Vel Satis ????
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! French-frog's Avatar
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    Icon4 Vel Satis ????

    Hi Aussies,

    Do you like that ?



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    Vive la France !

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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Sorry, i like the avantime more, shame they dont make em! Wasn't there like 4000 produced??? It would be a pretty cool car to import in a few years (talk about a REAL head turner) They had a Vel Satis at the Sydney motor show 2 or so years ago for evaluation purposes (anyone remember it) What ever happend to it, was it sent back home?

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    Fellow Frogger! French-frog's Avatar
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    What you saying is you cannot find any on your big Ireland > Shame on you ! And about the Avantime it wasn't even a Renault anyway. And the compagnie who made them died because of it....
    Vive la France !

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    We had one at the Melbourne French Car Day in Feb 2003. Road registered and everything - the looks when it drove into the carpark were amazing.

    I liked it. If I had money to burn I would have bought one!

    Derek

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    I'ts hardly what you would call a car wash friendly car. Imagine cleaning the bugs out of all the little impressions on the bumper bar. You wouldn't want a white one........

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    I liked it. If I had money to burn I would have bought one!

    Derek
    You would be burning money if you did buy one, if the trend on Aussie Laguna depreciation was the same for a Vel Satan!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    You would be burning money if you did buy one, if the trend on Aussie Laguna depreciation was the same for a Vel Satan!!
    Tell me about it Simon
    I wasn't particularly serious there!
    Derek.

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    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    I'ts hardly what you would call a car wash friendly car. Imagine cleaning the bugs out of all the little impressions on the bumper bar. You wouldn't want a white one........
    I'd be prepared to live with that - a great successor to the Safrane. I would imagine buyers of the Vel Satis would generally be unlikely to wash the car themselves anyway

    I find it amusing that the R25 was pretty well received, the Safrane seemed to be universally disliked as "boring" and then the Vel Satis seems to be disliked because its "ugly"

    Are we really only able to accept R25 type styling in our cars? ie. standard 2/3 box design?

    The Avantime, which seemed to have a huge amount of detractors at the time, is quite often mentioned now as a rare classic. I'm not sure if this means people changed their opinion as they got used to it, or whether it's another group of people who are now unafraid to speak up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europa
    I'd be prepared to live with that - a great successor to the Safrane. I would imagine buyers of the Vel Satis would generally be unlikely to wash the car themselves anyway
    I suppose I just consider fussy little bumps like that as being rather pointless, sort of like the scrolly patterns that used to be impressed on Japanese car trim back in the 1970's. It is not as if the bumps have a function, sort of hiding parking sensors or the like.

    I suppose I just think of the practical nature of things rather than how a car like that can benefit the economy in providing employment opportunities for car washers! :-)

    I've actually always liked the concept of the Vel Satan as being a larger higher profile car, but it probably doesn't need the fussy bits. Then again without the dots on the bumper I'd probably be saying that it looks like a Besser block on wheels because there is nothing to break up the massive front bumper.......

    I'll just stick to the oldies............

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    Quote Originally Posted by French-frog
    What you saying is you cannot find any on your big Ireland > Shame on you ! And about the Avantime it wasn't even a Renault anyway. And the compagnie who made them died because of it....
    Umm, not entirely correct. The only reason Renault ever produced the Avantime was for Matra's benefit.

    Renault decided it was in it's best interest to build the new espace on a traditional production line. Renault then, in what can only be described as an act of corporate goodwill (as cheesy as that sounds these days), tried to give Matra a lifeline by creating a car that Matra could build for it using Espace technology.

    If anything, they just delayed the winding down of Matra.

    BTW - Matra has been acquried by Pininfarina and is now known as
    Matra Automobile Engineering.

    Pininfarina will probably use their unique technology to produce low volume cars such as this:



    And from their press release:

    “The Enjoy, Pininfarina branded, is an ambitious project: the idea of building an “exclusive” car with a production run of less than a 100, with top design, technical features and performance, combined with detailed craftsmanship, represents an equation that no other manufacturer has managed to pull off. Thanks to the recent acquisition of the engineering, testing and prototyping divisions of Matra Automobile, which has a tried and tested culture in terms of mechanical work, Pininfarina has been able to extend its areas of expertise and become a genuine car manufacturer, turning the Enjoy into an exclusive and innovative product. In order to underline the internationalization of the group, the style as well as the engineering development of the exterior have been performed in Turin, while the interior development has been carried out by the technical staff of Matra Automobile Engineering. The possible production is planned in Matra’s prototyping workshop and final delivery for the lucky few will take place at CERAM, another company of the Pininfarina Group.

    Thanks to the newly acquired technical competencies a further premier has been achieved with the chassis and suspensions development by Matra.The technical solutions are traditional but some of the features are directly derived from the competitions like the front suspensions preloaded and the shock-absorbers dual setting.


    Who knows.....Matra could go on to bigger and better things....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    I suppose I just consider fussy little bumps like that as being rather pointless, sort of like the scrolly patterns that used to be impressed on Japanese car trim back in the 1970's. It is not as if the bumps have a function, sort of hiding parking sensors or the like.
    Well, I guess every car has a concession to styling, it's just a matter of "how much"

    And of course, every person has their own ideas about "too much" or "too little" - very very subjective - there is no right or wrong when it comes to this!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europa
    Well, I guess every car has a concession to styling, it's just a matter of "how much"

    And of course, every person has their own ideas about "too much" or "too little" - very very subjective - there is no right or wrong when it comes to this!
    I guess that's where the market comes into play, the car either sells or it doesn't!

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    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I actually love the vel satis and went in one when i was in paris....fantastic car, I couldnt beleive it when it pulled up and i got in. Id have one in a second, most likely the only young guy in australia that would have one. Pity i can never afford one.
    Yes the depreciation is quite scary stuff....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    I guess that's where the market comes into play, the car either sells or it doesn't!
    Well yes and no, but styling is only a component of the overall package.

    It's all very well to have a car that looks like a Ferrari, but if it has a 2 speed automatic and a 500cc engine, it won't sell either.

    Likewise, remember with something like a Vel Satis, chances are a lot of owners may have it as a company car (possibly no choice on their behalf) or on a lease arrangement. So there maybe drivers out there who don't like the styling at all, but the sale has been made as far as Renault is concerned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europa
    Well yes and no, but styling is only a component of the overall package.

    It's all very well to have a car that looks like a Ferrari, but if it has a 2 speed automatic and a 500cc engine, it won't sell either.

    Likewise, remember with something like a Vel Satis, chances are a lot of owners may have it as a company car (possibly no choice on their behalf) or on a lease arrangement. So there maybe drivers out there who don't like the styling at all, but the sale has been made as far as Renault is concerned.
    But if a car fails to have appeal to the general market place, it falls out of bed depreciation wise and the financiers in the case of company cars steer clear when the residuals blow out.

    You then end up with the Mitsubishi Magna and Series 1 EA Falcon effect, company cars that have no appeal in the general secondhand market place, the resulting poor perception of the car based mainly on styling, affects the rest of the range. Fleet sales alone will not support a manufacturer, even Ford AUS realised that, they dropped the taxi version in their BA range to reduce the perception that all Falcons are taxi's.

    In no way am I drawing parallels between a Vel Satis and a Magna, as I've no idea on the engineering, sales and residuals of the Vel Satis in its market places. But I'd imagine that Renault would be more concerned with secondhand and private purchaser appeal as well rather than just shoving cars out of the door as fleet sales.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    But if a car fails to have appeal to the general market place, it falls out of bed depreciation wise and the financiers in the case of company cars steer clear when the residuals blow out.

    You then end up with the Mitsubishi Magna and Series 1 EA Falcon effect, company cars that have no appeal in the general secondhand market place, the resulting poor perception of the car based mainly on styling, affects the rest of the range. Fleet sales alone will not support a manufacturer, even Ford AUS realised that, they dropped the taxi version in their BA range to reduce the perception that all Falcons are taxi's.

    In no way am I drawing parallels between a Vel Satis and a Magna, as I've no idea on the engineering, sales and residuals of the Vel Satis in its market places. But I'd imagine that Renault would be more concerned with secondhand and private purchaser appeal as well rather than just shoving cars out of the door as fleet sales.
    I think BMW is trying something similar with the new styling of the 7 & 5 series. Lots of people expressing discontent there (also things like the iDrive system inside the car) Wonder what the depreciation is/will be like on those?

    I think the point is, Renault had to do SOMETHING different than make yet another Safrane. From what I have heard, Safranes didn't hold their value either. So conservative styling does not neccessarily translate into slow depreciation. I don't think Renault set out to make an "ugly" car that would become a flop, more like they wanted to produce something to turn peoples heads. Right or wrong, at least it's not forgettable!

    But of course, we are back to the old problem. People don't like big, expensive, luxo-barge French cars. At least not for the last 30 years or so.
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    Fellow Frogger! French-frog's Avatar
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    What about the comparaison between the Vel Satis and the 607? What do u think? Of course the 607 is a bit older but it's gonna get a facelift soon..
    Vive la France !

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    Well, i think the 607 is very attractive, and the Vel Satis won an award for being the most understeering car on sale in Britain .

    I don't mind the Vel Satis, but I think they need to facelift the front. It is looking a little boxy now. When I sat in one at the Melbourn FCD I was very impressed by the quality of it. I wish I had gone in one while I was in Paris last year, although they weren't as common as 607s and Mercedes E-Class when it came to taxis.
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    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Well, I've seen one Vel Satis in the flesh, and maybe 2 607's.

    The 607's impressed me in an anonymous, grown up 407 kind of way. However it is worth noting that my reasonably car knowledgable passenger at the time didn't even spot the thing, nor was he aware of the significance of the model.

    Still, at least you can buy them here, unlike VS
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    what would happen if Renault started bringing them here in tiny numbers for really keen or rich people you think???

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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    what would happen if Renault started bringing them here in tiny numbers for really keen or rich people you think???
    Refer current Laguna sales as an indicator of how as prices increase Renault passenger car sales fall off.......

    If Renault were considering a hero car for AUS a Clio V6 would probably be a good place to start, but even those would be sold in tiny numbers, with likely little profit then the hassle of supporting such a small number of cars through the existing dealer outlet. The Duttons imported RS Spiders indicated that there was a very limited market for a niche sports car, and those cars don't seem to have suffered resale wise mainly because of their limited number and spectacular appearance.

    The Vel Satan if sold in AUS, not being specialised or a sports car would be a very limited seller and be punished resale wise IMO.

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