1967 US R10 getting a Turbo Fuego swap
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Thread: 1967 US R10 getting a Turbo Fuego swap

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default 1967 US R10 getting a Turbo Fuego swap

    I have been running my 1108cc reverse flow on EFI and EDIS(megasquirt) and have finally collected enough parts to pull the car off the road and get my 1565cc turbo motor installed. Currently, my plan is:


    • Swap the input shaft and bellhousing from my r16 336 into the 330(this is what I gather I should swap over. If anyone has more insight on this, Id love to hear it.)
    • Run a VW Scirocco radiator in the front.
    • Run the jenveys on the DCOE Manifold I have.
    • build a plenum and an intercooler mounted bellow the rear deck grill.
    • Run a small T3 turbo from a volvo


    I also have the ng3 from the Fuego, as well as an ng5 5speed from a r5 gt turbo. However, this is going to take a bit more engineering that I dont want to take on until the swap is done.

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    We go to laguna seca and Sears Point regularly and you really cant get any where in California without driving on the freeway, so my goal is to have my r10 be able to do 70mph without too much stress on the motor, and be able to keep up with modified 2002s and 510s .

    Anyway, I'd love to hear some feedback, as there arent many classic french sports car enthusiasts state-side


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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    so your mirage two wheeler is rear engine seven speed,to make it go like a mirage fighter you may need a beefed up driveline...just a thought .......jim

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    What are the inlet manifolds and fuel injected carbies? Where did you source them? I have a Type 841 motor (ex R18) that is similar to my A5L motor in my Fuego Turbo and was thinking of just having carbies (injected or otherwise) in lieu of a pressurised carbie as used on the Fuego Turbo.

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    They're Jenvey DCOE Style Throttle Bodies. They have the injector bungs built in. I found a Mangoletsi A110 1600 Manifold on ebay.uk for maybe 200$ USD. I have had to add vacuum ports to each runner to combine for the MAP signal.

    IMG_4146.JPG

    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    What are the inlet manifolds and fuel injected carbies? Where did you source them? I have a Type 841 motor (ex R18) that is similar to my A5L motor in my Fuego Turbo and was thinking of just having carbies (injected or otherwise) in lieu of a pressurised carbie as used on the Fuego Turbo.

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    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dacia4x4 View Post
    so your mirage two wheeler is rear engine seven speed,to make it go like a mirage fighter you may need a beefed up driveline...just a thought .......jim
    So I'm not the only one imagining a chain from the crank to the bike sprockets

    Looks like some fun for you Godzilla! You will gain a lot of insight from Brett's R8 thread R8 upgrade project
    cheers,

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-man View Post
    So I'm not the only one imagining a chain from the crank to the bike sprockets

    Looks like some fun for you Godzilla! You will gain a lot of insight from Brett's R8 thread R8 upgrade project
    I nearly added a post, then wondered whether it was only my sense of humour, but there are others that thought the same. Great.

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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Nice project lying ahead!!

    The swap of the input shaft is correct and easy to do if you can get the roll pin out. The splines inside the 2 gearboxes are the same so it is just s swap. The spline differences are only at the clutch end. For safety you can check that the bellhousing oilseal lines up with the input shaft seal surface. I think they do but can't remember.

    Radiator ok.

    I'm not sure about the Fuego motor's size but I built a Gordini turbo in a Gordini and kept the radiator plate but fitted the intercooler in the radiator opening and I also kept the fan for the intercooler. I see that you have a pulley in front that could maybe drive a fan for the intercooler if it can all fit in there.

    That is about all I can say.

    Regards, Frans.
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    R10 roundeye. Great, my first car was one of these.

    I used to commute in it daily doing 130km/h (don't remember the revs) and it was a bit noisy. Don't think the engine was too stressed though. Renault engines are rev happy, maybe not quite like a Honda, but still, never had any problems. That said, a 5 speeder 'box would have brought the revs down enough to make the commute more quiet. Do you have a 5 speed in it now? What kind of revs do you see at 70 miles/h?
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    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi Godzilla, with your clutch input shaft,when fitting r16 shaft you may need to check spigot bearing end support for depth.As I found with my r8g 1565 fitting many years ago I had to press the sleeve along the r16 shaft five or six millimetres as the shaft was not protruding enough to enter the spigot bearing in end of crankshaft.....just a thought ...jim

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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    With the input shaft you need to be sure there is around 10 mm protruding beyond the front of the bell housing to go into the bearing in the flywheel. I have moved the sleeve on the input shaft on some cars to give that protrusion. You also need to seal up where the old clutch cable went at the bottom, and put a 10mm bolt in this position.

    Next thing you will find is breaking the sun wheel outputs in the 330 gearbox. I broke 9 in about 5 years, but this can be rectified with fitting of the internals of a 16 box, which also gives a 3.77 diff ratio rather than the 4.11 of the standard 330.

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    Thanks everyone for the replies. I'll be sure to read through that build, thanks J-man.

    schlitzaugen, its the 330 4speed currently. its 3500-4000rpms at speed. I dont think the 688 had any problems running fast(I did quite a few 5+ hr trips at 65-70mph) but the racket and vibration was a bit rough. I ordered some new motor mounts as well

    Frans, I was thinking id try a dental pick to pull the input shaft without splitting the case, but after hearing about swapping the sun gear and the shaft length, I might just split the box and put the 336 innards in the 330.

    alan moore, 3.77 final will give me a bit less revvs at highway speeds too, so thats great.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    That's quite a big change in gearing, you will lose acceleration and will have to rev it harder on take off. But you will never know what happens unless you try.

    I swapped g'boxes on my old BMWs (a 1970 NK sedan and a 1969 2000C coupe) and it made a lot of difference at cruising speeds. Good especially for crossing Australia. First gear however was the same. Much more relaxed cruising with five speeds.
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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    There is an 11mm? plate that has to be put on one side of the case to allow the wider diff to fit with the larger output sun wheels, and then you need to respline the uni joints. It has all been done before, but isn’t “plug and play”.

    My Renault 4CV ran a 13 dead 1/4 mile with a 3.77 ratio diff and modded n/a 807 engine. The taller ratio is not such a worry when the car only weighs 650kg. The standard 330 gearbox will stand a fair bit of abuse, just don’t launch it hard in first gear.

    With a soft start and standard gearbox with the same engine that is in the 4cv in an R8 , I ran a 14.6 quarter. I had broken so many gearboxes in that car, 13 in all. In the end I could pull out the gearbox, repair it, and have it back in the car in 8 hours without a hoist.

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    I see. I seem to recall a thread on here describing the steps. I'll try to dig it up.

    A 4cv with an 807 sounds like a rocket!



    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    There is an 11mm? plate that has to be put on one side of the case to allow the wider diff to fit with the larger output sun wheels, and then you need to respline the uni joints. It has all been done before, but isn’t “plug and play”.

    My Renault 4CV ran a 13 dead 1/4 mile with a 3.77 ratio diff and modded n/a 807 engine. The taller ratio is not such a worry when the car only weighs 650kg. The standard 330 gearbox will stand a fair bit of abuse, just don’t launch it hard in first gear.

    With a soft start and standard gearbox with the same engine that is in the 4cv in an R8 , I ran a 14.6 quarter. I had broken so many gearboxes in that car, 13 in all. In the end I could pull out the gearbox, repair it, and have it back in the car in 8 hours without a hoist.

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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi Godzilla,

    The mod to put 16TS internals into R8/R10 boxes are very successful. I have definitely gained reliability and better lap times with my conversion and so has Ross with his. The loss of acceleration with the 3.7 ratio is negligible and as a person, I couldn't feel the difference sitting in the car. On our local track's straight I used to go into the rev limiter about 3/4 way and then when I put the modified gearbox in it stopped that and is still picking up speed towards the end of the straight.

    I cannot comment on the sun gears because I have a locked diff with my own output shafts.

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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    There is 2 ways modifying the gearbox. When I did Ross's gearbox way back in about 2003/4 I didn't know anybody that has done it before and I made it my own way as a symmetrical "big Box" with 2 x 6mm spacers on either side. This is to take the new bigger diff. It works as good as anything else and has powered both Ross's Dauphines over a 14 year period. The last Dauphine is now racing in Japan still with the same box.

    The other way that is working as well is by adding 1 x 12mm spacer on one side only but then you'll have to mount the engine and gearbox unit 6mm to one side to get an even spacing of the rear wheels in the wheel cavity. I don't think the 6mm side way shift will affect anything.

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    Thanks Frans, this is great info. Another thing I'm a bit unclear on is if there is a difference between the r16TS 336 and the 336 I have. It came from an r16 with an 821.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    There is 2 ways modifying the gearbox. When I did Ross's gearbox way back in about 2003/4 I didn't know anybody that has done it before and I made it my own way as a symmetrical "big Box" with 2 x 6mm spacers on either side. This is to take the new bigger diff. It works as good as anything else and has powered both Ross's Dauphines over a 14 year period. The last Dauphine is now racing in Japan still with the same box.

    The other way that is working as well is by adding 1 x 12mm spacer on one side only but then you'll have to mount the engine and gearbox unit 6mm to one side to get an even spacing of the rear wheels in the wheel cavity. I don't think the 6mm side way shift will affect anything.

    Frans

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Frans, from what I gather the 12mm offset is to accommodate the wider R16 diff cluster, but you have to move the crown wheel sideways somehow to keep the mesh right. How did you do it?
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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Ross has done a thread on this a long time ago. You can read this thread and I did some drawings and explanations on what I did. Print the explanation and then work it out according to the Notes.

    Remember this is just my way as I went along with the mod unknowing of the other method. I like mine better because of the uniformity on both sides. It might be more work to do it this way.

    R16 internals in R8 Casing

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    Frans and Reidar, thanks for those links. Its pretty cool how compatible renault seem to be over the years.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Thanks Frans, I found the .doc files, but the pictures are missing. Anyway, I think I understand what you've done and this was just for curiosity sake.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    @Godzilla: The thread I linked to were made by Lotus Europe specialist Richard Mann. At the same time he made up a badge of universal joints splined for R16 differential. I bought a pair and they look exelent. Not sure but he might still have a pair left..

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    A piece needs to be added here, as it is not in any of the others.

    It has always been a problem to get to the roll pin on the input shaft. Many years ago (back in ZA), we started putting a hole in the RH casing and tapping it with a M8 thread. This allows a thin punch to be used to knock out or reinstall the pin. The picture is of the method used by Steven Swan, he uses a 1/8 BSP plug. Unfortunately I do not have the dimensions to the center of the hole, but I am sure it can be worked out.


    G-Box RollPin Hole.jpg

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    Geckoeng, I did just that and it worked well. I lined the inside with rags and ran the shop vac as I drilled and tapped to catch the chips.

    Alan Moore, are you talking about this sleeve on the input shaft(see attachment)? As is, the shaft is just about flush with the bell. If i push it out 10mm, there would only be about 10mm left engaged on this spline? I'll have to measure the stack-up to see where I need the shaft to be.
    IMG_4419.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    With the input shaft you need to be sure there is around 10 mm protruding beyond the front of the bell housing to go into the bearing in the flywheel. I have moved the sleeve on the input shaft on some cars to give that protrusion. You also need to seal up where the old clutch cable went at the bottom, and put a 10mm bolt in this position.

    Next thing you will find is breaking the sun wheel outputs in the 330 gearbox. I broke 9 in about 5 years, but this can be rectified with fitting of the internals of a 16 box, which also gives a 3.77 diff ratio rather than the 4.11 of the standard 330.

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