Custom 16TS shafts
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Thread: Custom 16TS shafts

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Custom 16TS shafts

    Hi all from Ireland,
    I'm building a historic race car (Davrian Mk8) with a Renault Crossflow engine and box. After some great insight into these engines a couple of years ago on this forum, I tracked down the famous Salv Sacco and now have a full race spec Salv Sacco 1795cc engine ready to go into the car mated to a rebuilt 365 gearbox. These cars were originally built using Hillman Imp parts so I recently got a pair of custom halfshafts made with Renault Inners, inner and outer CV joints and Imp outer stubs. The Renault inners were made to match a sample one that I had but because it's new it seems to be a very tight fit getting it onto the output splines of the box so I'm wondering if this is common for new shafts and how hard I can tap them in without damaging the differential? 20191220_224436.jpg20191220_224451.jpg. Thanks

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    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    The inner should slide on quite easily by hand with some lubrication.

    Are you running the original seal setup (which seals onto the driveshaft) or the later design which seals onto the outdrives (and corresponding longer outdrives)?
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    Thanks. It's very tight so will try to heat the inners up first to see if I can get a little more tolerance. The seals are between the casing and the outer diameter of the inner shafts so I guess the only risk with heating them too much is that the heat will damage the surface of the seals!

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    Have you checked that the "sample one" that you had actually fits onto your rebuilt gearbox's output splines?

    Sounds to me as if very careful measurements are needed to confirm that your driveshafts are actually correct.

    If you can only get them on by heating the inners, how will you ever get them off? Or will that be someone else's problem ?

    Cheers

    Alec
    Last edited by Armidillo; 22nd December 2019 at 10:40 AM.

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    COL
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    Like Jensen from my experience the drive shafts slide on by hand, but having said that I have never fitted brand new driveshafts.

    The other problem I can see in the future is that if you tap the driveshafts onto the output shafts when it comes time to remove them you may have a problem getting them off.

    Maybe the person who machined the inner spines on the driveshaft has used a to tight a tolerance??

    Could you also post up some pics of your Davrian, these are wicked little cars. Most on AF would not know what these cars are.

    I first seen these cars when I use to read a magazine called "Alternative Cars" which was a magazine about the British kit car industry in the 80's which from all counts was a booming industry there, with lots of different cars available for all budgets.

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    Have just tried heating one up to a few hundred degrees but it's still very tight although it might be because they've been heat treated for strength so I now wonder if the heat treatment process has caused them to shrink slightly so I think I'll return them to the fabrication company to be checked rather than risk any damage to the box/diff!

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    Have just tried heating one up to a few hundred degrees but it's still very tight although it might be because they've been heat treated for strength so I now wonder if the heat treatment process has caused them to shrink slightly so I think I'll return them to the fabrication company to be checked rather than risk any damage to the box/diff!
    Sounds like a plan to me, I would also take the transaxle with you as well so they can check on clearances for those output shafts.
    Regards Col

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    I've heard about Sav's engines. What output are you expecting from this beast?

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    Thanks for the comments. The car is one of the last Davrians built and was raced as a GT in the UK until 1989 but has never run since. I decided on the Renault engine option because it should give nearly twice the power of an Imp engine and lots more torque with twin Weber 45 Dcoe's and a full race exhaust while still eligible for historic racing here. Hopefully it should go well because it's around 600Kg in total and these cars are known for handling exceptionally well. I hope to have it finished late 2020 so will upload some more info on it as it progresses.20180512_162635.jpg

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    Wow! Photo of the power plant please
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    Even new driveshafts should slide on tight, but with no real effort.

    Your idea should work, the workshop should be able to measure everything and see what's goin' on.

    In the meantime, have you checked the number of splines is correct?

    I would have a look at the stubborn joint and see how the splines are cut.

    The problem with splines is the crest can be sharp whilst the "valley" is inevitably round in the bottom. That is enough to make the fit a pain. A burr from cutting the splines can also be enough to make your life difficult. This will make the crest protrude a little bit higher than it should. You could try to measure by using some close tolerance rods, say a tool machined to very close specs, like a carbide/HSS milling cutter/drill bit or some such to get a feel for the inner diameter of the joint on the crests, and then some calipers or similar (ideally a pinpoint micrometer) in the valleys of the outdrive. That'll tell you immediately where the problem lies.

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....lL._SX522_.jpg

    The outdrive also needs to be clean and free from any imperfections.

    I would use a fine stone or diamond file with the right profile (triangular, maybe?) to take off any burrs/imperfections off both the outdrive and inner joint and see what happens.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 24th December 2019 at 03:42 PM.
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    Thanks to all for the suggestions. I'll definitely send the shafts back to the fabricators to be checked - the problem is that they're in the UK so I can't really send the box over to get the output shafts matched up! The aim with the engine is somewhere around 175bhp at the flywheel but with good torque too because the rear tyres are nearly 11" wide so it's likely to grip well. This pic was taken before the engine was built up while it was being trial-fitted. 20171014_231025.jpg. It's got a front mounted radiator and electric water pump plus small remote oil cooler, higher spec oil pump and bigger baffled wet sump. I suspect that noise might be an issue with the small Cherry bomb silencer but will just have to wait and see!

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    Howdy Eyre. I've seen Davrians in Classic and Sportscar Mag over the years. They look the business!

    As for your problem...what's the black treatment of that part? Is this on the inner splines too and is it possible this has made it too tight? I'm just throwing up ideas; I can't see it being that, but still...


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  14. #14
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    Yes, the outer splines are also very tight so I wonder if it's a combo of them being heat treated (black finish) after they were machined which slightly changed the dimensions and the points made regarding the profiles of the splines. will keep you updated

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    You could try to send the fabricator an outdrive to test fit and fine tune the joint if you had a spare. That should avoid further headaches.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Damn those driveshafts look nice, be a shame to get them dirty by driving the car.
    All Renault driveshafts I've ever fitted have been an easy fit at the gearbox end.
    Have had issue at the wheel hub but never at the box.
    Others have already offered suggestions so ditto what they have suggested.
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