R12 rear springs
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  1. #1
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    R12 rear springs

    Anyone know if any other model's rear springs (that are stiffer) fit the back of the R12 Wagon ?

    Stuey (with a droopy rear end)

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  2. #2
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Stuey, (with the droopy rear end) I bet you walk funny,
    R17 springs will fit but they probably won't do much good, I recon you'd be better off having yours reset, doesn't cost much and should firm up your rear end nicely.
    David.

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  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Stuey,
    I had a customer that i sold some Renault 20 rear springs that he fittted to his R12 and said they were magic. I think they were 1-2 inches higher than standard. Good luck. I do have some more if you can't get them over there.

    Grant

  4. #4
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    Thanks, both options sound good. Grant, are the R20 springs a straight swap? I do carry loads, so the extra height would be good.

    Stuey


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  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    Stuey,

    Yes the R20 springs fit straight in although they are a little harder to fit because of the extra height. good luck.....


    Grant

  6. #6
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    Grant, sorry but one more question, are these springs super stiff on the 12; how thick is the wire compared to the 12 ? I don't want a bone jarring ride, but an inch or so higher plus slightly stiffer would be....magic!

    Stu


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  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Stu,
    no they are not super stiff, I think they are about 1mm thicker. I will check tomorrow if I get a chance.

    Grant

  8. #8
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    Greetings,

    Well I've been down to WA Suspensions with a rear spring in hand, with the instructions to match the ride height with a bit more stiffness. Anyway, they came up with Nissan Pathfinder 95 Wagon rear raising springs from Lovells, about 1 inch lower in free height, but 15mm wire, which my learned friend suggested will maybe raise it 1 inch but significantly stiffer. Just what I wanted for the Wagon to carry concrete blocks, cement etc. $188 a pair. I'm still considering.

    Grant - can you definitely confirm that the R20 springs will fit with no mods? The local Renault wrecker is 50k away...

    Stuey


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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I do know of at least one R12 enthusiast who fitted R12 FRONT springs to the rear of his R12, to improve the handling and rear stiffness of his sedan.

    I have fitted R17 sway bars to the front and rear of my Renault Virage sedan. The improvement in handling, reduced body roll etc is very noticeable. I am also running R18 GTS mag wheels, which are 5 inch diameter compared with 4.5 for the standard R12 steel wheel.

    The R17 front sway bar rubbers can be difficult to source, unless someone knows of an outlet?

    Anybody else tried these modifications?

    Cheers,
    Kim.

  10. #10
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    Kim, yeah, that's the general advice on here regarding the R17 roll bars onto R12 - I've got the 17 front one, and will put the 17 rear on as soon as I get round to getting Dave C to send me one

    I had the advice from Renwreck about the front springs onto the rear, but I looked at the front and figured you'd get spring bind. Mine have got 10 coils closely packed. Are they stiffer? The wire used is very close to 13mm on mine, both ends (despite what my manuals say). Logically I'd assume they are stiffer because the front is much heavier, but I'm pretty sure the more coils for a given wire diameter, the softer the spring. The guy at WA Suspensions confirmed this. Anyone know if this is right? Might try the front to rear conversion, could be the cheapest option.

    Incidentally a guy at Eurocars - WA Renault dealer - (been there since the 12 was current) says that the Aussie 12's had locally made springs of inferior quality to boost local content, hence the droop.

    Sorry about the length (said the bishop to the actress) but at up to $190 a pop I don't want to stuff it up...

    PS. don't the 5" diameter wheels stuff up your gearing a bit?

    Stuey


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  11. #11
    Simon's Avatar
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    Really I wouldn't bother with the 17 front roll bar, just with the 17 rear bar the handling enhanced quite nicely but still tends to understeer in extreme situations. The understeer would only be increased by fitting the stiffer 17 front roll bar.

    Simon
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  12. #12
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    Yeah, Simon, I know, but the extra roll stiffness has other benefits when you've got a wagon full of faux limestone headers...

    Stuey the Builder (he can't fix it)


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  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Stuey,
    Sorry about the conflicting english (Imeant to say width, of course, and not diameter). However, I am sure everyone worked that one out!!

    If you have the late model rear axle assembly, they were actually the forerunner to the R18 rear end, which is a few millimeter wider. Hence, the 5" wide rims on a R12 can run close to rubbing during pivoting movement of the axle during cornering.

    Yes, the front springs will be quite a bit stiffer than the conventional rear spring type. A great spec for competition type work, but maybe too hard for your application.

    Re the R17 sway bars, I found that fitting both front and rear provided the best balance and results, but the slight choppiness on the rougher type roads may not be to everyones liking.

    Cheers,
    Kim.

  14. #14
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    Kim,

    Yeah, actually I've just changed to a different brand of 175's on the Cosmic alloys (5.5" width I think) and I had to roll the guards a bit - and they still rub because the sidewall shape is different. Hence the urgency to get the springs. By the way, the Simex SM 800 175/75 13's (H rated) are excellent - loads of grip, modern tread pattern, very quiet and great ride. And only $77 each.

    Thanks for the info. anyway.

    Stu


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  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi Stuey,
    I did not realise that you also had wider alloy wheels. Even with the 5" alloys that I have fitted, the balance and look of the car is quite pleasing.

    I recently had to replace two tyres, and was informed by the tyre outlet (and one or two others) that 175/75 R13 is no longer available. Only 175/70 R13. That of course makes a small difference to the rolling circumference, and thus the gearing, but lower profile is a minor bonus.

    The difference does not appear to be noticeable, probably because all R12 sedans were originally specified with 155 R13 tyres, whereas the waggon specs were for 165 R13. Both of these sizes are now obsolete, but even for the sedan I have always used the 165 R13 or equivalent (175/75 R13).

    I have slight tyre rub problems on the drivers side rear only, probably due to uneven wear in the axle beam pivot mount rubber.

    Cheers,
    Kim.

  16. #16
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    Hi Kim,

    Yes, that's why I got 175/75's - just to maintain the rolling diameter of the stock (obsolete) 165's. I do a bit of freeway driving... Now I wish I'd stuck with 165's. Funny though, my last tyres were 175's but didn't rub.

    Actually, I found about 4 brands in the 75 section, but most were apparent low quality, and old fashioned looking. The Simex's as I said are a couple of speed ratings above the competition, which usually makes for a more accurate tyre because of an extra belt in the tread, plus they usually have better rubber. Anyway, so far they feel great, however, I can't hammer round corners because of the scraping problem.

    Also, I read that they did well in a test against Pirelli, Yokohama, and other known brands, in a Which Car? test, and killed them when considering value for money. Although made in Malaysia, the factory is a Dunlop factory, and they make some pretty respectable performance tyres too.

    By the way, one side of mine is worse than the other too, but I put that down to inaccuracy in the bodyshell. Hadn't thought about your explanation.

    Cheers

    Stuey


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  17. #17
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    I would figure that a 165/78 (basically 12 wagon OE) would have the equivalent rolling diameter of a 175/70 rather thn the 175/70.

    My 12 with 5.5" rims and 175/70 tyres was measured by the nifty speed checker east of Ballarat in Victoria on the freeway yesterday. At an indicated 110km/h the speed checker showed my speed was 113km/h. Given the age and potential wear on the various speed measuring components in the car, I would say that is not too bad an accuracy.

    As for the tyre wear on the rear tyres, my guess would be that the axle would have to be bent for one tyre to wear oddly, if it was the bushes on one side surely both rear tyres would wear with a feathered edge being obvious, with tracking difficulties also being obvious is the wear is severe.

    Simon

    [quote]Originally posted by Stuey:
    <strong>Hi Kim,

    Yes, that's why I got 175/75's - just to maintain the rolling diameter of the stock (obsolete) 165's. I do a bit of freeway driving... Now I wish I'd stuck with 165's. Funny though, my last tyres were 175's but didn't rub.

    Actually, I found about 4 brands in the 75 section, but most were apparent low quality, and old fashioned looking. The Simex's as I said are a couple of speed ratings above the competition, which usually makes for a more accurate tyre because of an extra belt in the tread, plus they usually have better rubber. Anyway, so far they feel great, however, I can't hammer round corners because of the scraping problem.

    Also, I read that they did well in a test against Pirelli, Yokohama, and other known brands, in a Which Car? test, and killed them when considering value for money. Although made in Malaysia, the factory is a Dunlop factory, and they make some pretty respectable performance tyres too.

    By the way, one side of mine is worse than the other too, but I put that down to inaccuracy in the bodyshell. Hadn't thought about your explanation.

    Cheers

    Stuey</strong><hr></blockquote>
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  18. #18
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Simon, You were in Melbourne yesterday and you didn't call in to say hello, shame shame shame, theres always a cup of coffee going.
    David.
    David Cavanagh

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  19. #19
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    Simon,

    Yep, I agree. I remember now (I put my first set of 175's on 5 years ago) that I erred on the side of larger to increase the gearing. Could be why my speedo shows slow! Duh!

    What we meant by the tyres scraping was on the inside of the rear mudguards. In fact, my 12 has the best wear on its tyres of any car I've seen - they wear dead flat across the whole tyre until they're like slicks. I run about 33 psi front, 31 rear, cold.

    Stuey


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  20. #20
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    David,

    Didn't call in as I'm sure you get disturbed enough by other people coming in for a chat while you are under the bonnet of a car!


    Stuey,

    The wider 18 rear axle was only fitted on the very last of the Virages, so unless your car has been retro fitted with one it is likely to have the "normal" 12 rear axle. 5" Dunlop rims really give the rear inner wings a hard time on the later cars!

    Simon
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  21. #21
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    Simon,

    It wasn't me who suggested that - I didn't even know that there was a wider axle version ! All I know is that I've had to get the panel hammer out and roll the inner lip, and it still scrapes...

    By the way, why? Was it just economy of scale because they had to make a wider one for the 18 anyway?

    Stu


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