Car Stereo Head Unit in R10 installation
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  1. #1
    Member R10 Rich's Avatar
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    Default Car Stereo Head Unit in R10 installation

    This may have been covered before but, oh well here I go...
    I want to put a car stereo head unit of standard single DIN dimensions in my 1969 R10.
    I have seen 2 techniques. One where the head unit is attached to the under of the dash in a box, just in front of the gear stick.
    The other method is to put the head unit in the drivers side glove box. This is the method I think I will use as it is fairly inconspicuous and shouldn't involve horrendous modifications to the dash.

    What is the best way to fit the head unit in this driver's side glove box? I'm thinking I will have to make a fitting so the head unit will sit properly in the hole. I would like the head unit it be tilted upward, tough I think this may be the only way of getting it in properly anyway.

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    Has anyone done this before? Perhaps you still have the dimensions & design method of the fitting you made, or found an entirely different solution.
    <--- The avatar looks just like my R10 with a strip

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    It was a popular place to put radios in (on the drivers "glovebox"), when I tried I felt it was too shallow to fit a CD player.

    Not up on all the latest lingo - is a "head Unit" the same basic dimensions as a stand alone CD player? in which case I think it would be hard to do. It would also block access to the fusebox.

    I fitted a CD player into the Top glovebox space by using an old template you used to be able to buy to fit a radio into this space. This brought the unit out a cm or so but even then I had to tilt it to clear the wiper arms and it used to shake and skip so I took it back out.

    I have resorted to listening to the music of the 1.4L and weber!!

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I had a single DIN size head unit neatly mounte in the drivers glovebox - just made up brackets to support it both side and and the back (think I used bits of Meccano )
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    R10 Rich,

    I used to have my stereo located in the drivers side glove box in my 10. It was just an early 90's radio/tape i grabbed out of my sisters virage so i just had it sitting in there (no one was gunna nick it!) i had the plastic face bit sitting over the lip nad it stayed in all the time (even while hammering it sideways and over bumps out on the dirt roads). And if you needed to get to the fuses u cold just lift it out.

    Now ive put a pioneer cd player in it so ive mounted it behind the top passenger glovebox with a couple of angle brackets, made a little black face to cover the hole and its great. When i park it in the city just flip down the little lid and no one knows it's there.

    On a side note, what speakers have u got in it. I built a parcel shelf with 6x9s in it but havent got around to putting front speakers in. Im thinking of puttin them in front doors but gotta be careful of clearance between the window winder mechanism. I think little slim 4'' will fit. Anyone put speakers in the front doors??

    Jensen

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    one of R10s had the stereo mounted under the dash next to the bonnet catch. This is not such a bad spot, but does get in the way for some people.
    For front speakers, a good spot is the drivers and passenger (door removed) glovebox and use 4 inch speakers. They still leave room to allow use of these cubby holes and the gloveboxs make good speaker boxes Looks very neat too.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  6. #6
    Member R10 Rich's Avatar
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    Jensen,
    I wouldn't bother with front speakers. They will inevitably clog up the tight cabin space are really aren't need. I plan to put some reasonably high power 6 inch speakers in the back and put super tweeters just above each front seat belt for the lost high frequencies. The rear speakers are so close to the driver that little sound is lost. Front speakers really can't be mounted in the doors, there just isn't enough room to do it properly without the speakers jabbing you in the legs of something unpleasant like that. Oh, I made some 6 inch mounts that slot into the rear parcel shelf nicley. I finished them with a similar vinyl to the original black vinyl used on the parcel shelf.

    I didn't even think about blocking off the fuse box. That might be a problem. The mechano idea is a goody, but I'm not to keen to drill holes in the dash. I thought I might make a fitting that clips into the top and sides of the head unit, and can then clip in behind the lip of the drivers glove box. I have no idea where to start with this though.
    Any more tips put there?

    As an aside, I put some of the bitumen based sound insulation behind the rear seats (inside the cat that is). This kind of worked for low revs, but the cabin still booms about at 100 clicks. It has always been a bit vibey since I put in a 1.4L virage motor. I have been through 3 exhausts is 2.5 years (yes 3!!), the one I have in now is quieter. Any other methods for sound deadening?
    <--- The avatar looks just like my R10 with a strip

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    Rich, Jaycar sell barium impregnated sound deadening mat which is about 10mm thick. This is meant to be good, although it weighs a fair bit.

    Stuey

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    Member R10 Rich's Avatar
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    I used some sound deadening mats that work better than the Jaycar ones but there is still heaps of noise. Its OK if I travel at (or below) 90 clicks but once I hit 100 it gets exponentially louder.
    <--- The avatar looks just like my R10 with a strip

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    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R10 Rich
    As an aside, I put some of the bitumen based sound insulation behind the rear seats (inside the cat that is). This kind of worked for low revs, but the cabin still booms about at 100 clicks. It has always been a bit vibey since I put in a 1.4L virage motor. I have been through 3 exhausts is 2.5 years (yes 3!!), the one I have in now is quieter. Any other methods for sound deadening?
    Its probably worth working out where the "boom" is eminating from - sometimes it can be other panels that harmonise with the engine/exhaust vibration (ie. floor panels, roof etc.) - use the thin bitumen coating on those panels to reduce the vibration

    As for general engine bay noise, I've found that the thin bitumen, followed by the "felt" type firewall stuff and then a final layer of the thin stuff again seems to stop a lot of the higher frequency stuff. Oh, and block every firewall hole, no matter how small :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by R10 Rich
    Its OK if I travel at (or below) 90 clicks but once I hit 100 it gets exponentially louder.
    If it was a new car, and you complained to the dealer now it would be called "normal" as the car is basically an old design and given the low gearing of the 10, at 100km/h the revs would be around 4,200rpm. Although I must admit I wouldn't really call my 8 excessively noisy at that speed given its age again.

    Check things like tightness and security of the rear undertrays, radiator panel etc, as these are attached directly to the body and will transmit noise and vibration to the interior if things are loose (but again the transfer of noise is inherent in the design even if they are tight). Also the trailing arm nuts from the swing axles to the rear crossmember under the car, the undertrays, cables, rods check all for security and vibration.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! 20FIVE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R10 Rich

    I have no idea where to start with this though.
    Any more tips put there?
    R10 Rich,

    I know Im going to be slapped for trying to mention the P(eugeot) word here, but I did a neat job on my 203. In the 203 I have the early centre instrument cluster, leaving the glove box available behind the steering wheel. Its been a while since I have opened a R10 GB, but hopefully I may provide some ideas.

    Once the GB cardboard insert was removed, I basically started with cardboard and worked out what shape would neatly fit inside the GB to cover the entire hole. This was then cut out of sheet metal, including the standard DIN hole for the radio, and painted to suit. This would provide a flush facia panel for which you can mount the radio. If you can fix the facia to any metal supports on the edges of the GB (inconspicuous on the 203) you may want to leave a couple of lugs on the facia plate when you cut it out.

    As mentioned previously, the rear mounting bolt on the back of the radio should be sufficient to support the weight of the radio and therefore a metal bracket (meccano) is ideal.

    You mentioned you wanted to angle the unit up, play around with cardboard to make a facia plate to suit your needs.

    If you haven't purchased the radio yet, maybe look for a radio which has a fairly large 'cage' for which the radio fits in.

    Just my two cents.

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    Just reading the reply of 20FIVE and re-reading the others reminded me that the R10 upper passenger glovebox housed the original "factory" radio with the removal of the lid and replacement with a facia plate. By removing the cardboard from the rear there may be enough space to house the radio (depth restricted by the wiper mechanism) but it could be angled to point up and still have space to close the lid hiding the radio.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Yep Simon u can fit head unit between the wiper mechanism protector and the opening, the cd player just sits on a bit of an angle, havent found any probs with operation of it but during the day i cant read the digital readout, but its a old car so u have to compromise some things! I just put an angle bracket between the head unit and the wiper protector to hold it all in place.

    Simon, do u know the exact ratios for the 10 box, (type 330 is it)?ive got a 10s tacho in it, which ive heard are notoriously inaccurate along with other 10S instrumenst but it reads roughly 3000-3100rpm at just over 60mph. 4200rpm in my car is more like 75 mph or something but if that is the gearing my tacho must be reading way low. Maybe my engine does pull more than 7 grand! i've been pretty easy with the new motor and having reved it right out that many times, the 10 now tops out its speedo but the tacho wasnt wired up when did that so not sure what rpm it was pulling (also at that speed in a 10 i would be eyes only for the road!!)

    Jensen

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    1000+ Posts Renomad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R10 Rich
    This may have been covered before but, oh well here I go...
    I want to put a car stereo head unit of standard single DIN dimensions in my 1969 R10.
    I have seen 2 techniques. One where the head unit is attached to the under of the dash in a box, just in front of the gear stick.
    The other method is to put the head unit in the drivers side glove box. This is the method I think I will use as it is fairly inconspicuous and shouldn't involve horrendous modifications to the dash.

    What is the best way to fit the head unit in this driver's side glove box? I'm thinking I will have to make a fitting so the head unit will sit properly in the hole. I would like the head unit it be tilted upward, tough I think this may be the only way of getting it in properly anyway.

    Has anyone done this before? Perhaps you still have the dimensions & design method of the fitting you made, or found an entirely different solution.
    I mounted my headunit (radio/cassette)and equalizer in the lower passenger glovebox. Plenty of room in there, you still have the other two gloveboxes for all the other crap that floats around in a cabin, it keeps the unit out of direct sunlight, away from prying eyes, is safer in the unfortunate event of an accident (less chance of striking your head or knees on knobs & buttons that are sticking out) and is lockable (although this wouldn't be much of a deterent), but it did mean that the passenger couldn't change the station, etc, as I was driving!
    I also made a parcel shelf that was mounted at an angle from the crossbar behind the rear seat to a lip just below the rear window ledge.
    So this meant the 9x6 speakers were mounted at an angle facing towards the front of the car (instead of straight up), it also acted as a boombox for that extra doof doof (base sound)! It certainly was loud enough!
    Cheers Renomad

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    Past frogs, R12 Wagon X2, R12GL, Fuego X2, R10 X2, R8 X.5!


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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jensen
    Yep Simon u can fit head unit between the wiper mechanism protector and the opening, the cd player just sits on a bit of an angle, havent found any probs with operation of it but during the day i cant read the digital readout, but its a old car so u have to compromise some things! I just put an angle bracket between the head unit and the wiper protector to hold it all in place.

    Simon, do u know the exact ratios for the 10 box, (type 330 is it)?ive got a 10s tacho in it, which ive heard are notoriously inaccurate along with other 10S instrumenst but it reads roughly 3000-3100rpm at just over 60mph. 4200rpm in my car is more like 75 mph or something but if that is the gearing my tacho must be reading way low. Maybe my engine does pull more than 7 grand! i've been pretty easy with the new motor and having reved it right out that many times, the 10 now tops out its speedo but the tacho wasnt wired up when did that so not sure what rpm it was pulling (also at that speed in a 10 i would be eyes only for the road!!)

    Jensen
    My CD player (a Kenwood single CD) did not like being put on that sort of angle at all. Worked Ok for a while, but was always prone to skipping. After a while though, it wouldnt spit the CD out. They like to be horizontal, as this is the position their internal shack absorbing mechanism is set up.

    There is no way any R10 is doing 3100 rpm at 100 kph - they are around 4000. My R10S speedo was way out (but it was hooked up to a standard gearbox) but the tacho seemed fine - it read something like 4100 at around 100 kph (even though the speedo was reading 40MPH....)
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    Try an Ipod, that would save all the mounting and space hassles!!

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    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    Try an Ipod, that would save all the mounting and space hassles!!
    Thats a good point, you could hide the amp somewhere more convenient and just have a cable connection available in the glovebox for it to connect to.

    Of course, you could use a more affordable player too, like a Nomad etc.

    You won't get mugged for one of those, unlike the iPod
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    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Haakon
    My CD player (a Kenwood single CD) did not like being put on that sort of angle at all. Worked Ok for a while, but was always prone to skipping. After a while though, it wouldnt spit the CD out. They like to be horizontal, as this is the position their internal shack absorbing mechanism is set up.

    Yeah occasionally it wont spit out the cd, sometimes i have to hit eject a couple of times. Havent had much trouble with skipping though.

    My tacho must be way out. At idle it is pretty accurate, i usually tune it on a diagnostic machine thing and the rpm the machine says its idleing at is pretty similar to what the tacho reads. I have another tacho that i know is faulty coz u cant get it to read over 3500 even when rev the motor nearly to the limit! Is there actually a difference between the R10 box and R10s. I thought it was just a different speedo cable with the dashboard end changed to fit into the vdo. Seems like a lot of effort for Renault Australia to change the ratios given the R10S was Aus only.

    Jensen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jensen
    Is there actually a difference between the R10 box and R10s. I thought it was just a different speedo cable with the dashboard end changed to fit into the vdo. Seems like a lot of effort for Renault Australia to change the ratios given the R10S was Aus only.

    Jensen
    The 10S box was basically an evolution box used in all newer 10's, different clutch release, bellhousing, etc and marginally different ratios for first and second from memory (I'll look them up and report back later). It was just that the batch of 10S stuff was virtually the last batch of engines and transmissions that were imported by Renault Aust., so they seem more common than the same later gearbox used in the last "normal" 10's. The 10S running gear is from the Euro 8S, so not a lot of effort was made to create the 10S
    Last edited by Simon; 25th June 2004 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Spooling mistooks

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Simon,

    My R10 on the Reg Sticker says it's a 1971 model but im assuming its a 1970 old stock model sold and reged in 71. It's got the later bell housing and clutch release ( which made it easy installing the 1.4 motor and 1.4 clutch) so im assuming that would mean mine is one of these later "normal 10"s with the later type box.

    Cheers for the Info

    Jensen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jensen
    Simon,

    My R10 on the Reg Sticker says it's a 1971 model but im assuming its a 1970 old stock model sold and reged in 71. It's got the later bell housing and clutch release ( which made it easy installing the 1.4 motor and 1.4 clutch) so im assuming that would mean mine is one of these later "normal 10"s with the later type box.

    Cheers for the Info

    Jensen

    My memory is getting bad! Ratios for the normal 10 and 10S are identical, first and second only changed with the 1300 motor.

    Gear ratios:
    1st 3.61:1
    2nd 2.25:1
    3rd 1.48:1
    4th 1.03:1
    Reverse 3.07:1
    Diff 4.125:1

    Now with your car, it may have a small plate in the boot saying it is built to comply with Australian Design Rules, that denotes it as 1970 build. Then again I have seen some 1970 build cars without ADR compliance plates too....

    R10's have an oval plate number of below 576,xxx

    R10S's have an oval plate number above 578,xxx
    Last edited by Simon; 25th June 2004 at 06:31 PM.

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Ok Simon

    My oval plate number is 572 7xx(somethingsomething) and it doesnt have any adr plate. Just a plate saying "This car has seat belt anchorage points BS AU 48 1965". Does this make it 1970 or maybe late 1969?

    It definetly had the late bell housing, clutch mechanism.

    I put the gear ratios into a calculator on the web http://pw1.netcom.com/~sgalaba/mph.htm

    Using standard tyres and rims:

    Engine Speed (RPM) Speed (MPH)
    8000= 131.66
    7500= 123.43
    7000= 115.2
    6500= 106.97
    6000= 98.75
    5500= 90.52
    5000= 82.29
    4500= 74.06
    4000= 65.83
    3500= 57.6
    3000= 49.37
    2500= 41.14
    2000= 32.92
    1500= 24.69
    1000= 16.46

    So 100kph should be around 3700rpm.

    Cheers Simon for the ratios

    Jensen

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Which means I was driving my R10 about with an inaccurate tacho as well as the speedo, or I was constantly doing 65+ MPH - I think the latter is more likely though...
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jensen
    My oval plate number is 572 7xx(somethingsomething) and it doesnt have any adr plate. Just a plate saying "This car has seat belt anchorage points BS AU 48 1965". Does this make it 1970 or maybe late 1969?
    That oval plate number would appear to place it as a 1970 build car. My guess that the engine number would be 86xxxx.

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    Default Radio-CD fitting in 8/10 cars

    My recollection clearly is that they often fitted radios into the upper, left hand glove compartment, not that it was aesthetically too pleasing.

    My R8 R1130 had a radio in the RH lower space as discussed in an early message when we bought it, but it was a small one. I now have a newer and slightly longer radio hung under the centre of the dash which actually works very well.

    I have two speakers mounted on the rear part of the wheelarches in the outside corners just below the level of the lower dashboard panel, and that works well too as they are out of the way of feet.

    Given the ambient noise levels in these cars, I'm realistic about sound quality. Quantity close to my ears is important though, when listening and driving......

    Cheers

    John

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