more R15 brakes
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Thread: more R15 brakes

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default more R15 brakes

    hello there,

    just an update.

    i pulled the rear drums. one piston on each side was seized as were the auto adjusters. i found some R15 cylinders (car had good pedal) and unstuck shoes at Upullit.... cylinders were sleeved so i honed em and rekitted.

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    SAME issue.

    so now, rekitted rear cylinders, new proportioning valve, OK shoes, rebuilt master, OK front pads....

    still long pedal travel and easy lock up of rear wheels.

  2. #2
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    mistareno's Avatar
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    Default

    Just a few things,

    1, How many click's on the handbrake?

    2, Is the M/Cylinder bled (I still wouldn't discount a dud or pinched middle seal)

    3, Have you tried adjusting the limiter (I think you said you tried in the original thread )

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    hi there,


    >1, How many click's on the handbrake?

    approx 14.

    >2, Is the M/Cylinder bled (I still wouldn't discount a dud or pinched middle seal)

    master bled? i've never had reason to do this on other cars....

    >3, Have you tried adjusting the limiter (I think you said you tried in the original thread )

    dont think there is much point in this - the arm from the roll bar isn't touching the plate that presses on the valve - spring pressure on the valve only, when its on flat ground with no weight in the back.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mb300sel
    hi there,


    >1, How many click's on the handbrake?

    approx 14.
    Just humour me, apply the hand brake fully and then release it 2-3 clicks, then take the car for a drive, I think you will find the pedal ia alot higher...

    14 click's is far too much and would indicate that the rear brakes are miles out of adjustment.

    When adjusted properly, my Fuego (same rear brakes) has about 3-4 clicks....

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    When adjusted properly, my Fuego (same rear brakes) has about 3-4 clicks....
    In my experience, Fuego's have a lot less "clicks" than a R12/R15/R17..

    In fact, the handbrake seems to work a whole lot better on a Fuego as well!
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    Default

    there is something odd about the rear brakes. they dont seem to self adjust, tho everything moves freely. i ended up pulling drums off and clicking them up till they were right. pedal is better but i still don't think its right. i've never driven this with good brakes, and this is the only renault i have driven.

    as they are, with 6 clicks of the handbrake (cant get any less than this without shoes dragging), the rears no longer lock up prematurely (with handbrake off, of course).

    still, though the car pulls up ok, im not sure what they are supposed to feel like, and again, the pedal travel seems excessive.


    davide
    benz, jag, rover boy.... first foray into FWD or french (tho had a 404 for a while).





    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Just humour me, apply the hand brake fully and then release it 2-3 clicks, then take the car for a drive, I think you will find the pedal ia alot higher...

    14 click's is far too much and would indicate that the rear brakes are miles out of adjustment.

    When adjusted properly, my Fuego (same rear brakes) has about 3-4 clicks....

  7. #7
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    Davide, my R12 wagon (same brakes) has never auto adjusted despite the brakes being almost perfect mechanically. I simply do it manually.

    Maybe the locking was from the leading edge of the shoe catching because of the angle it would have been contacting the drum at, due to the distance the trailing edge was off the drum. If you know what I mean...

    Like I said in the other thread, there's a valve in the front outlet that essentially keeps the front pads up on the disk. Could be this.

    Stuey

  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    thanks Stuey... so the valve is under the outlet right at the end? how does one withdraw the valve?

    also... the pedal brake pedal sits a lot higher than the accelerator... but there is only minimal freeplay


    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    Davide, my R12 wagon (same brakes) has never auto adjusted despite the brakes being almost perfect mechanically. I simply do it manually.

    Maybe the locking was from the leading edge of the shoe catching because of the angle it would have been contacting the drum at, due to the distance the trailing edge was off the drum. If you know what I mean...

    Like I said in the other thread, there's a valve in the front outlet that essentially keeps the front pads up on the disk. Could be this.

    Stuey

  9. #9
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    OK, can we go back a few steps.

    1) What is the history of the car, has it been standing for some time. If so what was done to resurrect it in the way of a full brake overhaul, hoses, caliper seals. Rust could be in the system, or the hoses internally deteriorated.

    2) What condition are the pads and discs in?

    3) What diameter are the rear drums, 228.5mm is stock, with 229.5mm max oversize. Has the drum been machined too far and XOS linings fitted at some stage. Originally rivited brake linings were fitted. Replacements are usually bonded and consequently thinner. Worn bonded pads can give a long pedal if not kept in adjustment.

    4) What do you call a long pedal travel? How far is the pedal off the floor. The high brake pedal is normal for the 15.

    5) 12 clicks is normal for the self adjusting handbrake, but if the self adjust doesn't work (also mostly normal) it gets into experimentation.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default brakes..lack of

    With those rear brakes the shoes must have plenty lining, if the linings are thin you will get long pedal and grabbing brakes, my 15.s all had to have plenty lining to work properly.

  11. #11
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    The valve is under the cone on the fluid outlet at the end of the master cylinder. It's made out of rubber with a flattened end, and after a while it turns into a jelly like mess.

    You need to extract the cone - I used a small self tapper in the hole, and carefully extracted it with pliers. However, I made this suggestion because I thought you were ar 'last resort' territory - I assumed the rest of the system was pretty much OK.

    Stuey

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    hi there Simon,

    1) the car has been sitting perhaps two years. resleeved master, rebuilt rear valve, rekitted sleeved wheel cylinders. flex lines look ok. shoes maybe a bit thin but should be OK.

    2) pads look ok. discs ok, too. and i can't imagine the car being driven with the brakes as they were, so my thinking is that its hydraulic.

    3) haven't measured the drums. the original rivetted shoes fell apart, so for the sake of getting the car going, i scrounged some decent shoes from
    upullit, from the same 15 i took the cylinders from.

    4) i'll measure the distance betwwen floor and pedal when full braking is applied.


    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    OK, can we go back a few steps.

    1) What is the history of the car, has it been standing for some time. If so what was done to resurrect it in the way of a full brake overhaul, hoses, caliper seals. Rust could be in the system, or the hoses internally deteriorated.

    2) What condition are the pads and discs in?

    3) What diameter are the rear drums, 228.5mm is stock, with 229.5mm max oversize. Has the drum been machined too far and XOS linings fitted at some stage. Originally rivited brake linings were fitted. Replacements are usually bonded and consequently thinner. Worn bonded pads can give a long pedal if not kept in adjustment.

    4) What do you call a long pedal travel? How far is the pedal off the floor. The high brake pedal is normal for the 15.

    5) 12 clicks is normal for the self adjusting handbrake, but if the self adjust doesn't work (also mostly normal) it gets into experimentation.

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