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Thread: pistons

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default pistons

    hi,
    i'm after as many opinions as possible here.
    i have a 16ts engine in my r12 which needs rebuilding. all the parts are priced and sourced except for the pistons.
    as far as i know the options for pistons are as follows:
    *16TS pistons-1565cc
    *16TX " -1647cc
    *12G " -159?cc
    *17TS/G " - "
    *18GTS " -1647cc

    if any of these are incorrect please correct me.

    obviously these are subject to availability (i heard the US 17G pistons were slightly lower compression and the Aus TS/G pistons were impossible to find).
    i am unsure of the compatibility of the 18GTS flat top pistons with the 16TS head.

    the car is for normal road use and a bit of fun. i do not want too higher compression ratio (read avoid avgas), but do want more power and especially torque (hence looking at bigger bore)

    machining the block is no problem as i can use the real australian currency, beer. but i do want a larger bore and compression ratio higher than the current 8.6:1.

    all thoughts and suggestions welcomed.

    damn i love tax return time

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  2. #2
    Tadpole
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    Australia
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    We rebuilt an R18 motor (1647cc) to take a 16TS head by chamfering the piston crowns to match a TS piston. By doing this we were able to use a TS head on the R18 block in conjunction with a TS cam which is essential.

    It seems to have plenty of punch, particulalry in an R10 (but not much steering available under full acceleration!! hehe)

    -John

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3006882
    *16TS pistons-1565cc
    *16TX " -1647cc
    *12G " -159?cc
    *17TS/G " - "
    *18GTS " -1647cc
    R12G - 1565cc (Hi Comp)
    R17TS/G - 1605cc (Hi Comp)

    1605cc kits are hard (impossible?) to find, also the head gasket is different (by 1mm) and also hard to find.
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    The rally kit R12G had 77.8 mm pistons giving 1596cc. The 1605cc 78mm pistons can be used with the standard head gasket, or at least that is what I have been using for 20years. These liners will fit with no machining of the block. You could get a set of these pistons (78mm) made and bore a standard set of liners 1mm.
    I have been looking at the use of Pug 405 liners bored 1mm to 84mm to fit the 807 type block. Certainly they can be made to fit, but require some machine work to liners and block. This will give 1860cc, and would only need flat top pistons of unknown make (probably custom) to give enough compression.
    I am looking into using some manufacturers' standard pistons and using a longer custom conrod. I cannot find a standard production rod to suit a 48mm crank and the width of a Renault rod (27mm), at around 143mm to 145mm between centres. The standard rod/ stroke ratio is a little short for the best performance to be achieved at high rpm.
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
    '62 Renault Dauphine Gordini
    '89 Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo
    '08 Renault Megane sedan

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore
    The rally kit R12G had 77.8 mm pistons giving 1596cc. The 1605cc 78mm pistons can be used with the standard head gasket, or at least that is what I have been using for 20years. These liners will fit with no machining of the block. You could get a set of these pistons (78mm) made and bore a standard set of liners 1mm.
    Not sure how much difference it makes, but the 17TS rods are also a little different in that the small end is free floating and they are lighter - the bottom bearing cap using bolts to attach to the rod, rather than the more traditional stud/nut/washer combination.

    Out of interest, how many times did you have the head off in 20 years? It's all academic for me really, as I've gone back to the 1565cc "standard" R12G arrangement due to liner/block rot...
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    You are right about the Gordini rods being better. They are also 21mm small end, instead of 20mm. R18 also uses 21mm, but with a press fit, not fully floating.

    I have built four different engines with these Gordini 78mm type pistons, and have replaced head gaskets quite a few times through cam failure. I have never had a blown gasket.
    Big cams with 440 thou lift at the valve do not last. Tried nitriding and hardfacing and now look to be going to the trouble of getting a billet made, if my cam man can get around to it.
    One of these motors is what is in my 4CV. The big one, when I get to finish it, will be put in the 4CV with a M4 Motec. And you are right, I hardly need more Hp in a 650Kg car.
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
    '62 Renault Dauphine Gordini
    '89 Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo
    '08 Renault Megane sedan

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