Anyone Run Wide 15" Wheels?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Default Anyone Run Wide 15" Wheels?

    G'day,

    Has anyone run wide 15 inch wheels on a R8/10, either on the road or track? What size tyre did you go for? My wheels came with 195/60 tyres on it but the fronts scrubbed a bit on full lock. Thinking of goin 185/55 although 195/50 seem more common, interested to hear what other people thought of the handling properties/differences, i found with the 195/60 even with well worn rubber the thing held on like nothing else at least in the dry, wet was a different story though....

    Jensen

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    I'm running 4.5" (10S) rims with 185 x 15 tyres on my 10. Not sure of the profile but it would not be below 60 at least, might even be 70s. They are Michelin Certis from memory

    I have no trouble except on extreme lock (which is mostly low speed car park type stuff anyway).

    There is still enough room to go one size up I would have thought (to 195) in terms of room under the guards front and rear, but from there widening the guards would be necessary I would have thought.

    When I bought the car it had 185 or 195/60 x 13's on it, on rewelded steel (r10) wheels.

    I do remember an article (on Katriina's website) about taking care with the steering box and steering links though as it can put more stress on components - particularly hitting potholes, gutters etc.

    KB

  3. #3
    Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10
    I'm running 4.5" (10S) rims with 185 x 15 tyres on my 10. Not sure of the profile but it would not be below 60 at least, might even be 70s. They are Michelin Certis from memory

    I have no trouble except on extreme lock (which is mostly low speed car park type stuff anyway).

    There is still enough room to go one size up I would have thought (to 195) in terms of room under the guards front and rear, but from there widening the guards would be necessary I would have thought.

    When I bought the car it had 185 or 195/60 x 13's on it, on rewelded steel (r10) wheels.

    I do remember an article (on Katriina's website) about taking care with the steering box and steering links though as it can put more stress on components - particularly hitting potholes, gutters etc.

    KB
    Did I read the above correctly?? 185/70x15 tyres on the original 4.5 inch rims??? That would be way too wide. I thought the minimum wheel width for a 4.5 inch rim was 175/70, the 185 combination being wide, baggy and leading to poor handling from the car rolling around on the side wall. 195's on a 4.5 inch rim would be even more dangerous.

    The warning on the steering was mainly due to changing the lengths of the steering arms for quicker steering, the excess forces fatigue the mountings and virtually rip the rack from its mounts on the chassis.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Reno17's Avatar
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    185 on a 4.5" rim thats crazy
    1967 1135 R8 Gordini
    2012 BMW One Series M Coupe

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Right - just been out to the garage to doublecheck; been busy getting my R8 blueslipped today and getting the paperwork ready for rego.

    On my R10, I am indeed running 185 Michelin certis, however they are 65 profile not 70 (I did say I wasn't sure in the earlier post). They are 185/65R15 on 4.5" rims. I don't have any issues or problems with them.

    KB

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    I think my rims are 15x6. I measured the width with tape measure, i assume you don't include the outer lip bit, just the main section? I was told the rims were made by Colliers but the owner i bought them off was into holdens not frogs so they had no moe details on them. Given that 195/50 and 185/55 seem to be pretty common ( havent seen many 185 in larger profiles??) what size do people think would be best in terms of handling/grip?

    Jensen

  7. #7
    Member R10 Rich's Avatar
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    15"s on a R10. Cool!!
    I run the old fashioned pram tires on my R10. I had a breif look into fitting wider wheels but didn't get very far. My Dad says he put fatties on his R10 about 20 years ago and it 'just wasn't the same'. It had quite a different ride, with no improvement in the wet.
    From what I gather you would need to change the suspention set up if you really wanted to make big wheels work.

    As for bigger wheels putting more stress on the front end, watch out! I have bent my front end just by hitting potholes, and I am running the pram wheels remember. This could be a significant problem with wider wheels, hence, suspension mods.
    Sorry I don't have any other info but, do let us know how you go Jensen.

    Wide wheels on R10s look phat!
    <--- The avatar looks just like my R10 with a strip

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    R10 Rich,

    i had the wide 15" rims and tyres on for like 3 months but had to take them off when i bent two of them. suspension didnt feel bad or anything, different to the 135's but seem to feel more stable, prob ue to extra weight of the wheels. The wide 15's look 10 times better than widened 13 or 14 steelies coz they fill the guard and from the side look standard except for the deep dish. ppl thought they did look pretty mean on the 10.

    Hey in a couple of months once ive painted the car etc, we should take the R10's out for a spin. Havent really gone for a drive with other r8's 10's. I think there is also another R10 on p plates kicken around Melbourne??

    Jensen

  9. #9
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jensen
    G'day,

    Has anyone run wide 15 inch wheels on a R8/10, either on the road or track? What size tyre did you go for? My wheels came with 195/60 tyres on it but the fronts scrubbed a bit on full lock. Thinking of goin 185/55 although 195/50 seem more common, interested to hear what other people thought of the handling properties/differences, i found with the 195/60 even with well worn rubber the thing held on like nothing else at least in the dry, wet was a different story though....

    Jensen
    The direct answer to your question from me is NO.

    Personally, and it is my view, not a judgement on your view, is that the character of these cars, and the way they drive, is in large part due to the combination of suspension characteristics and tyre size (hence steering weight and feel). So I wouldn't contemplate what you are doing.

    These cars are very reliable and well engineered. They are not engineered for extreme tyre sizes for all the reasons that others have covered. R8 Gordinis might have been very successful, for example, but they changed plenty of components regularly in recognition of fragility I'd say.....

    JohnW

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
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    Im running 13" x 5.5" Cosmic rims with 175/60/13 Dunlop Fumula Rs

    I was told by quite a few people "in the know" that if you want to make a rear engined Renault handle get rid of the 15s and replace with 13s. It has certainly worked in my case.

    We have approximately 120hp and we push the car very hard on tarmac rallies, hillclimbs and sprints with no grip problems. I would only consider wider rubber if we had more power.

    Interesting also that all the period after market wheels made for these cars (eg Delta Mics, Cosmics, etc) were 13" and the racing/modified Alpines A110s were all fitted with 13" as well.

    Ross

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Ross,

    Ive got a set of Cosmics that i was going to use but being 13" i thought it would lower the gearing so much it would be no good on the highway (its just a road car). To get anywhere near the same rolling radius as the 15''s i would need 185/70R13 or 175/75R13 which are pretty massive profiles which i thought might make the handling feel worse if anything (sloppy, unresponsive).

    What type of Cosmics are on the dauphine? The early ones that have the right offset for R8's etc or the later ones for R12's,17's. Mine are the later ones which ive seen and been told will fit with use of spacers, possible longer studs and a shave of brake cooling fins. There is an R1134 in Canberra that i think has them on (calling BogMaster!! im sure u would know this car).

    Ross what did you need to do to fit them on the Dauph?

    (Heres a pic of the sort i have (from Aus R15/17 Website)

    Jensen
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone Run Wide 15&quot; Wheels?-cosmic.jpg  

  12. #12
    Simon's Avatar
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    Try this tyre calculator to work out the equivalent size tyre for the gearing.

    http://www.tyresave.co.uk/tyresize.html

    I wouldn't really use the 15/17 Cosmics on the 8/10, as the offset is quite different. Even using longer studs, spacers etc would not compensate for the difference and would probably load up the wheel bearings and cause other front end problems.

    185/70 and 175/75 tyres would probably be around the optimum size for a 5.5 inch rim without having too much bag in the sidewalls that would affect the handling if using an even wider tyre.

    I'm with Ross really, I would have thought that using the extra wide rubber on the 15 inch rim would not lower the C of G as much as using the 13" rims. The handling on the wide 15" rims is likely to be inferior in the absence of lowering the car on the springs. The greater grip of the wider tyres would probably make the car more likely to tend towards snap oversteer, which with the higher ride height of unaltered springs on 15 rims make the car less controllable and more prone to swing axle roll over because of the slightly higher C of G (over a car on 13" rims) to a certain degree.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    Try this tyre calculator to work out the equivalent size tyre for the gearing.

    http://www.tyresave.co.uk/tyresize.html

    I wouldn't really use the 15/17 Cosmics on the 8/10, as the offset is quite different. Even using longer studs, spacers etc would not compensate for the difference and would probably load up the wheel bearings and cause other front end problems.

    185/70 and 175/75 tyres would probably be around the optimum size for a 5.5 inch rim without having too much bag in the sidewalls that would affect the handling if using an even wider tyre.

    I'm with Ross really, I would have thought that using the extra wide rubber on the 15 inch rim would not lower the C of G as much as using the 13" rims. The handling on the wide 15" rims is likely to be inferior in the absence of lowering the car on the springs. The greater grip of the wider tyres would probably make the car more likely to tend towards snap oversteer, which with the higher ride height of unaltered springs on 15 rims make the car less controllable and more prone to swing axle roll over because of the slightly higher C of G (over a car on 13" rims) to a certain degree.
    Simon,
    Have you looked through that website you got the tire calculator off???
    Go back to the main/home page from there. Then...
    Go to the site index section, scroll down the left hand side, and there is a section for 3-stud Citroen and Peugeot and Smart cars. I wonder what the pcd ? of these wheels are Could be the same as an old Renault
    Little expensive though. Scrub that......price is for set of 4.Worth looking into.
    Last edited by HONG KONG PUGGY; 29th June 2004 at 09:24 PM.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jensen
    Ross,

    There is an R1134 in Canberra that i think has them on (calling BogMaster!! im sure u would know this car).

    Ross what did you need to do to fit them on the Dauph?

    (Heres a pic of the sort i have (from Aus R15/17 Website)

    Jensen
    OK Those mags sit on some custom turned spacers created by Rob Seally (sorry if I have spelled you name incorrectly Rob). They are aluminium spacers which bolt neatly to the original studs and have three studs of their own for attaching the rim. This works fine but I'm not convinced that they aren't too wide and that the handling is vastly improved .. they do look great though.

    The owner recently tested the set up in a classic rally event in the Snowies. I didn't go...mainly because I believe at my advanced age that driving a G hard is a death wish. Anyway the vehicle performed well and the mag set up was not a problem.

    Hope this helps.
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
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    Mine are the early Cosmics with the right offset for the R 8/10 hubs.

    Therefore I had to do very little to get them to fit, only a bit of filing on the front caliper fins. Definitely NO spacers. Not allowed for racing over here.

    As for gearing you are right, it does make the gearing quite high, 60 series tyres is about 24km/1000rpm in top. So 4,000rpm means 96kph.
    Depends what you use it for, great for town driving and getting away from the lights, not so good for motorway cruising.
    70 series tyres would give you about 26/27km/1000rpm

    Ross

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Rob's spacers are really like an extension of the hub. The spacer is turned from aluminium and bolts to the hub using the wheel nuts - these are recessed into the body of the spacer. The spacer then has three studs of its own on to which you bolt the road wheel. It's all very professional, neat and strong.

    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  17. #17
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    Just to add my two cents worth, I definitely recommend fitting wider wheels to an R10. I had some made up for mine from original rims. I had the centres cut down to fit a 14x5 in rim. These look great with the stock hub caps. To these I had 175/60 tyres on the front and 185/65 on the rear. With this combination, there was no affect on gearing at all and no scrubbing. I also had a sports steering wheel of smaller diameter. The steering was not heavy and the car was much more stable in crosswinds and all other situations I can think of. Before I sold the car, I took these items off and took it back to standard. The car felt decidedly dangerous on the standard bike tyres and large steering wheel. If you are going to drive it every day, safety is the number one priority. Those 135 michelin x's are very old and pretty poor on grip, not to mention getting hard to replace. By using 14 in rims you can go with easily purchased and inexpensive tyres that have real grip.

    By the way, I have the wheels for sale if you are interested. Even if you aren't, go with 14 in rims.

  18. #18
    Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djkirk
    By the way, I have the wheels for sale if you are interested. Even if you aren't, go with 14 in rims.
    Where are you, before I ask the price.

    I'm sort of half interested as I looked at using 14" R16 centres with a 5.5" rim before I found some new Michelin 145's, but they will probably last a while, hence the half hearted interest.

  19. #19
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    I am in sunbury, melbourne. The wheels cost $90 a piece to have made. I'll sell the 4 for $200 with the 175 tyres for the front thrown in. The wheels are in good condition, as are the tyres. I took the 185 tyres to put on the front of my fuego.

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