Fuegos.....
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 32

Thread: Fuegos.....

  1. #1
    al
    al is offline
    1000+ Posts al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    2,012

    Default Fuegos.....

    I've been tossing up the idea of picking up a cheap frog to use in motokhanas/autocrosses/trackdays, and yesterday was pointed towards the fuego by a mate.

    A couple of quick q's...

    1. How much do you have to spend to pick up a mechanically solid example? (interior/exterior not a bigger concern)

    2. Do they handle well?

    and finally...

    3. Are spares still easily obtainable?

    Advertisement


    Basically i'm just looking for something fun that i can bash around some events in and not have to worry about.

    Any responses would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    6,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by al_
    1. How much do you have to spend to pick up a mechanically solid example? (interior/exterior not a bigger concern)
    They seem to range from carton of beer level up to $3K plus for a minto example. Watch out for the original 340mm metric rims and tyres, they are a liability and a good bargaining chip. The mechanicals are quite bulletproof, just check when the cambelt was last done. It is the interior, stuck instruments and dandruffy metallic paint that lets old Fuego's down, they can look quite shabby, despite being mechanically tough.

    Quote Originally Posted by al_
    2. Do they handle well?
    Reading what some people seem to do on AF's you wouldn't think so :-). As a road car I'd say they are OK, I've found the non power steer cars heavy to drive, so on a motorkhana I'd say they would be a bit of a handful. As a track or motorkhana car I'd say you would soon get bored of perennial understeer unless you started doing mods. Then there are the flexible engine and transmission mounts which may require beefing up for serious competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by al_
    3. Are spares still easily obtainable?
    Very good parts availability, apart from some new panels. They are now Pick-A-Part fodder and places like Caravelle Imports in Melbourne have the full range of mechanical bits and pieces

    Quote Originally Posted by al_
    Basically i'm just looking for something fun that i can bash around some events in and not have to worry about.
    I would have thought something like an old Pug 205 GTi may be handier and a bit more rewarding than a Fuego as a track/khana car. Then again the 205 would likely cost more to buy probably for that very reason.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Ipswich, Queensland.
    Posts
    1,963

    Default

    Having had both a Fuego and a 205GTI, a cheap 205 at around $3500 would be much more rewarding than a Fuego. A 205 is just as tough, faster, lighter, parts easily available, with much better handling and dynamics in standard form than the best Fuego. The only win the Fuego has is its' cheaper starting price.

    I competed for 5 years in my 205 in various club events, and was always amazed how well it made an ordinary driver look good.
    '56 Renault 4CV (16TS Power)
    '62 Renault Dauphine Gordini
    '82 Renault Fuego GTX
    '89 Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo
    '02 and '03 Renault Clios 1.4L
    '13 Renault Megane RS265 Trophee+

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! frogs4ever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by al_
    1. How much do you have to spend to pick up a mechanically solid example? (interior/exterior not a bigger concern)
    Bugger all.

    2. Do they handle well?
    Excellent, provided you run a good tyre/wheel combo, rather than the standard TRX wheels and tires. For my Fuego, I obtained a set of 14"x6" steel Clio rims, complete with nice looking Clio hub caps, for $100. They are a perfect fit in terms of centre bore and stud pattern, and are also said to have the correct offset. Make sure you use a good tire on the front - I used A539 195/60's - the rear's not so important. I personally found best results with around 34 psi in the fronts and around 27 psi in the rears. Set up like this, it was a hoot to punt around on bitumen or dirt, with very high grip levels, nice fluid steering, and beautifully adjustable rear end. These cars defy the laws of physics when it comes to handling balance - I've had the tail wagging far more often than front tires scrubbing - they are bags of fun.

    3. Are spares still easily obtainable?
    Generally yes.

    In addition, I would expect that, with some work, a lot of extra performance could be found from the engine, as in standard form they are in a very lazy state of tune and optimized for 91RON fuel.

    Durability wise, the engines and gearbox's can take a real flogging, but take head of advice elsewhere on aussiefrogs regarding engine mounts, and lower wishbone mounts.
    Last edited by frogs4ever; 24th April 2005 at 10:57 AM.
    2004 Clio Expression Verve 4sp auto -
    1984 Fuego GTX 5 speed (now a write off) -
    1976 504 GL auto (sold)

    French cars, Australian wine.

  5. #5
    al
    al is offline
    1000+ Posts al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    you guys in the renault forum are so honest... If i asked that question back in pug land all you hear are (rose tinted) compliments...

    Thanks anyway guys, point taken. I have a couple of 205s in the family and they are great cars...

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    12,663

    Default Fuego track cars

    Al

    I think you will see more and more Fuegos being used for motor sport - there are several that are in process to be set up for track work, and many mods being trialled among Fuego enthusiasts.

    A basic Fuego can be bought for between $600 to $800, but most need a good set of aftermarket tyres. Don't worry about the claim of hard steering for the non power steering model, with the TRX thrown away and a good set of after market non metric rims fitted and wide profile tyres, the non power steering model steers better than the power steering model.

    For comparison my daughters non power steering car had the same fingertip steering feel as my own power steering model (it still has TRX fitted, but only for originality) Di's car on the other hand has positive steering AND excellent performance on corners, she has driven both setups and prefers the non power steering for its more positive feel and control.

    If you look at reports from the social events calendar drives earlier this year you will see how that car and Mistarennos' car performed on that drive, particularly through tight corners.

    With knowledge of some of the mods planned and tweeks to suspension, engine mounts and transmissions, I think we will see some amazing performances as these modified cars appear at events in the future.

    There are also sites mainly in Argentina that feature extensively modded cars for road and track performance, but mainly using a slightly their GTA Max larger engine and things like nitrous oxide etc.

    Australia is one of the few places that still has a good supply of used Fuegos' also Melbourne has the best supplies of new parts for these cars ( and quite inexpensive compared with some others).

    Myself I just love driving my Fuego, in stock standard form, it has all that I need to keep my blood running hot!!

    Ken
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 24th April 2005 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Minor missed words!

  7. #7
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    parallel 43 south
    Posts
    1,900

    Default

    Al, I am still looking for a buyer for a stock 84 Fuego, (not the power steer) with 14" steel wheels / tyres... AND its red. (they go much faster)
    It has minor front-left damage in it, and will need a new bonnet, but wasn't a big bump. I have most of the parts needed for the repair.

    Ken knows this car.

    Its not that I don't want it, but I have another 84 and not enough room for so many cars.

    PM me if your interested in having a look sometime. We can have a chat.

    I have some online photos if you would like to take a look, and I am in Melbourne.

    David.
    Last edited by vivid; 24th April 2005 at 09:47 PM.
    Powered by high grade French plutonium.

  8. #8
    al
    al is offline
    1000+ Posts al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    Cheers for the advice ken and vivid. From what you said ken i think i should go and take one for a drive and make my own mind up.

  9. #9
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    spinsterhood
    Posts
    3,410

    Default

    Al
    If you go the fuego.....I'll race ya!!

    Aus

    ....oh & whoever said stock standard they are set for 91RON....not true. The GTX was set for 97(super) but they run like a dream on 98RON and for track days etc I would never choose the power steer model...it sucks! (you lose half your turning circle to the hydraulics! not to mention road feel. The secret to getting the most out of the unassisted steering is to know the length of your car & never fear the loud pedal. P.S. Understeer is only a problem if you a) panic b) haven't got the b*lls to trust the car. c) or not enough grip d) way too big B*lls....otherwise called braking too late.
    Last edited by Australdi; 9th May 2005 at 02:36 PM.
    Aus
    ".....the good health of a pond is held in a delicate balance. A pond's condition
    deteriorates when the bottom environment cannot support animal life.
    The bottom is the area that runs out of oxygen first, it is where the most oxygen is used........"



    '84 fuego GTX
    '87 fuego GTX
    '85 fuego GTX
    ....beginning to look a bit frightning isn't it.

  10. #10
    al
    al is offline
    1000+ Posts al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Australdi
    Al
    If you go the fuego.....I'll race ya!!

    Aus
    You're on!

    But, what is the story with wheels for these jiggers? I've done a search, and found people say over and over that camira wheels fit, but i'm not a fan of the looks.

    Are there any steelies that will fit in 15's? Is this the size to go for?

  11. #11
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    spinsterhood
    Posts
    3,410

    Icon14

    I'm on 15's 205's & I love em!
    Talk to dad (kenfuego) about steels or alloys (not sure what size tho) I think he has some going cheap.
    I can't wait to have the time & money to do my rally car now...esp. if there's someone to race against!

    Aus
    Aus
    ".....the good health of a pond is held in a delicate balance. A pond's condition
    deteriorates when the bottom environment cannot support animal life.
    The bottom is the area that runs out of oxygen first, it is where the most oxygen is used........"



    '84 fuego GTX
    '87 fuego GTX
    '85 fuego GTX
    ....beginning to look a bit frightning isn't it.

  12. #12
    al
    al is offline
    1000+ Posts al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    I just got my new credit card in the mail so with a bit of luck i can start building up the one i'm planning on buying from your dad.... (Is there anything i need to know about it while he isn't around...?)

    Australdi, what have you got planned for your rally foogoo? What mods help them get around a bit quicker?

  13. #13
    Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    6,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Australdi
    ....oh & whoever said stock standard they are set for 91RON....not true. The GTX was set for 97(super) but they run like a dream on 98RON:
    I have done in the past. And so did Renault Importers on Service Information note T 3/85 issued 23/7/85. "Renault Fuego all Australian versions Super Petrol or Unleaded. The use of ULP in Fuego is entirely at an owners discretion."

    The Renault 20 with the identical head and the Renault 25 are specified for Super fuel only. This is because the Australian Fuego was a low compression version with 8.6:1 compression and the 20 was 9.2:1 compression.

    So if the Fuego has been reconditioned with later pistons, or the head has been shaved significantly, then it will require at least PULP. But if bone stock, the motor should (and has been known) to run well on ULP 91 octane. For the benefit of those who have just tuned in as well, the Fuego, 20 and 25 have hardened valve seats that make it OK to use unleaded (PULP (at least 95 octane) only in the case of the 20 and 25)

    Quote Originally Posted by Australdi
    ....and for track days etc I would never choose the power steer model...it sucks! (you lose half your turning circle to the hydraulics! not to mention road feel.
    I would imagine this is because the power steering is higher geared therefore fewer turns lock to lock, but likely the same turning circle. I would imagine the non power steer Fuego would get a bit tedious on a track because of the amount of wheel twirling required. The turning circle for both cars appears to be 10.25 metres, the turns lock to lock for manual steer 3.72, power steer 2.89.
    Last edited by Simon; 10th May 2005 at 01:09 AM.

  14. #14
    Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    6,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by al_
    What mods help them get around a bit quicker?
    Probably just get it on the track ASAP, that way you can find out what is required, also if you like punting the thing around. I'd be starting with the suspension, once that is sorted then you can start thinking about twin Webers, or proprietary injection, 2.2 pistons and liners, cams and possibly 12 valve heads later on......

  15. #15
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    parallel 43 south
    Posts
    1,900

    Icon6

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    I would imagine this is because the power steering is higher geared therefore fewer turns lock to lock, but likely the same turning circle. I would imagine the non power steer Fuego would get a bit tedious on a track because of the amount of wheel twirling required. The turning circle for both cars appears to be 10.25 metres, the turns lock to lock for manual steer 3.72, power steer 2.89.
    Simon are you saying the steering is higher geared, or the gearbox?

    al_, I have a fuego off the road (in addition to the one I am selling) with the intention of taking it on the track, but not to the extent of making it un-streetable. Tho this is a long term project, so that I can justify spending the money required.

    Has the one you have bought off Ken a power, or non p/s model?
    Which one... what colour?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    Probably just get it on the track ASAP, that way you can find out what is required, also if you like punting the thing around. I'd be starting with the suspension, once that is sorted then you can start thinking about twin Webers, or proprietary injection, 2.2 pistons and liners, cams and possibly 12 valve heads later on......
    I was thinking of dropping a R21 head onto the fuego block next, as its engine is (still) sitting in the car with its head off. I have an unused gasket kit from ken at caravelle, but can I use it if I put a 21 head on it? Will I need to change the piston stroke, or will the original fuego pistons be usable as-is... even provide the required drop in compression if turbo charging?
    Last edited by vivid; 10th May 2005 at 12:07 PM.
    Powered by high grade French plutonium.

  16. #16
    al
    al is offline
    1000+ Posts al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vivid

    Has the one you have bought off Ken a power, or non p/s model?
    Which one... what colour?
    The car i was looking at was a red non p/s one.

    Ken, (if you see this) i will get in touch with you soon. Hopefully i will be ready to roll by this weekend...

    My plans for it aren't huge at the moment. (I guess getting it would be a good start anyway...) I would imagine that being a 20+ year old car it is going to require a bit of mechanical attention.

    Also, what do they weigh? Is there much weight to be lost by stripping them out, or is this just a bit of a wank? (This won't be used often so practicallity is not an issue?

    One problem i am likely to encounter soon is the wheels one... As i asked in a previous post, are 15'' wheels the ones to go for? Are steels available for them in this size?

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    12,663

    Default More detailed reply later.

    Al

    Just leaving for a Funeral of all things, but will give you a more detailed reply later - lots of steel wheel options.

    Ken

  18. #18
    Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    6,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vivid
    Simon are you saying the steering is higher geared, or the gearbox?
    Read what I typed again and see if you need to ask the question again.......





    Kerb weight of a 1363 Fuego is 1180kg's, plus probably another few kg's for the AUS spec emission car and the varying equipment.

  19. #19
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    parallel 43 south
    Posts
    1,900

    Default

    OK

    I read it again.

    I was on my way out, and my brain put the word 'model' into your sentence when I read it... making it I would imagine this is because the power steering [model] is higher geared therefore fewer turns lock to lock.......

    Forgive my stupidity, I didn't think the gear ratios were any different between Australian models.
    So maybe another stupid question. Is it possible to use the power steering bits to make a non p/s with less wheel turns? or would this just make it STUPIDLY heavy?

    Al I will be interested to hear what tyre / suspension options you go for.
    Powered by high grade French plutonium.

  20. #20
    al
    al is offline
    1000+ Posts al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vivid

    Al I will be interested to hear what tyre / suspension options you go for.
    I will be interested to hear what you all suggest when i ask the question...

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Yarrabilba, Queensland
    Posts
    2,760

    Default P/S vs standard steering

    Di, & others
    your dad posted that you are more in favour of the nonP/S version, due to the feel of the steering. How much does that change with 14'' or 15'' tyres on a non P/S vehicle?
    I drove that one owner Red Fuego I posted about last year, and felt it was lighter to steer than my old R17.(185-70x13 Pirelli tyres)
    Those TRX tyres are long life suckers aren't they? Is the wet weather handling as bad as touted?

    Chris
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  22. #22
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    spinsterhood
    Posts
    3,410

    Default

    HKP
    Having only changed from TRXs to 15/205s all I can say is the steering got heaps lighter & the grip is excellent.
    The TRXs in the wet after a few years could be a bit of fun but I don't think they are as bad as everyone makes out unless you drive like you've got the aftermarkets on.
    Aus
    P.S. Yes those suckers last for almost ever! 140,000 kms the best I got!
    Aus
    ".....the good health of a pond is held in a delicate balance. A pond's condition
    deteriorates when the bottom environment cannot support animal life.
    The bottom is the area that runs out of oxygen first, it is where the most oxygen is used........"



    '84 fuego GTX
    '87 fuego GTX
    '85 fuego GTX
    ....beginning to look a bit frightning isn't it.

  23. #23
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    parallel 43 south
    Posts
    1,900

    Default

    I concur Australdi, I had a set of TRX's that did very close to 200,000 kms before the tread was unroadworthy.

    As far as TRX's in the wet, I have had a few nasty experiences myself, and know of a couple of Fuegos that had been written off due to (apparently) front end damage in the wet, I suspect from hard old TRX's.

    However that said, imo AWESOME performers on dry tarmac.

    They get a pretty hard rap (well diserved I think) but were pretty amazing for their time, and also have their good points. However in my case all it took was a baby seat to be put in the fuego, to realise its not worth the risk.

    My for what it is worth.

    David.
    Powered by high grade French plutonium.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    12,663

    Default Fuego TRX tyres

    I still run the old original TRX on my car, but the compound is quite hard as they are the original tyres that were fitted new when it was first registered in 1986. If you brake hard in close city traffic (smooth bitumen road surface) they tend to sliiiide - bad feeling, corner o.k., but I don't really push them, andf on some corners they squeal a bit.

    There is some surface wall cracking on a couple of the tyres due to their age.

    My 86 is a power steering fitted model, nice fingertip steering, very responsive, car is now nearing the 100,000 km mark and I will be replacing the road tyres with newer TRX for the winter. Suspension is getting a bit looser in feel as the km's get closer to the magic 100,000 km mark.

    Australdi's (Di's) tyre set up is excellent on the 85 model with I think Goodrich tyres? and much better than my sons car which has 195/50VR 15 Pirelli Drago tyres fitted - Di has driven both configurations and you can get much better feel and cornering out of her tyre setup - and the steering is so light compared with the TRX you would swear it has power steering! The tyres on Di's car perform much better in the wet than my sons.

    We really need to set up an Aussie frogs drivers day and compare notes and run them on a skid pan just for fun I am sure that Richard (Mistarenno) is way ahead of all of us with his suspension experiments and mods.

    On the steel wheels, there was a post last year that listed heaps of wheels that will fit the Fuego and with correct offset to clear brakes etc.

    Recommended fuel for the fuego when it was issued was 97 octane rated leaded fuel, but as Simon has said Renault left it for the owner to decide to use 91 RON Unleaded fuel when it came in.

    Most of us find that either a 98 Ron fuel or a shandy of 98 RON and 91 RON fuel seems to run well in our cars, (depends how deep your pockets are )

    Ken.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Yarrabilba, Queensland
    Posts
    2,760

    Default Fuel Issue

    If I had a Fuego I'd be running it on higher octane fuel, Vortex or similar.
    When we ran the 505 on standard un-leaded it didn't perform quite as well, but worse, had a terrible over-run problem on shut-down like you wouldn't believe. It runs on horribly, but only on the low octane stuff.
    My swedish turbo( ) is even worse on 91. The handbook says anything form 91-98. It's got an ECU that cuts boost back if knock is detected, bad on standard unleaded.
    Chris
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •