New Megane cruise control errors
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Icon9 New Megane cruise control errors

    My new megane has a speed limiter and cruise control, and indicates the selected speed on the dash. The speed limiter is very useful, but will not work at 80kmh. Neither will the cruise control. Every other speed is OK in 2kmh jumps.
    So in an 80kmh zone I have to set it at either 78 or 82. At 78 other motorists drive around you, at 82 you risk a ticket in Victoria, especially seeing there is some natural variation in the actual road speed delivered (normal).
    Very occasionally it will correctly select 80, but this is very rare - maybe three or four times in 5000km.
    The dealer has said it is common in this model, and is not prepared to fix it - go to Renault he said - but prewarned me they would not do anything.

    Reanult are very hard to contact. Would not return calls or reply to a written request to fix it. Eventually I did get them, and they said "france said not to repalce anything, the electricals are unreliable and inaccurate'. End of story.
    It might be a minor fault, but it is annoying, it is a fault, it is a brand new car.

    Has anyone else experienced this error in the cruise/limiter? Is it common to all of them as the dealer says?
    How can Renault just dismiss it as 'unreliable electrics'? I didn't want to buy something known to be unreliable.

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    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven_R
    My new megane has a speed limiter and cruise control, and indicates the selected speed on the dash. The speed limiter is very useful, but will not work at 80kmh. Neither will the cruise control. Every other speed is OK in 2kmh jumps.
    So in an 80kmh zone I have to set it at either 78 or 82. At 78 other motorists drive around you, at 82 you risk a ticket in Victoria, especially seeing there is some natural variation in the actual road speed delivered (normal).
    Very occasionally it will correctly select 80, but this is very rare - maybe three or four times in 5000km.
    The dealer has said it is common in this model, and is not prepared to fix it - go to Renault he said - but prewarned me they would not do anything.

    Reanult are very hard to contact. Would not return calls or reply to a written request to fix it. Eventually I did get them, and they said "france said not to repalce anything, the electricals are unreliable and inaccurate'. End of story.
    It might be a minor fault, but it is annoying, it is a fault, it is a brand new car.

    Has anyone else experienced this error in the cruise/limiter? Is it common to all of them as the dealer says?
    How can Renault just dismiss it as 'unreliable electrics'? I didn't want to buy something known to be unreliable.

    my speed limiter sometimes goes in 4kph bits but not the cruise. I haven't really used it at 80kp but I'll give it a go tonight. DOn't even begine with renault aust , not helpful is an understatement
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  3. #3
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    Default Write to Bracks Government

    Seven_R

    One problem that we have in Australia is the Australian Design rules that allow a 10 percent variation plus or minus for automotive speedometers, and Renault would be aware of this and as long as the equipment is within that range would have no obligation in law to fix it.

    That problem is further complicated by the Bracks Government who bought in their nil tolerance (later modified to?? 3 percent?? or is it??) refused to acknowledge that motorists in relying on their speedometers etc could stray over the limit, especially when driving in unfamiliar surroundings (it is hard to keep your eyes on the road and speedometer, let alone factor in a ten percent innacuracy plus or minus!!)

    Some years ago now the North Eastern Metropolitan Roadsafe committee wrote to the Bracks Government as they introduced the nil speed tolerance campaign and asked (quite reasonably IMHO) that the government also provide a number of accurate overhead speed indicators to enable the motoring public to freely check the accuracy of their speedometers over the range of speed limits.

    The Bracks Government flatly refused to either provide the equipment we requested or to do anything to help motorists overcome this problem. The few overhead speed check indicators that had been provided by previous governments on the highways however were labelled "ADVISORY ONLY" when proven to vary by as much as 5kph but lately have been OUT OF ACTION for months and months.

    Overtures have been made to this goverment on behalf of motorists to have suitable existing Static camera locations display speeds as detected by the speed camera measuring equipment, after all if they ARE as accurate as the Government would have us believe, why would you not publically display those speeds at say one in five camera locations?

    Had the faulty speed cameras had this viewable display, the outcry from motorists observing the rediculous speeds recorded would have been loud enough to avoid the debacle and loss of public confidence that followed on from that long drawn out filibustering to cover loss of revenue.

    Write to Steve Bracks and insist that instead of spending mountains of cash spin doctoring via TV and brochures in Government publications, that they actually DO something NOW to help motorists accurately check this type of equipment rather than just reefing money out of their pockets.

    I don't have a lot of confidence that they will actually do more than PROMISE to do something either just before the next election or more likely After the next election, but there has never been a better time.

    Knowing our Steve and his reputation for doing very little over the past few years it is more likely that his government would opt to shift the burden to motorists selling these cars so that as part of the roadworthiness check the accuracy of speedometers be tested to certify plus or minus readings over speed ranges, which would be in line with cost neutral options adopted i.e no posted sign means its likely to be a 50kph limit.

    I personally would like to see accurate speed indication sites, as then anytime that new tyres/wheels are fitted, variations in speedometer readings can be established so that one can adjust their driving accordingly. this is in line with thinking and caring motorists driving with consideration and courtesy to other road users. Something we would all love to see!.

    Yes write in and see what sort of reply you get, publish it here for all to see.

    Ken

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    At 78 other motorists drive around you, at 82 you risk a ticket in Victoria,
    What new car available today has an underreading speedo? AFAIK they are all optimistic. Actual speed is lower that the speedo reading

    82km/h is perfectly fine in an 80km/h zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven_R
    So in an 80kmh zone I have to set it at either 78 or 82. At 78 other motorists drive around you, at 82 you risk a ticket in Victoria, especially seeing there is some natural variation in the actual road speed delivered (normal).
    After a few years of using cruise control, I can tell you that even if you get it set at 80km/h, you are still going to be passed by some drivers and baulked by others. Cruise control is a nice thing, but without forward seeking radar help match cruising speeds you always end up in a position of having to alter your speed one way or the other.

    Hope you can get your problem fixed though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastpugdriver
    What new car available today has an underreading speedo? AFAIK they are all optimistic. Actual speed is lower that the speedo reading 82km/h is perfectly fine in an 80km/h zone.
    Except I'm yet to drive a car with Cruise that doesn't creep up (to say even 85) when it goes downhill for instance, before the car slows itself. Some don't slow at all, the 407 just kept running away - wouldn't hold, where as I did 1000kms on the long weekend in a Subaru Forrester and it did hold it's speed downhill. The total variation was about 10kph (i.e. 75 to 85) when set at 80, when I was going up and down hills.

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  7. #7
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    Sorry Ken... but I disagree.
    Whenever I see a diatribe on "unfair" speed limits I think about the dramatic fall in road deaths some years ago that they bought-about.
    Bravo to Renault for introducing speed limiters and cruise-control (realistically 2KM is not going to score you a ticket)

  8. #8
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    Our work Camry station wagon has cruise (it holds the set speed well) and a speed alert that goes 'off' when the set limit is exceeded.

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    Eventually I did get them, and they said "france said not to repalce anything, the electricals are unreliable and inaccurate'. End of story.
    It might be a minor fault, but it is annoying, it is a fault, it is a brand new car.

    Has anyone else experienced this error in the cruise/limiter? Is it common to all of them as the dealer says?
    How can Renault just dismiss it as 'unreliable electrics'? I didn't want to buy something known to be unreliable.<!-- / message -->

    I find this an extraordinary story indeed. Imagine being told that. I would not muck about with these clowns and take it further up the chain if its a real worry for you.
    I just cant believe that tyhey said the car was unrliable. I bet all those punters parting with there 45K would notn like to be told that. HOW OUTRAGEOUS...THATS INSANE!!!!

  10. #10
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    Default Facts please not spin!

    Crash
    Without getting into ahot debate, and I have viewed most crash stats and other information on vehicular collisions and when analysed they fail to reveal your attributable facts!

    Serious injury accidents are a much better indicator of trends when properly analysed. Road deaths can be emotive particularly when linked with speed as many deaths on our roads have nothing to do with "speeding per se", introduction of compulsory seat belt wearing, increasing use of air bags in cars, are a factor in reducing injury and death when detailed analysis is carried out.

    Sadly a number of deaths each year are caused when cars reverse over kids and pedestrians, but some spuriously use these death stats to pad out the speed kills spin retoric for consumption by a non questioning public.

    I have seen motorists die as a result of a ten kilometre an hour crash due to head injuries and others survive total demolition of their vehicles but in the mish mash of stats the facts are lost.

    I would always like to know when I buy a car if the speedo is accurate. I know from my own checking that the speedo reading on my latest car is conservative, it would be nice to confirm this by an official and freely available testing site! as things do change as a car ages.....

    Regards
    Ken


    Quote Originally Posted by crash
    Sorry Ken... but I disagree.
    Whenever I see a diatribe on "unfair" speed limits I think about the dramatic fall in road deaths some years ago that they bought-about.
    Bravo to Renault for introducing speed limiters and cruise-control (realistically 2KM is not going to score you a ticket)

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    Quote Originally Posted by crash
    Sorry Ken... but I disagree.
    Whenever I see a diatribe on "unfair" speed limits I think about the dramatic fall in road deaths some years ago that they bought-about.
    Bravo to Renault for introducing speed limiters and cruise-control (realistically 2KM is not going to score you a ticket)
    Don't see it as a diatribe at all. Frustrated (like many of us) perhaps.
    It is a simplistic conclusion that not honouring the 10% leeway in speedo error (as in design rules) reduced the fatality rate on Vic. roads.
    Go to www.abc.net.au/melbourne or local to melbourne and listen to Stephen Mayne about the state budget and how the milk driver with their draconian system. It may take a few days to be posted as it was only on today.
    I may have missed the point, but i thought Ken was only asking for a system that lets us veryfy the accuracy of our speedos and honour the 10%.

    Don't get me wrong, i'm not for reckless speeding. On the other hand don't make us all into fuddy duddy drivers (i'm 55 by the way). It's got nothing to do with road safety (being fuddy duddy drivers)

  12. #12
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    Default setting renault cruise control

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven_R
    My new megane has a speed limiter and cruise control, and indicates the selected speed on the dash. The speed limiter is very useful, but will not work at 80kmh. Neither will the cruise control. Every other speed is OK in 2kmh jumps.
    So in an 80kmh zone I have to set it at either 78 or 82. At 78 other motorists drive around you, at 82 you risk a ticket in Victoria, especially seeing there is some natural variation in the actual road speed delivered (normal).
    Very occasionally it will correctly select 80, but this is very rare - maybe three or four times in 5000km..
    I just spoke to my daughter about this (she sells the vehicles) and she wondered if you had been ever shown how to properly set the cruise control, as when you have it in the set mode at 82 kph you use the plus or minus key on the set button to reset the speed in 2 kilometre increments, i.e. you push the minus key and it will reset to 2 kilometres lower or 80kph.

    If you were able then to check the actual speed of the vehicle you will find that it is likely to be a percentage below the indicated speed, which is a safety factor to ensure you aren't booked in this state. Further as you go downhill the 80 will flash until either the vehicle slows or you brake and reset.

    While the transmission will usually slow to the set speed, some decents do cause an increase in speed over the set speed and the flashing set speed alerts you to this.

    In Victoria speed camera site criteria dictates that speed cameras should not be sited in downhill areas that cause the vehicles speed to increase without use of the accellarator, so you should be confident that you will not be booked in those downhill situations.

    Of course a revenue hungry regime could change/alter that criteria, but they have said yesterday that they will openly publish both the criteria and the reasoning that goes into site selection (Crash stats, speeding complaints etc). I await this open publication (date not set yet!!).

    The so called "turtles" that were used to check the accuracy of the ring road speed cameras, are being re-deployed to provide pre site selection speeding evidence to justify future camera site locations.

    Back to the Renault cruise control, on the Laguna I find that once you are familiar with the set routine, you can very accurately pick the moment that the engine/transmission speed reaches the posted limit and press the button on the steering wheel to set it at the numerical of the speed limit and be confident that you are actually just slightly under the posted limit with Renaults conservative electronic digital setting.

    If your speedo is like mine, set at 80 kph the needle will be a shade under the speed on the speedo and set at 82 kph the needle will be just a shade over, and all within the 3 percent plus of the speed camera tolerance.

    I just wish that there were accurate sites provided to REGULARLY confirm that this variation is a constant factor. With any electronic device (even speed cameras ) there is that chance of them going haywire!!

    While an experienced driver uses aquired speed/motion sense and engine transmission speed/noise to know his speed without looking at the speedo, there are drivers out there who have no ability/sense of speeds and depend solely upon the accuracy of these instruments. (sad but true!!)

    Hope this helps you find a solution that suits you.


    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    I just spoke to my daughter about this (she sells the vehicles) and she wondered if you had been ever shown how to properly set the cruise control, as when you have it in the set mode at 82 kph you use the plus or minus key on the set button to reset the speed in 2 kilometre increments, i.e. you push the minus key and it will reset to 2 kilometres lower or 80kph.
    But the setting procedure sounds so complex. So there is a two stage setting procedure a rough setting then a fine tune to get it spot on or am I missing something?? Surely you should be able to overal adjust in 1km/h increments? If you want 80km/h you want 80, not 78 or 82, then have to fine tune it or am I missing something.......

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    Default Keep Trying.

    Seven_R,
    Ignoring all the above irrelevant barrow-pushing about Victorian speed limits, the problem is that you have a new car with a cruise-control that has a fault. The car is still on warranty - is this correct?

    Your responses from Renault (the Dealer or Renault Australia?) seem incredible (and I have been a dealer service manager in a past life).

    My advice is to write a letter detailing the problem and your efforts to get it fixed (including the responses you have been given) to Renault Australia (not the dealer) and send a copy to the Ministry of Fair Trading (or whatever it is called in your state).

    Keep any replies, and continue to communicate only in writing until you get satisfaction. Yes, they will direct you back to the dealer to get it fixed, but keep persevering.

    Good Luck
    Fordman.

    PS: The above post about correct method of setting is relevant - make sure you are following the recommended procedure, but you shouldnt have to fiddle with it to cover a basic fault.
    Last edited by Fordman; 4th May 2005 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Add PS.

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    Seven R, I have a Clio 182 which has cruise control software probably pretty similar to your Megane. I have noticed the same thing occasionally; one of the normal 2km/hr increments will not set with the plus or minus buttons. In my case it was the 112 setting, i.e I could get 110 or 114 but not 112. The problem happens occasionally but not consistently. Stopping the car and restarting later has fixed it both times it's occurred. Sounds like yours is a bit more persistent. (BTW, I certainly don't have a 1km/hr adjustment, although it would be nice).

    In your case, it might be worth disconnecting the battery and leaving overnight to reset all the microprocessors and allow any volatile memory to hopefully clear. Worth checking with the dealer to find if there are any other side-effects (obviously you will need the radio code to reset it, not sure if the fuel computer values are stored in volatile memory or not.)

    As far as the accuracy of the speedo goes, I've found in the Clio that the cruise control speed is accurate to within one km/hr of actual speed, checked with an aviation standard handheld GPS. My speedo reads 112-113 at 110 true. I suppose this is because there is a plus zero tolerance on the speedo, so they have to calibrate it so it reads higher than true (to be on the safe side), but no such restriction applies to the cruise control, which can be as accurate as possible.
    Last edited by scirocco; 4th May 2005 at 01:11 AM.

  16. #16
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    Default Not complicated easy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    But the setting procedure sounds so complex. So there is a two stage setting procedure a rough setting then a fine tune to get it spot on or am I missing something?? Surely you should be able to overal adjust in 1km/h increments? If you want 80km/h you want 80, not 78 or 82, then have to fine tune it or am I missing something.......

    Simon - Actually it is easy and far from complicated and similar to most cruise controls with the 2km incremetal adjustment, and Fordman if the machinery is operating within the Australian design rules, how can you ask for it to be fixed? etc etc?

    If you look at the Monash Uni studies of speedometers, most vehicles in Australia have speedometers that are not "accurate" but the majority read higher than the real speed i.e. reading conservative like the Renault speedos.

    I have also come accross Factory to new owner fords and Holdens that have errors up to 10 kph when tested against a radar. and they just get recalibrated to their best average range.

    Ah well you can never satisfy all.

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    Of course a revenue hungry regime could change/alter that criteria.
    How else is Bracks going to pay for all this .... ?

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...092498410.html

    Partially with voluntary tax .. that's how . Seems like "kick a Vic" is not just a national past time anymore.

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    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Even with the problem, it still seems more accurate than the old fashioned way of staring at the speedo needle and stabbing the "set" button when it's at the right spot ;-)
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    Except I'm yet to drive a car with Cruise that doesn't creep up (to say even 85) when it goes downhill for instance, before the car slows itself.
    Cruise Controls in general can't slow the car down... All they have control over is the throttle. So, any condition where the car would run away when you were controlling the throttle the same thing would happen using cruise control

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    Just getting back on track for a moment, SevenR I tested mine last night and despite everything, could not get it set at 80.... could have any other even number but not 80....
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastpugdriver
    Cruise Controls in general can't slow the car down... All they have control over is the throttle. So, any condition where the car would run away when you were controlling the throttle the same thing would happen using cruise control
    Isn't cruise control linked into the ABS so that active slowing by the cruise control can occur when going downhill? Anyone know?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu17
    Isn't cruise control linked into the ABS so that active slowing by the cruise control can occur when going downhill? Anyone know?
    I'm sure there is more integration on the newer cars, but certainly on the older cruise control systems, it was purely a throttle manipulator device with no braking or auto-gear change functionality whatsoever.

    ie. on my 87 R25, the actuator is a small vacuum bellows which pulls the throttle spindle accordingly. Down a steep hill, it will release the throttle fully (just like taking your foot off the pedal) but the speed can certainly increase past the set speed. The car is an auto, with ABS, but neither of these systems are integrated whatsoever.
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    I can confirm that my 2004 Clio RSC cruise control does not apply any braking, only reducing the throttle. On a steep enough hill, depending on what gear you're in (and thus how much engine braking is going on) the speed will increase exactly as if you had just taken your foot off the accelerator.

    Can't speak for other models...

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    Quote Originally Posted by scirocco
    Can't speak for other models...
    I'm taking about auto's ... with manuals it would be practically impossible without the brakes being used.

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    Default Thanks Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    I find this an extraordinary story indeed. Imagine being told that. I would not muck about with these clowns and take it further up the chain if its a real worry for you.
    I just cant believe that tyhey said the car was unrliable. I bet all those punters parting with there 45K would notn like to be told that. HOW OUTRAGEOUS...THATS INSANE!!!!
    Thanks for your 2 cents. That's the bit that got me. Unreliable electrics! - what about the airbags, seat belt pretensioners, brake assist etc etc OMG.
    In a drive-by-wire multiplexed car relaibility is VERY IMPORTANT I would have thought. But then I'm just a mug punter who has owned 7 Renaults, five Citroens and a bunch of 504's. But was never more happy as a customer than when I had Toyota Camry for a few years - minor problems fixed on the driveway, more major - in an hour, super bad - here - take a loan car now and we'll fix it.

    Thanks everybody for your comments about speed creep - that's a known feature of all limiters etc, and all the more reason why the setting mechanism should be finer than 4kmh.

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