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  1. #651
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Wow, that is blown alright!! Out of interest, how far proud of the block face are the sleeves? Always an interesting question, for me at least. Sump debris is fantastic! Bad luck.

    I've had two attempts at a heat shield for the alternator on my Citroen CX and both have failed completely due to cracking under vibration and disappeared completely. The mount for my cruise control receiver near the magnet on a driveshaft failed the same way. Tricky and shows I'm a geologist not an engineer!! I'm thinking I should make them lighter not heavier or very much heavier!

    Cheers

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  2. #652
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    So before all this happened and I was bored stiff I started playing with an oil pump. I came up with a plan to make a high volume pump easily as you should know by now that it is hard for me to buy something that I can make. The dental floss budget you know.

    I came up with this prototype. Sacrifice one free wheel gear and cut it in two. I increased the one by 10mm and the other by 12 mm to get an idea. I will use an aluminium spacer plate of 10 mm or 12 mm as you can get that in a standard thickness and then the pickup will bolt onto the bottom. Then a plan will be made to shorten the pickup or I can use a different one because those pickups came in a few lengths as the sump depth varied over the years.



    The above photo shows the 10 mm addition which is connected by recessed screws.



    The above photo shows the other free wheel gear that will go in back to front so that the connection screws does not actually do a lot but that the gears actually drive themselves.



    The above photo shows the protrusion, one of 10 mm and the other of 12 mm and that is where the spacer will be.



    The above photo shows the recessed screws holding them intact.

    So that was my mouth full of what happened here lately and answering Henry's question of "how did it go?"

    Regards, Frans
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  3. #653
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    I know its not nice to think about but when you had the sump off did you see anything unusual with the bearings? the oil temp still seems high after you fixed the windage tray issues, it could be more than just the cooler location.

  4. #654
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    JohnW The sleeve protrusion is .004" plus the little ridge that I cut in another .004".

    Bustamif.... checked big ends and mains and they where all okay. The cooler location is on top of the gearbox crossmember where I am sure it is useless for getting any airflow. All it does now is increase oil volume. Me and Ross had alook when it was on his hoist and there is a way of fabricating a type of funnel to scoop air and sort off compress it and the feed it to the cooler. One will have to be careful not to make the scoop too low as it might get damaged with an off.

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  5. #655
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Thanks Frans. Interesting. I've just bolted a Dauphine Gordini head down (annealed copper base rings of course) and had them all 6-8 thou before tightening. I reckon that will leave 2-4 thou protrusion after the copper rings squeeze the 4 thou I've measured. Geckoeng reckons 8 thou, which is therefore, after squish, the same as your 4 thou. Am I paranoid about this? Probably!

    That's quite a head gasket of yours....
    JohnW

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  6. #656
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Some useless info for those interested.

    I made a list of mods or specs that I have done on the race car. Started in the front and worked the way to the back from what I can remember but the list will be about 99% complete.





    Frans.
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  7. #657
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Hi Frans,

    Quite a list!

    That'd be HDPE tube not PVC I think. "Black poly" is it not? PVC has a low softening temperature.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  8. #658
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    Frans,

    You left out that super effective exhaust system. Are the suspension coils not shortened?
    What front anti roll bar are you using?
    I know your list is just the obvious basics, because I know there are many more detailed mods involved, some are: window glass-to- perspex lightening
    plus other body lightening, negative camber inducing off-centre bushes, shorter rear axle limit straps(chains), etc, etc. I think it will take a long time to recall / record all the not so obvious mods, some of which have taken considerable thought and effort to apply. And I think it's great!

    Henry
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  9. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubyalpine View Post
    Frans,

    You left out that super effective exhaust system. Are the suspension coils not shortened?
    What front anti roll bar are you using?
    I know your list is just the obvious basics, because I know there are many more detailed mods involved, some are: window glass-to- perspex lightening
    plus other body lightening, negative camber inducing off-centre bushes, shorter rear axle limit straps(chains), etc, etc. I think it will take a long time to recall / record all the not so obvious mods, some of which have taken considerable thought and effort to apply. And I think it's great!

    Henry

    Yes...the devil is in the detail!

  10. #660
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    Frans,
    Have you considered using the later type oil pumps fitted to R5s? Jeff Bee used one in his big-bore R1135 motor to good effect.

    Is your current oil pump a Gordini pump which has the longer gear set over a standard R8?

    If not, these 2 off the shelf items may help you, and be whole lot less work than what you are considering. (I know, you like doing it yourself at the lowest possible cost)
    www.r8gordiniregister.com
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  11. #661
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi Alpinesau,

    I wasn't aware of the R5 pumps. Do they have higher volume pumps fitted as standard?

    My current pump is standard R8 pump ie. the short gears and yes I am aware of the G pumps higher volume.The G pump gears are 6mm longer and my idea was to exceed this and do the 10mm or 12mm so that it will have plenty volume in hand and as an experiment as well.

    Henry, You are correct in all those points and to be honest, I haven't even thought of it. Yes the list will be much longer although the anti-roll bar is standard

    Regards, Frans.
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  12. #662
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    Looks like the R5 Alpine & R5A Turbo have a similar set-up to the R8, but are bigger. (Refer the details on the Meca-Parts catalogue.) There are 2 or 3 options.
    Ignore the photo which is from an R16 engine.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Two new racecars in NZ-oil-pump-gears.jpg  
    Last edited by alpinesau; 11th October 2018 at 07:56 PM.
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    If there is differences in oil pump capacity among the cleon powered R5 models I would think the R5 gt turbo(120bhp) would be the one to check out.

  14. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Hi Alpinesau,

    I wasn't aware of the R5 pumps. Do they have higher volume pumps fitted as standard?

    My current pump is standard R8 pump ie. the short gears and yes I am aware of the G pumps higher volume.The G pump gears are 6mm longer and my idea was to exceed this and do the 10mm or 12mm so that it will have plenty volume in hand and as an experiment as well.

    Henry, You are correct in all those points and to be honest, I haven't even thought of it. Yes the list will be much longer although the anti-roll bar is standard

    Regards, Frans.
    Ray.....
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  15. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by nauli View Post
    Ray.....

    For your engine Nauli?
    I just had a look at your pump this morning. it's the smaller one if i'm not mistaken
    ďListen very carefully, I shall say this only once.Ē Cheers. John

  16. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoji View Post
    For your engine Nauli?
    I just had a look at your pump this morning. it's the smaller one if i'm not mistaken
    Not sure John...I leave it up to the Geckomeister!
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  17. #667
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    Went racing yesterday!!

    We raced at the Pukekohe track which should be known to most of you petrol heads. This track had a small change a few years ago. Because of the very long straight, a kink was introduced in the straight to slow cars down. The other times I raced here we raced on the layout that included the kink, but yesterday we raced on the old layout using the long straight. This allowed me to use max top end with my car. With my new settings on the MegaJolt I managed to get the shift lights to come on in top gear down that long straight.

    So, I calculated my top speed and it is hard to believe. If it is correct, I am very chuffed. Please check my calcs and say where I went wrong, if I did.

    Rear tyre size: Toyo R888 185/65x13
    I used 1:1 ratio for top gear.
    Diff ratio of 16TS= 3.77:1
    Engine rpm =7200.

    My circumference worked out to 1793mm, and according to Google calculator at my engine rpm of 7200 it topped out at 205 kmh.

    Regards, Frans.
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  18. #668
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Fantastic!
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  19. #669
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    Frans, I haven't checked the calculations but I'd believe it of you and the car!

    Best wishes to you and yours for 2019.
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    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
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  20. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Hi All,

    Went racing yesterday!!

    We raced at the Pukekohe track which should be known to most of you petrol heads. This track had a small change a few years ago. Because of the very long straight, a kink was introduced in the straight to slow cars down. The other times I raced here we raced on the layout that included the kink, but yesterday we raced on the old layout using the long straight. This allowed me to use max top end with my car. With my new settings on the MegaJolt I managed to get the shift lights to come on in top gear down that long straight.

    So, I calculated my top speed and it is hard to believe. If it is correct, I am very chuffed. Please check my calcs and say where I went wrong, if I did.

    Rear tyre size: Toyo R888 185/65x13
    I used 1:1 ratio for top gear.
    Diff ratio of 16TS= 3.77:1
    Engine rpm =7200.

    My circumference worked out to 1793mm, and according to Google calculator at my engine rpm of 7200 it topped out at 205 kmh.

    Regards, Frans.

    In in a previous post I noted that I did a top speed of 142kmh down the main straight of Sandown, but rev limited at 5000 ( was running in my engine). I am running also a R16 strong box.

    According, if I could run at 7200rpm, then my theoretical top speed would be using linear extrapolation: 142/5000 X 7200 = 204.48kmh!

    So I believe you are on the money Frans!

    Angelo
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  21. #671
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Why not get a GPS and take out the vagaries of the input data?

    Short of that, I would measure the actual circumference of the wheel (mark wheel and road, roll one full turn with the car, mark road, measure) because I suspect that is the most uncertain of all.

    Either way, even approaching 200km/h in a R8 is a performance in itself.

    I have seen 200km/h in a few cars and it's not always comfortable. I remember well 150km/h in my dad's R12 and that was pretty focusing to put it that way.
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  22. #672
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Why not get a GPS and take out the vagaries of the input data?

    Short of that, I would measure the actual circumference of the wheel (mark wheel and road, roll one full turn with the car, mark road, measure) because I suspect that is the most uncertain of all.

    Either way, even approaching 200km/h in a R8 is a performance in itself.

    I have seen 200km/h in a few cars and it's not always comfortable. I remember well 150km/h in my dad's R12 and that was pretty focusing to put it that way.
    Agree that a GPS can do it. I'll have to re-program the Megajolt so that I have an output LED come on at 4000 rpm, check the speed on the motorway and then calculate from there what 7200 will give me because I don't know whenever we will run on that track configuration again to it actually achieve that speed. The wheel circumference was done exactly as you suggested. That is where I got my 1793mm from. I am positive about the 7200 because I don't think the MegaJolt will be out at all. It is not like a rev counter that could read a little high or a little low.

    In the one heat I easily outran a V6 Ford Telstar. That is with the 2500 V6 engine. TX5? But I think it was a standard engine with only a lightened body. I must admit that it was the first car that outbraked me. I went to talk to the owner afterwards and noted that he had massive Wilwoods on there and he said that they are setting the car up for endurance racing.

    That speed was sort of uncomfortable but I weren't allowed to go slower, we were racing.

    In this configuration it becomes a big horsepower track. I noticed it because in my Youtube videos you can see me overtake an orange TVR powered by the 3000cc Ford Essex V6 regularly. On Monday it stayed ahead and I couldn't overtake it.

    I will still see how the incar cam videos came out and post it here.

    Thanks Angelo, Now I AM chuffed with the blue beast!!

    Regards, Frans.
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  23. #673
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    Man!l would LOVE to drive your beastie on track.

  24. #674
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Agree that a GPS can do it. I'll have to re-program the Megajolt so that I have an output LED come on at 4000 rpm, check the speed on the motorway and then calculate from there what 7200 will give me because I don't know whenever we will run on that track configuration again to it actually achieve that speed. The wheel circumference was done exactly as you suggested. That is where I got my 1793mm from. I am positive about the 7200 because I don't think the MegaJolt will be out at all. It is not like a rev counter that could read a little high or a little low.

    In the one heat I easily outran a V6 Ford Telstar. That is with the 2500 V6 engine. TX5? But I think it was a standard engine with only a lightened body. I must admit that it was the first car that outbraked me. I went to talk to the owner afterwards and noted that he had massive Wilwoods on there and he said that they are setting the car up for endurance racing.

    That speed was sort of uncomfortable but I weren't allowed to go slower, we were racing.

    In this configuration it becomes a big horsepower track. I noticed it because in my Youtube videos you can see me overtake an orange TVR powered by the 3000cc Ford Essex V6 regularly. On Monday it stayed ahead and I couldn't overtake it.

    I will still see how the incar cam videos came out and post it here.

    Thanks Angelo, Now I AM chuffed with the blue beast!!

    Regards, Frans.
    I don't think you are out or if you are not by much. Would be interesting to have it recorded on telemetry/GPS just for giggles.

    And posterity!
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  25. #675
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    Absolutely brilliant! As an engineer and driver.

    Please expand on " slightly uncomfortable" driving it at over 200 kph. I have had my Alpine kitted R8G rally car flat stick on the Nullarbor. But not that quick. Just how floaty was it ?
    Cheers Keith

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