R19 flywheel bolts - reuse or replace?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default R19 flywheel bolts - reuse or replace?

    Hi all,
    Am in the process of replacing the clutch in my R19.(fun,fun,fun!).
    Does the manufacturer recommend replacing the flywheel bolts?
    I was planning to reuse the bolts with some blue Loctite (243), but
    would like to hear another opinion on this.

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    Thanks
    Spiz

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Reuse with loctite - they are not like headbolts (even those I never replace on Renos...)
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  3. #3
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    They ARE like headbolts, actually, and are meant to be replaced, but the strong version Loctite should be OK.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    They ARE like headbolts, actually, and are meant to be replaced, but the strong version Loctite should be OK.
    Really? Well, you learn something new every day I've never seen it mentioned in workshop manuals though

    But Froggy bolts are made of better stuff than say an EA Falcon headbolt I have used the same head bolts on an R10 engine half a dozen times with no ill effects, and the head has been off the R25 at least twice and its fine....
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  5. #5
    Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    Really? Well, you learn something new every day I've never seen it mentioned in workshop manuals though

    But Froggy bolts are made of better stuff than say an EA Falcon headbolt I have used the same head bolts on an R10 engine half a dozen times with no ill effects, and the head has been off the R25 at least twice and its fine....
    Why has the head been off half a dozen times on the 10, or twice on the 25? Either covering a lot of k's between rebuilds, or is it that the headbolts are slowly stretching through age?? :-)

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    Why has the head been off half a dozen times on the 10, or twice on the 25? Either covering a lot of k's between rebuilds, or is it that the headbolts are slowly stretching through age?? :-)
    I was waiting for that

    The R10 was a bush bomb that I had when I was a kid - found it rotting under a tree and took a few goes to learn how to do a head properly (I Have even used a headgasket twice successfully on that car!!)
    Had ongoing troubles with spark plug threads stripping, exhaust valves burning out (from running as a rally car on the bush tracks on crap fuel ), burning out again (cos the valve head was cut too much when refaced) etc etc. Its what I learnt to fix cars. Great fun - lost count of the times I span it, crashed it into the scrub etc etc

    The R25 had the classic oil leak from the head, and I tried to be tricky and use a bit of extra sealant on the area on the head gasket that goes - bad idea - it leaked again pretty quickly, so I had to do it again
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  7. #7
    farmerdave
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    6 bolts aren't expensive, but an escaping flywheel definitely could cause some damage .

    Farmerdave

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerdave
    6 bolts aren't expensive, but an escaping flywheel definitely could cause some damage .

    Farmerdave
    Very true! But they are not done up super tight, dont have the temperature/expansion extremes a head bolt has, and I have never ever seen them replaced as a matter of course.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
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    Hey, this thread is funny (only to me) !!!

    In all my time as a professional mechanic I cant remember a reused flywheel bolt breaking in normal operations, although as "insurance" I have renewed bolts in high performance (racing) engines.

    However, going back about 35 years ago, I was watching my cousin assemble a "hot" engine and he was bolting on the flywheel. I was taking the piss about his bolts only being at about 35 ft/lbs (or something) when my Morris Minor (Yay!) flywheel bolts were torqued to 45 ft/lbs. He was retorting with the explanation that his engine was of such an excellent design - when one of the bolts snapped off while he was torquing it !!!

    What was he assembling ??? - a Renault 750 engine !!!

    OK - you had to be there.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordman
    What was he assembling ??? - a Renault 750 engine !!!

    OK - you had to be there.
    'tis alright - we are not all completly one eyed enough to believe froggy cars are perfect in every way
    The flywheel bolt that takes the most stress in our family fleet is on the NSU Ro80 - it is a big single bolt on the end of the eccentric shaft that is done up to 350 pounds!! Never replaced one of those either....

    What sort of Morrie? We had a low light side valve one on the farm for a while, but never got around to restoring so sold it someone who would. Fun little car! (on a side side note, I saw a Morrie in Wales once that had Victorian number plates on it!! Seems the Poms like us for the supply of rust free pommy cars we have!)
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    The flywheel bolt that takes the most stress in our family fleet is on the NSU Ro80 - it is a big single bolt on the end of the eccentric shaft that is done up to 350 pounds!! Never replaced one of those either....
    If that bolt is similar to the VW flywheel gland nut which is done up to a similar torque, that is one that is supposed to be replaced each time.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    If that bolt is similar to the VW flywheel gland nut which is done up to a similar torque, that is one that is supposed to be replaced each time.
    I would say so (and probably from the same bolt supplier in Deutchsland) - Dad has rebuilt a few of the NSU Wankels over years in the various Ro80s we have had, and they never were replced and were all fine. Didnt even worry too much about the torque - just lent on it with a big extension bar and estimated in lieu of a torque wrench that could read that much torque. Not the best practice I know, but its worked fine.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  13. #13
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    mistareno's Avatar
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    Ahhh, the F.T method of nut tightening

    I know it well....

  14. #14
    Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    I would say so (and probably from the same bolt supplier in Deutchsland) - Dad has rebuilt a few of the NSU Wankels over years in the various Ro80s we have had, and they never were replced and were all fine. Didnt even worry too much about the torque - just lent on it with a big extension bar and estimated in lieu of a torque wrench that could read that much torque. Not the best practice I know, but its worked fine.
    I borrowed (and then returned) a nifty tool that operated on the flywheel gear multiplying the torque to do the one on a VW. And thinking about it the bolt would likely be different, as the VW nut has a bearing in the centre to support the input shaft, the NSU would have a torque converter instead which would mean the nut is probably quite different.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    the NSU would have a torque converter instead which would mean the nut is probably quite different.
    Wow!! Someone who even knows what an Ro80 is is rare enough, but to know it runs a torque converter before the clutch is even rarer. Its nice to know I'm not alone in knowing about obscure cars

    The R080 probably uses the same nut as the semi auto Beetles that would have had a drive plate to attach a torque converter to
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  16. #16
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    Hey Haakon, I think loads of people on this forum would know Ro80's! I saw a whole field full of them on Wales about ten years back, too...I've mentioned it before to you.

    As for the flywheel bolts, wasn't suggesting I'd replace them - in fact, I've never replaced any had bolts either - always reused them. (Except once, my first Cooper S head work I'd ever done. Mr Haynes told me they were all 50 lb/ft, but neglected to mention that the extra (much thinner) head bolt Cooper S models have was only tightened to 25 lb/ft. No wonder it creeeeeeked just before snapping! Ah well, I WAS only 18...

    Stuey

  17. #17
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    Wow!! Someone who even knows what an Ro80 is is rare enough, but to know it runs a torque converter before the clutch is even rarer. Its nice to know I'm not alone in knowing about obscure cars
    We knew that. Wonderful cars, Ro80s. Shame NSU died in the birth.

    JohnW

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    I think you'll find that the contempary rotary engines carried on with NSU's set up and have one large flywheel bolt done up .tight.
    I believe the trick is to use a scaffold pole when undoing the flywheel bolt.

    Ren
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

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