Interesting Night
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Icon8 Interesting Night

    Well, just got back from a weird night. I got a call from my fiance when she wason her way home from work. Apparently the 225 went clunk, the steering failure, traction contorl and stop lights came on and the car wouldn't turn. Keep in mind this was in a 80kph zone outside of Lilydale just on Peak Hour. Thankfully she managed to get it off the road without hurting herslef or others around her. Car then wouldn't start. After calling me she rang Renault Assist who very great. Car is now at the towing depot as it occured after gary warren smith were closed.

    Ok. I can easily forgive a car for having a problem, I mean I have owned 2 Mi16's. Besides, this car is under warranty so I'm not worried about getting it fixed. My main concern is that this severly affected the drive of the car and put my fiance's and god knows who else's lives in danger. The car was impossible to steer. If it had occured 10 minutes down the track she would have been on the Eastern Fwy doing 100kph.

    I am a very grateful man tonight, but also a very angry man. I shouldn't be angry at the dealer as its not really their fault but I intend to be angry at someone.
    What do people think I should do??

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    Dave
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    Fellow Frogger! JAG80's Avatar
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    Dave,
    Sorry to hear about that mate . I find it hard to believe that something like that could go wrong with a brand new car. Do you have any idea what's wrong? What could cause complete steering loss? I'd be angry at the Renault engineers for that.
    It reminds me of this time when I was about 13 and my mum was driving the Renault 20 and all of sudden the car wouldn't drive because both the front wheels were pointing inward - can't remember what caused it...but if it happened even at 60 km/h who knows what would've happened. I guess you'd expect these things with older cars...but certainly not brand new ones
    Hope it's easily fixed man...in time for French car festival?????
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  3. #3
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Dave, sounds like power steer belt has given way?? If this happened at speed you probably wouldn't notice it that much, so not as dangerous as it sounds.

    Just guessing though.... doesn't explain why the car wouldn't restart??

    Cheers
    Chris
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood
    Dave, sounds like power steer belt has given way?? If this happened at speed you probably wouldn't notice it that much, so not as dangerous as it sounds.
    No belt mate, it's electric steering assist.

    The failsafe I believe is to provide direct steering if there is a failure.

    Do you know if the steering was actually locked or just VERY heavy? Might have given the impression of being unable to steer.

    It sounds like a total electrical failure of some sort. Glad to hear Renault Assist were helpful.
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    why do people insist on talking crap? I get people bring cars etc to me saying the brakes stopped working and the steering wouldn't turn and so on.

    Are people so pathetic they can no longer turn a steering wheel without assistance or press a brake pedal a tad harder.

    The steering wheel is part of the steering column which funnily enough part of the rack, yes its a direct linkage to the wheels. Its not a fly by wire steering set up where the wheel is only attached to a servo and the steering is done electric motor it's merely an assisted mechanical linkage!

    Brakes don't stop working they merely no longer have servo assistance, you just need to press harder. I know you made no mention of this but chances are she will probably say they got harder to press after a couple of applications.

    The stop lights etc came on because the engine stalled.

    The next question is why did the engine stall, now this is another area. If its the card key if there was by any chance some sort of immobilser fault despite the liughts etc coming on then there is an outside chance that the steering lock came on thus it wouldn't have steered at all, even on a straight road a locked wheel will make it go off the road especialy at 80kph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris H
    The steering wheel is part of the steering column which funnily enough part of the rack, yes its a direct linkage to the wheels. Its not a fly by wire steering set up where the wheel is only attached to a servo and the steering is done electric motor it's merely an assisted mechanical linkage!
    Err.. if ignition is off in a card based ignition system, what happens when it turns off? If the card fails or its reader, can the car lock the steering when it stalls?
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    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    That is really bad luck and very scary to be in that situation. How can the steering do that though.
    Why would it be affected and the steering and all warning lights come on?
    Imagine something like that occuring on one of these Renault track days?
    Its very odd to say the least?
    Keep us updated as to what the dealer tells you is wrtong and what happened?
    Ask for faulty parts and a full explanation and report back to us please?
    Thats really interested....

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris H
    why do people insist on talking crap? I get people bring cars etc to me saying the brakes stopped working and the steering wouldn't turn and so on.

    Are people so pathetic they can no longer turn a steering wheel without assistance or press a brake pedal a tad harder.
    actually mate. I'm not talking crap. the steering was too heavy for a 23 year old woman to turn off the road. So before you think you own this forum with you negative and unwanted help, be careful what you post. I find that you calling my fiance pathetic extremely insulting. She can certainly drive this car well. Obviously there is a serious problem with the electronic steering. Perhaps the failsafe should have worked but it was certainly not working last night. Maybe you should find a forum in Scotland where its ok to slander people publicly because its not welcome here.

    David
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    That is really bad luck and very scary to be in that situation. How can the steering do that though.
    Why would it be affected and the steering and all warning lights come on?
    Imagine something like that occuring on one of these Renault track days?
    Its very odd to say the least?
    Keep us updated as to what the dealer tells you is wrtong and what happened?
    Ask for faulty parts and a full explanation and report back to us please?
    Thats really interested....
    thanks for everyone else's concerns. Yep I will let you all know of the outcomes when I find out what's wrong. I just think this is really dangerous more than anything. To have extremely little steering control at speed is a bad thing.
    Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europa
    No belt mate, it's electric steering assist.
    Oh, of course - I'll go back to the '70s

    "you know, when you were able to take off your nylon stocking fashion a makeshift belt and be back on the road......"

    Cheers
    Chris (very toungue in cheek)
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    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris H
    why do people insist on talking crap? I get people bring cars etc to me saying the brakes stopped working and the steering wouldn't turn and so on.
    Yea, how dare David bring to our attention a serious mechanical/electrical fault he had with his car! Its a complete disgrace. His wife should have known that problems could arise at any time like this, especially considering it is a new car. It's common knowledge!

    This is clearly David & David's partner at fault and in no way are Renault in the wrong at all. In fact, the Renault Assist line should have never been called.

    David should be completely ashamed of himself for even posting this 'crap' at all.

    I make a movement that David is expelled from this forum and that Chris H is made a moderator and given all privileges and power.








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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadbyrnes
    Yea, how dare David bring to our attention a serious mechanical/electrical fault he had with his car! Its a complete disgrace. His wife should have known that problems could arise at any time like this, especially considering it is a new car. It's common knowledge!

    This is clearly David & David's partner at fault and in no way are Renault in the wrong at all. In fact, the Renault Assist line should have never been called.

    David should be completely ashamed of himself for even posting this 'crap' at all.

    I make a movement that David is expelled from this forum and that Chris H is made a moderator and given all privileges and power.








    or not.


    yeah fair point (head between legs)
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bigbadbyrnes
    Yea, how dare David bring to our attention a serious mechanical/electrical fault he had with his car! Its a complete disgrace. His wife should have known that problems could arise at any time like this, especially considering it is a new car. It's common knowledge!
    I don't know... fair's fair!

    Look at what he wrote, and judge it for what he wrote, not what you read into it:

    I get people bring cars etc to me saying the brakes stopped working and the steering wouldn't turn and so on.

    Are people so pathetic they can no longer turn a steering wheel without assistance or press a brake pedal a tad harder.
    It reminds me of the news broadcast years ago when a bus driver told viewers he had simultaneous steering and brake failure on his bus... that's why he crashed into the wall.

    Well, what had really happened was that he'd locked the front wheels on the greasy road, so the brakes and steering no longer had any input into the bus' direction or rate of deceleration!

    It's a matter of the correct words at the correct time. The steering didn't fail, the power assistance to the steering failed! The steering was always there... didn't she use it to get the car off the road?

    And as GreenBlood mentioned, it would have been less noticeable at speed.

    The whole thing seems to me to boil down to what I often post... people should know more about the dynamics of cars. How they work and what they do, what functions do what and how they do them.

    What's the net result if people don't take the trouble to learn these things?

    Panic! Danger to everyone around them when things go wrong...

    There is a lot of protection in knowledge and I think it would be wise for a lot of people on these fora to take that advice to heart rather than jump down the throats of wiser heads who are trying in some way or other to impart knowledge and common sense to them.

  14. #14
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    Default Too much caber tossing?

    [QUOTE=Chris H]why do people insist on talking crap? I get people bring cars etc to me saying the brakes stopped working and the steering wouldn't turn and so on.

    Are people so pathetic they can no longer turn a steering wheel without assistance or press a brake pedal a tad harder.

    Not everyone has caber tossing arms to manouver cars that have power steering failure. Not all persons who drive cars are blessed with a deep mechnical knowlege.
    For instance my wife is not a car enthusiast she likes our Peugeots to drive and is an A to B driver as probably the majority of drivers are.

    Driving has enough risks without vehicle problems developing such as we are discussing and causing at the least driver distraction and at the worst vehicle loss of control.
    One of the reasons I sold our Renault Laguna was it stopping on a 6 lane road in face of oncoming trafic when she was driving with the kids on board! This was a frequent event engine stopping for no apparent reason. Now if she was the only car on the road not to much of a problem however other cars are not expecting you to stop on round-a-bouts and highways.

    Until the fault is investigated and the cause posted none of us are in the position to cast judgement.

    In the meantime I must seriously now look at renouncing my Scots citizenship and fill in the forms for the Aussie one.

    Graelin

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood
    "you know, when you were able to take off your nylon stocking fashion a makeshift belt and be back on the road......"
    You wore stockings in the 70's?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europa
    You wore stockings in the 70's?

    SHhh; don't tell everybody!!


    Alan S
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Graelin]
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris H
    why do people insist on talking crap? I get people bring cars etc to me saying the brakes stopped working and the steering wouldn't turn and so on.

    Are people so pathetic they can no longer turn a steering wheel without assistance or press a brake pedal a tad harder.

    Not everyone has caber tossing arms to manouver cars that have power steering failure. Not all persons who drive cars are blessed with a deep mechnical knowlege.
    For instance my wife is not a car enthusiast she likes our Peugeots to drive and is an A to B driver as probably the majority of drivers are.

    Driving has enough risks without vehicle problems developing such as we are discussing and causing at the least driver distraction and at the worst vehicle loss of control.
    One of the reasons I sold our Renault Laguna was it stopping on a 6 lane road in face of oncoming trafic when she was driving with the kids on board! This was a frequent event engine stopping for no apparent reason. Now if she was the only car on the road not to much of a problem however other cars are not expecting you to stop on round-a-bouts and highways.

    Until the fault is investigated and the cause posted none of us are in the position to cast judgement.

    In the meantime I must seriously now look at renouncing my Scots citizenship and fill in the forms for the Aussie one.

    Graelin
    thank you graelin.

    Ray, fair enough when you say the electric assistance to the steering failed, not the steering itself. Although she could get it off the road, it was extremely difficult for her to do so. I have no doubt that she knows how to drive and apprecites the car as a great thing to get her to and from work in comfort and a bit of style. She is not interested in every little thing about the car, nor should she be if she be doesn't want to. The fact remains that something seriously went wrong with the car. At speed this would have been the same I suspect as the car doesn't have a belt. She was travelling at around 80kph so I would call that at speed anyway.

    My problem with that post was that this guy was more interested in having a go at her driving ability and knowledge of the car than actually realising that there was a significant fault with it. Just plain childish if you ask me. In my first post I was asking for help and ideas. The last thing I expected was to be slandered.

    cheers
    Dave
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris H
    ...why do people insist on talking crap? I get people bring cars etc to me saying the brakes stopped working and the steering wouldn't turn and so on...
    I'd say they must be people looking for a fight. It's obvious, isn't it?

    Anyway, I guess you now know that you could have made your point in a less derogatory way. Let's keep AF a friendly place...

    Stuey (Scot+Mod)


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  19. #19
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Guys,

    I've asked the Mod to take a peak at this thread as I feel there's more of a misunderstanding and a bit of a cultural difference rather than an attempt to slander anyone.
    I am moderator on a few other boards overseas and this "clash of cultures" (even in other English speaking countries too) is something we often encounter. Some of these guys in Northern England (Lancs & Yorks) and the Scots tend to be more than blunt with their responses at times. No insults are intended, it's just the way they talk to each other and they often forget that it's not always accepted in the "outside" world. If an Aussie calls another a "mad bastard" it's taken as tongue in cheek, whereas people from other parts of the World will be rolling the sleeves up and be looking for a baseball bat. A yank will talk about a 'fanny' when he's in fact "talking out of (or about) his ar$e" and a yank will also go to the "John" while we go to the "Dunny".
    I recently had to step in and calm a post where a Portugese guy referred to someone as a "fool" because the guy couldn't see his point of view and was most upset that he had inadvertantly insulted the guy concerned who incidentally is a highly qualified engineer.
    Can I suggest you stick to the topic and let this comment go through to the 'keeper as it were as I'm sure if was never intended as a personal insult.
    These are the kind of people who at Christmas send you a card with

    "Money's tight, things are hard....here's yer f*****g Christmas card"

    Sort out the car problems and wait to see if the poster explains rather than go on assuming the worst.


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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by David Shearer
    Ray, fair enough when you say the electric assistance to the steering failed, not the steering itself. Although she could get it off the road, it was extremely difficult for her to do so. I have no doubt that she knows how to drive and apprecites the car as a great thing to get her to and from work in comfort and a bit of style. She is not interested in every little thing about the car, nor should she be if she be doesn't want to. The fact remains that something seriously went wrong with the car. At speed this would have been the same I suspect as the car doesn't have a belt. She was travelling at around 80kph so I would call that at speed anyway.....
    This is all difficult... if it was still so heavy that it was really difficult at 80kmh, then it's a design fault, not a mechanical failure! Steering shouldn't be that heavy...

    However, you seem to have missed my point. What I was saying is that it's not a matter of 'nor should she be if she doesn't want to' when it comes to automotive dynamics... it should be mandatory for anyone wanting to drive a car!

    The more someone knows, the greater the level of protection they have from potential disasters. From simple things like knowing to turn into a slide to getting your foot off the pedal when the brakes lock to understanding what things are doing when it starts to go haywire.

    .....My problem with that post was that this guy was more interested in having a go at her driving ability and knowledge of the car than actually realising that there was a significant fault with it. Just plain childish if you ask me. In my first post I was asking for help and ideas. The last thing I expected was to be slandered.
    I don't see any slander anywhere in his post at all, none of it... just read the words. He talks about 'people', sure, but he isn't specific. And mainly he talks about mechanical and electrical things.

    I can well see how he's perturbed at the number of people who speak this way... it simply makes life harder to have to think beyond the actual words to find the meaning of the sentences, and to decipher the level of knowledge or understanding someone has from what they say.

    Take the number of people who say 'broken down' for instance... and for what reasons. 'Broken down' to some means as silly a thing as running out of petrol! Is that 'broken down'? I don't think so. And what constitutes an engine that's 'blown up'? One with a spark plug lead missing?

    One of the great things about this forum is that it can impart knowledge... let's all work towards using that knowledge...

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Guys,

    I've asked the Mod to take a peak at this thread as I feel there's more of a misunderstanding and a bit of a cultural difference rather than an attempt to slander anyone.
    I am moderator on a few other boards overseas and this "clash of cultures" (even in other English speaking countries too) is something we often encounter. Some of these guys in Northern England (Lancs & Yorks) and the Scots tend to be more than blunt with their responses at times. No insults are intended, it's just the way they talk to each other and they often forget that it's not always accepted in the "outside" world. If an Aussie calls another a "mad bastard" it's taken as tongue in cheek, whereas people from other parts of the World will be rolling the sleeves up and be looking for a baseball bat. A yank will talk about a 'fanny' when he's in fact "talking out of (or about) his ar$e" and a yank will also go to the "John" while we go to the "Dunny".
    I recently had to step in and calm a post where a Portugese guy referred to someone as a "fool" because the guy couldn't see his point of view and was most upset that he had inadvertantly insulted the guy concerned who incidentally is a highly qualified engineer.
    Can I suggest you stick to the topic and let this comment go through to the 'keeper as it were as I'm sure if was never intended as a personal insult.
    These are the kind of people who at Christmas send you a card with

    "Money's tight, things are hard....here's yer f*****g Christmas card"

    Sort out the car problems and wait to see if the poster explains rather than go on assuming the worst.


    Alan S
    sounds good, thanks Alan
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    Fellow Frogger! mmm...CORNERS's Avatar
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    Unfortunately most drivers today will NEVER experience a car without powersteer or assisted brakes. Such is the reliability of modern cars.
    The only time I have actually driven a car without any assistance at all is when I've had to roll my 306 down a small hill into a garage (dead fuel pump relay) I was shocked at how hard you have have press on the brakes to stop. The steering was heavy aswell, but not overly so.

    The best thing to do is go Go-Karting...the steerings pretty heavy on those and gives you an idea of driving with raw mechanical connections....and FUN!!!!!

    It's shocking that a new car of any kind should have such electronic failure as to disable steering ability of any amount. Hope it gets sorted out.
    I can only guess that it's heavy steering may be due to the fact that its a high powered FWD and the suspension set-up to negate torque steer ect may make it heavy without assistance?

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    Thinking about it, I'd assume that the electrical assistance should work so long as the ignition is on and the battery isn't discharged? I'll have to experiment with my wife's Astra tonight...you can clearly hear the buzz of the electric motor.

    Stuey


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    Dave let us all know please? We are keen to get a full diagnosis please?

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    Dave let us all know please? We are keen to get a full diagnosis please?

    Yeah me too, I'm still waiting for them to give me a diagnosis. Looks like the car may be off the orad for a while though. Damn it, means I may miss out on the festival this weekend. I'm going to demand a similiar replacment car too, they have a clio F1 demo hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!

    As soon as I know I'll let you all know.
    cheers
    Dave
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