an R20 system (which would be similar to a Fuego) into an R16 (if it's possible) is worth the effort, as the end result will be mediocre cooling.
    Bog Masters idea has some merit.
    I usually get all of our cars (Fuegos) regassed just before summer, average cost is about $120 to $130 if all done at the one time about $90 each - heck Di's car cost less than $1200 for the whole car, don't think that I would spend that much just on the aircon!

    My own Fuego is nice and cool, and icy cold immediately after the regassing and from memory I posted last year on the types of aircon gas used in the cars.

    I just found an account for a regass in 2000 for the regas on my sons car and "enviromentally friendly" ER12 gas was used then, the regass was $95 but an O ring replacement cost $30!! have had cheaper regases since then.

    Was going to source a supply of O rings from a supplier, but haven't had time yet!

    Just found the other post from September last year when I had my Fuego gassed.

    Quote Mine was just regassed recently at Mr Radiator(they used SC12a gas) and is nice and cold in operation $121 with GST, but others will do it for about $80 if you shop around (Garry's Car Radio, Bell Street West Heidelberg).Unquote
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 30th August 2005 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Add regas information

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gonz
    Thanks, guys.

    Just another penny-pinching half-measure bound to cost me more in the end. I'll do it right if I do it at all
    Hi, don't be self deprecating. Why should you pay for something above it's value when you can do it yourself?
    Robmac explained the recharge procedure very well. I've followed it and it worked a treat.
    E.g. my daughter's 3cyl '91 Suzuki (amongst others) i charged with HyChill - about $18 per can, usually enough for most cars (basically hydrocarbon mix, and i think straight LPG would work just as well - next time i'll just use LPG) www.hychill.com.au available from Bursons.
    The essential is proper evacuation of the system (i used an old fridge compressor in reverse). The gauges cost about $120.-.
    The result is not a half measure. On a very hot day she opened the window a bit because it got too cold.
    As far as the seals are concerned, the cost very little. Get the green ones and coat them with compressor oil (for your a/c system) prior to installing. also use a fresh receiver dryer. they really don't cost that much. I bought mine at Melbourne Auto Air in Box Hill.
    Let's know how you are doing with your a/c

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts The Gonz's Avatar
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    Icon13 Thanks heaps!

    Gee, the conversation sure has swung to a positive tone
    I'll fault find my dash fan and work out why it isn't going and then I'll be primed for the RobMac procedure. I'll be asking for more detail when the time comes.
    Aussie Frogs rule!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gonz
    Gee, the conversation sure has swung to a positive tone
    I'll fault find my dash fan and work out why it isn't going and then I'll be primed for the RobMac procedure. I'll be asking for more detail when the time comes.
    Aussie Frogs rule!
    Ditto, I need to recharge the aircon in the Fuego when she is running, I had never got around to getting it done. The system in mine is fine, but had the gas lost when the radiator was replaced.

    Great news, LPG huh?
    Powered by high grade French plutonium.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts The Gonz's Avatar
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    Icon13 The LPG derivative the go!

    Last time I looked 134a was really the only option, other than going back to R12, but things are looking up. Is the ER12 the LPG derivative? Anyway. a little more Googling and I'll have it sorted out.

    I've just done a search on RobMac for the aforementioned procedure and came up short. Can anyone point me to it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gonz
    Last time I looked 134a was really the only option, other than going back to R12, but things are looking up. Is the ER12 the LPG derivative? Anyway. a little more Googling and I'll have it sorted out.

    I've just done a search on RobMac for the aforementioned procedure and came up short. Can anyone point me to it?
    Hi, look under robmac and you'll find HR12 gas for A/C asked by JoBo. Quite a bit of info in this. Presumably you studied and have a reasonable understanding of how the system works.
    ER12 is a hydrocarbon gas. So is Hychill.
    Go for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo
    i think straight LPG would work just as well - next time i'll just use LPG
    Surely you jest with this comment? Any tiny holes or leaks in the system and you create an instant time bomb with all the potential sparks zapping around the motor.

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    Saw a DIY can of aircon gas at K_Mart last month,didn't take note of the brand.
    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Australdi
    Gonz...the fuego system can use the new gass without any modifications

    I know this because...my system was regassed with the new gass & had no probs whatso-ever...although the o-rings need replacing each year or so because I forget to run it
    although...i had alot of people tell me it couldn't be done without replacing everything...but I suspect they were just trying to sell me a new system
    when my aircon guy looked at it he said straight away...that he couldn't see any reason why it couldn't run the new gass...& he was right!
    Aus
    The Fuego I have just bought was regassed last summer with the latest legal gas and it is freezing cold.
    My 72 280EMB was converted a couple of years ago and has slight leak but my local aircon man tops it up for around $40-50 at beginning of summer.
    He sells on volume/weight of gas needed.
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    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    Surely you jest with this comment? Any tiny holes or leaks in the system and you create an instant time bomb with all the potential sparks zapping around the motor.
    Not to mention the sparks created around the brushes of the interior fan motor...
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

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    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    Surely you jest with this comment? Any tiny holes or leaks in the system and you create an instant time bomb with all the potential sparks zapping around the motor.

    What's that bit about Fuego meaning Fire?

    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BogMaster
    What's that bit about Fuego meaning Fire?


    Fuego is Spanish for fire-it can also mean live
    1986 Renault Fuego GTX
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  23. #23
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    Default R16 aircon

    Hi,

    I have three 16's fitted with factory and aftermarket aircons. The factory one is the neatest as it uses the area under the radio, not across the passengers side like the aftermarket ones. I am getting used to a digital camera and will post some pics when I learn how to drive it and the software.
    Happy Sixteening ... John E

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts The Gonz's Avatar
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    Icon11 Live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Fuego is Spanish for fire-it can also mean live
    Live?

    Let's see:

    to live is vivir

    a live broadcast is seen en vivo

    a burning fire is fuego

    'ready, aim, fire' is fuego

    a smoker looking for a light wants fuego

    ...but I've never seen it used for live!

  25. #25
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    Default Geez I got ripped off!

    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    The Fuego I have just bought was regassed last summer with the latest legal gas and it is freezing cold.
    My 72 280EMB was converted a couple of years ago and has slight leak but my local aircon man tops it up for around $40-50 at beginning of summer.
    He sells on volume/weight of gas needed.

    Westair - wish I had your guy around here in Melbourne makes me want to cry with the prices we are paying. Thats [email protected]@dy reasonable

    Ken

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