R17 wiper arms and reverse lockout
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Default R17 wiper arms and reverse lockout

    Hi everyone,

    Two questions:

    1. Are Renault 12 wiper arms the same as 15/17? I’m missing one (and would like them in black) and the R12 shop has some R12 arms available. The arm I have is 400mm long with a slight bend to the right.

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    https://www.renault12shop.com/ruitenwissers

    2. The reverse lockout on my 17G (365 gearbox) is non existent. From memory it is a spring and ball bearing in the gearbox that acts as the lockout in the 5 speed boxes, rather than the plastic covered bracket at the base of the lever like in a regular 12/15/17. Is it possible to install this bracket to act as a lockout with the 5 speed linkage?

    https://www.renault12shop.com/770134...356,7700506897
    2002 Monaco Blue Renaultsport Clio 172
    1975 R1317 Renault 17 Gordini

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    That is not a lock out mechanism. That is a slider meant to prevent you accidentally going in reverse from fifth.

    The lockout is in the box, there should be a thick disc that is pushed sideways in a channel in the casting and locates in a groove in the forward speeds selector rods (1/2 and 3/4) to block selection of forward gears when reverse is engaged.

    That said, you say that doesn't exist in your box. Do you mean the next door selector rods don't have the groove, the casting doesn't have the channel, the disc is missing or all or some of the above?

    That said, your gear stick should have a sideways spigot that needs to hit that slider to function as a stop if you try to engage reverse when in fifth. The design is meant to force you to push the gear stick down to engage reverse. If your stick doesn't have that spigot, it makes no difference if you have the slider in place or not.

    Either way, that's not a lockout.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 2nd December 2019 at 11:48 PM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Thanks schlitzaugen. When I say non existent I mean there is no resistance when shifting the gear lever to the left and down to get reverse. It just slots straight in without needing to push down or across. Pretty easy to go from third to reverse when meaning to grab second.

    I didn’t take the rear case off this box so can’t confirm if it has a groove on the selector rod etc. I only inspected it by removing the bell housing when renewing the input shaft seal.
    2002 Monaco Blue Renaultsport Clio 172
    1975 R1317 Renault 17 Gordini

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    The reverse lockout is not in the rear cover but in the main body of the 'box in the RH side half casing.

    The rear cover hides the fifth lockout but even that one is still in the main body.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 3rd December 2019 at 11:19 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Hello Jensen,
    Don't know if the R12 arms are the same as the R17.
    I doubt it as the R17 arms, from memory are longer than the R12 but I could be wrong as it's been a long time since I had an R17,
    However, the arms from the R12 shop would be for LHD cars so even if the spindles fit and they're the right length they're probably cranked the wrong way.
    (I pretty sure my R17 swept to the right but it's been a while).

    Cheers
    RTT
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

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    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Thanks RTT,

    Yes the 17 does sweep to the right. Scratch that idea then, I’ll find one locally.
    2002 Monaco Blue Renaultsport Clio 172
    1975 R1317 Renault 17 Gordini

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    Wipers arms are definately different.

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    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    I'll check my stash Jensen.
    I removed the body of the blade assembly and replaced with the Trico TB450 complete blade assembly. They are black too. Made a big difference.
    Last edited by Shoji; 3rd December 2019 at 05:45 PM.
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    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    Had a look in the stash. All different to what's on my car. Wrong angle and lengths. Sorry, can't help you.
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I had a look today and don’t have any spares...(don’t even seem to have a set for my car so if you find a source please let me know).
    I always thought the mechanism that prevents you selecting reverse by accident was exteral in all the single selector type gearboxex.. on the late 395 and ng3 and those with 2 external shafts for gear selection it’s built into the end housing, but for 365 (certainly for early 365 anyway) they use the plate under the floor like an r12.
    The detent in the right side casing is just to stop the reverse idler shaft engaging reverse gear when the selector fork is in the other gates, as is the 5th gear detent ball in the end housing. Only other internal detent is the interlock springs, balls, and disc between 1/2 and 3/4 selector shafts to prevent selecting 2 gears in different gates at once.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    I think I’ve worked it out. Pulled the rubber cover off the housing at the base of the gearstick (see red arrow below). It is one of the few things I didn’t remove way back when it was blasted and painted

    Unlike on a 12 or 4 speed 17, that housing on the 17G effectively has a step moulded into it that acts like that plate to prevent reverse being selected without pushing the gear lever down. It also has a spring loaded pin to offer some resistance in the other direction so you know you are selecting 5th rather than 3rd.

    Either the gearstick is misaligned or the plastic has worn away too much as it shifts far enough over to select reverse without hitting the step. I can’t see how the gearstick would be adjusted in that direction so am thinking the easiest option will be to mount a R12 plate in there in the correct position.





    2002 Monaco Blue Renaultsport Clio 172
    1975 R1317 Renault 17 Gordini

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    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    An update (and resolution!) to #2.

    By adjusting the length of the linkage (the clamp with two bolts in the parts book page above) I was able to achieve an alignment that feels pretty good and prevents reverse being selected unless you depress the gearstick. The slightest adjustment made a significant difference so took many tweaks but got there in the end. With new rubber mounts it’s surprisingly direct which is pleasing.
    2002 Monaco Blue Renaultsport Clio 172
    1975 R1317 Renault 17 Gordini

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    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    Hi Jensen. Well done!!
    That's the same part I had to make from scratch. JohnW kindly supplied the metal block. Then I bought a 13mm drill bit of ebay for a few bucks and made the part with limited tools. Works a treat. I must add this onto my time line.
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    Ove
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    ....

    The lockout is in the box, there should be a thick disc that is pushed sideways in a channel in the casting and locates in a groove in the forward speeds selector rods (1/2 and 3/4) to block selection of forward gears when reverse is engaged.

    That said, you say that doesn't exist in your box. Do you mean the next door selector rods don't have the groove, the casting doesn't have the channel, the disc is missing or all or some of the above?
    ....
    Yes, in later 365-versions (-30 and upwards, but only these for front-driven cars) that disc doesn't exist any longer. The shift-axles are kept in neutral position by a rotatable ring with two noses (ref 7700568885). The same system was also used in some 395-boxes (R20, R18 and Fuego)

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