Renault in Australia, Have we gone back to the 1990's
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Default Renault in Australia, Have we gone back to the 1990's

    Does anyone else get the feeling that Renault is about to pull the plug on Australia again?

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    After about 20 years since the last revival Renault Australia has basically 2 cars in the range (Okay, The Captur is just a Clio in a different frock so not counting that as a separate series), and three commercials. I believe the Megane series is now axed apart from the Sport series. So there will be more commercial vehicles in the range than cars. Maybe I'm watching the wrong television programmes but I rarely see any advertising, I actually see more Renault advertising on U-tube (Yes I know they have targeted advertising based on search history). Doesn't seem like Renault are serious and are just going through the motions until they disappear much like the early 90's.

    And in that time the dealer network is still dismal. Here is Brisbane we have 1 dealer (or maybe 2) and what 5 dealers between Tweed Heads and Noosa. You've got Metro Renault in the innercity. Springwood in the outer south east is not actually in the Brisbane area but Logan City. Most people don't want to drive 40 - 50 km just to see and/or buy a car plus go there to have the cars serviced so they're basically servicing the people in the immediate area mostly. (My daughter was interested in buying a new Koleos but ended up buying an X-Trail primarily because there were two Nissan dealers within 15 minutes of home, Metro Renault was at least double that in distance and maybe triple the time). Even a nothing brand like MG has 6 dealers in the Brisbane area but Renault can only support 1 (maybe 2)!

    Surely there are other models that will sell in Australia. A small kiddie-crusher, Kadjar and perhaps an entry level like the Logan, and maybe a ute from their stable, etc. Two car models on offer (plus commercials) and stuff-all dealer network, It looks like Renault Australia are trying to fail or at least don't give a rat's.
    Shades of the early 1990 all over again and look forward to being orphaned again.
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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    They certainly have reduced the range, but as it is important not to introduce anything new until you have sold the old I guess there may be a new lineup appearing shortly. I'm interested to know, naturally, which new Renault from the pre-existing range you have bought or will be buying yourself in the immediate future? Our experience with Renault in Melbourne over the last 21 years including four new purchases has been pretty good, the vehicles have been ultra reliable and don't require a service every five minutes, now, just annually.

    As I understand RA's new head is a failed PSA Australia executive, so trying to fathom where they are going now is not going to be easy, but as that executive allegedly presided over PSA sales drops in Australia that should give you some idea. No-one in the motor industry is too sure where they are going at the moment, and as the Renault group is one of the larger manufacturers they will be watching the international market closely. Then again, the effort required to sell nice French cars in a Bogan market may not necessarily be worth it.
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    Yes as soon as I read she was a failure from Peugeot I thought the same. We've gone back 25 years. We can all see the writing on the wall.
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    No surprises there. Inchcape only bought the rights to Peugeot and Citroen in Australia because they were going begging at a bargain price and then they didn't know what to do with them. Brought in an MD from Holland who had no experience in the auto industry or interest in the makes (or Australia) to act as corporate undertaker. Role to downsize their dealer network and reduce it to a profitable "prestige" niche operation. Got the first part right, most of the countryside now has no Peugeot dealers but sales followed as well. Here we are with 2020 in sight and there is still unsold Peugeot stock from 2017. She has been employed to run Renault Australia? Good luck. It's not as if there is a shortage of skilled Australian auto industry managers but they probably have a culture of promoting their brands not running them into the ground.
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    Mostly correct I’ve dealt with her personally but what do you mean no experience in the auto industry. But good luck Renault she’s a classic slash and burner


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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    Does anyone else get the feeling that Renault is about to pull the plug on Australia again?
    Hopefully not for 7 years at least, as they are now offering 7 years warranty and 3 years free servicing on Koleos https://www.caradvice.com.au/789512/...ree-servicing/
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    Hi,
    this side of the ditch we still get the Captur (Nissan Juke), Koleos (X-trail) and Megane GT and RS as well as the Zoe + vans.
    It all comes down to numbers. Neither of us will get the Alaskan ute as it's not selling well in Europe and Nissan seems to have dug it's heals in with holding onto the Aussie/NZ market. (It's also now sold here as the Merc X class and that is a dead duck with less sales than Great Wall) We won't get the Clio as it never sold in great numbers and the market has gone gaga over SUV's. I like the look of the Megane Super Tourer but estates just aren't selling in these markets, they all want SUV's.

    Renault, as well as other European brands have one huge problem to overcome, in the past they were VERY expensive to buy and worse to maintain. People remember that and tell others and it becomes what everyone remembers. They also had checkered pasts with reliability and parts availability and that has soured many who bought them.

    It would take a huge investment from Renault, Peugeot etc to get a strong foothold here and they won't do it. Our combined Aussie/NZ markets are tiny compared to the European market. They have had a big push with Vans and seem to be doing well and that may lead on to more car sales but only time will tell.

    The lack of dealers is only because of a lack of sales volume. In 2018 Renault sold 10,018 new vehicles in Australia, sounds not bad but when you compare it to Nissans 57,699 it looks not too bad but with Toyota selling 217,000 cars in a declining market, Renault, and Nissan, have a long way to go.

    One thing I would like to see is that the Nissan dealers be registered service centres for Renault. They aren't here in the shaky isles and I see that as a shame as it limits owners even more.

    My 2 cents worth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morecowbell View Post
    Hi,
    this side of the ditch we still get the Captur (Nissan Juke), Koleos (X-trail) and Megane GT and RS as well as the Zoe + vans.
    It all comes down to numbers. Neither of us will get the Alaskan ute as it's not selling well in Europe and Nissan seems to have dug it's heals in with holding onto the Aussie/NZ market. (It's also now sold here as the Merc X class and that is a dead duck with less sales than Great Wall) We won't get the Clio as it never sold in great numbers and the market has gone gaga over SUV's. I like the look of the Megane Super Tourer but estates just aren't selling in these markets, they all want SUV's.

    Renault, as well as other European brands have one huge problem to overcome, in the past they were VERY expensive to buy and worse to maintain. People remember that and tell others and it becomes what everyone remembers. They also had checkered pasts with reliability and parts availability and that has soured many who bought them.

    It would take a huge investment from Renault, Peugeot etc to get a strong foothold here and they won't do it. Our combined Aussie/NZ markets are tiny compared to the European market. They have had a big push with Vans and seem to be doing well and that may lead on to more car sales but only time will tell.

    The lack of dealers is only because of a lack of sales volume. In 2018 Renault sold 10,018 new vehicles in Australia, sounds not bad but when you compare it to Nissans 57,699 it looks not too bad but with Toyota selling 217,000 cars in a declining market, Renault, and Nissan, have a long way to go.

    One thing I would like to see is that the Nissan dealers be registered service centres for Renault. They aren't here in the shaky isles and I see that as a shame as it limits owners even more.

    My 2 cents worth.
    It's pretty much the same here in Australia. We have the Clio, now reduced Megane range (no more sedan and wagon or base model hatches, just GT Line, GT and RS models), the Captur, Koleos, Kangoo, Trafic, Master, Zoe EV, Kangoo EV and soon the Kadjar will launch here.

    If it wasn't for the Renault range of LCV's, Kangoo, Trafic and Master, Renault's only decent seller, would be Koleos. Here in Adelaide we had 3 Renault dealers, all attached to Nissan dealers, but now there is only 2. Both the Renault and Peugeot dealers have closed close to where I live, so now it's either go across the city or head down south to buy a Renault. My local was only 10min from me. All Nissan dealers here in Adelaide, are also service centres for Renaults, so that's good.

    Next year, the new Clio and Captur will arrive, plus a facelifted Koleos - might be this year, new Kangoo, and facelifted Trafic and Master. Plus there is also a new Zoe, not that it contributes many sales for the brand.

    After the sales disaster of the X Class in Australia, you can bet we won't be seeing the Alaskan Ute. The smaller Duster Oroch Ute also won't make it here, the RHD business case just won't get the support it needs. A pity we won't get the Renault Duster either ….

    Sales peaked in 2015 with 11,525 sales, but sales have been in decline ever since. This year could mark the first time sales haven't reached 10,000 units since 2014.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmccurtayne View Post
    Mostly correct I’ve dealt with her personally but what do you mean no experience in the auto industry. But good luck Renault she’s a classic slash and burner


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    I just don't understand why they would bring in someone like her, when she has that kind of reputation? Justin did so much for the brand, I just feel things have never been the same since he was shown the door. I honestly didn't see that coming ….

    Maybe he was referring to Poelmann's lack of local knowledge of the industry?
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    Does anyone else get the feeling that Renault is about to pull the plug on Australia again?

    After about 20 years since the last revival Renault Australia has basically 2 cars in the range (Okay, The Captur is just a Clio in a different frock so not counting that as a separate series), and three commercials. I believe the Megane series is now axed apart from the Sport series. So there will be more commercial vehicles in the range than cars. Maybe I'm watching the wrong television programmes but I rarely see any advertising, I actually see more Renault advertising on U-tube (Yes I know they have targeted advertising based on search history). Doesn't seem like Renault are serious and are just going through the motions until they disappear much like the early 90's.

    And in that time the dealer network is still dismal. Here is Brisbane we have 1 dealer (or maybe 2) and what 5 dealers between Tweed Heads and Noosa. You've got Metro Renault in the innercity. Springwood in the outer south east is not actually in the Brisbane area but Logan City. Most people don't want to drive 40 - 50 km just to see and/or buy a car plus go there to have the cars serviced so they're basically servicing the people in the immediate area mostly. (My daughter was interested in buying a new Koleos but ended up buying an X-Trail primarily because there were two Nissan dealers within 15 minutes of home, Metro Renault was at least double that in distance and maybe triple the time). Even a nothing brand like MG has 6 dealers in the Brisbane area but Renault can only support 1 (maybe 2)!

    Surely there are other models that will sell in Australia. A small kiddie-crusher, Kadjar and perhaps an entry level like the Logan, and maybe a ute from their stable, etc. Two car models on offer (plus commercials) and stuff-all dealer network, It looks like Renault Australia are trying to fail or at least don't give a rat's.
    Shades of the early 1990 all over again and look forward to being orphaned again.
    And here I was thinking I was the only one thinking of this very same issue!

    Now that Poelmann is in charge, I don't have a lot of hope unfortunately.
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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Toyota sell shit-loads of cars because they have pretty much every type of vehicle you could want and operate in every market segment and have dealers everywhere. Ford, Holden, Nissan, etc. also have a presence in all or most market segments and have (or used to for Ford and Holden) a very wide dealer network. Renault is the opposite of Toyota. Leaving commercials out of it, Renault has Clio/Captur, Koleos, and Megane Sport and a very limited dealer network. How are you ever going to get volume with such a restricted offer. The top selling "car" in Australia is a truck (HiLux) and only 3 of the ten top selling "cars" are cars. All the others are trucks or kiddie crushers, areas where Renault has little or no presence.
    I too have this sense that Poelmann has been brought in to shut the doors.
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    Attempted to read all of the above comments that basically all say the same. My own take is simple: chicken and egg, no dealers no sales. Really regrettable that Justin got dumped, as under his watch things were looking up. The only mistake he made was not to continue with the Scenic that had gained valuable and well deserved brand loyalty, even here.
    And the one or two 'pretend' dealers we do have are so tied up in their multi-brand range, that Renault hardly gets a look in.
    My lovely Koleos is approaching the stage when it needs a thorough full service, but there is no way I am going to trek all the way across town to get the poor service that I had the great displeasure to experience the last two times.
    Nissan is just up the road, almost walking distance, but also part of a multi dealership, but being familiar with the very popular X-Trail one hopes that they can cope with the mechanically identical Koleos.
    Other than that, I am of the firm belief in the adage: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" The fewer careless and incompetent hands in my engine compartment, the better. I can still do all the basics myself, and take as long as I need to.
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    My 2¢:
    To make sales, you need to generate demand;
    To generate demand, you need to be marketing — that’s either explicitly, through above the line advertising and promotions, or implicitly, through product placements, reviews, media coverage etc to create product awareness.

    On my observation, Renault has been missing in action in both areas for a few years now. I can understand budgets are tight for advertising, but we have a F1 GP here every year, with a full factory racing team. Last time Renault made much effort was in 2015, with the release of the Megane RS 275 Trophy-R, which it then squandered by bringing too many in. Where was the promotion associated with Danny Ricc? Even their involvement with the TCR series is lack-lustre.

    Compare this with the way Hyundai introduced the I30N to Australia. Same segment as the Meg RS. Same market ‘disability’ in that it is a MT car . Yet, I saw Hyundai’s ‘track’ team everywhere in the last two years — tech nights, drives at track days, lots of social media, WRC angles and TCR.

    A quick search of Linkedin reveals around 30 current employees at Renault Australia with ‘marketing’ in the title/job role. I wonder what they’re doing? Because it isn’t obvious out here in customer/owner land.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breitie View Post
    Attempted to read all of the above comments that basically all say the same. My own take is simple: chicken and egg, no dealers no sales. Really regrettable that Justin got dumped, as under his watch things were looking up. The only mistake he made was not to continue with the Scenic that had gained valuable and well deserved brand loyalty, even here.
    I want a new Scenic....
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttimboc View Post
    My 2¢:
    To make sales, you need to generate demand;
    To generate demand, you need to be marketing — that’s either explicitly, through above the line advertising and promotions, or implicitly, through product placements, reviews, media coverage etc to create product awareness.

    On my observation, Renault has been missing in action in both areas for a few years now. I can understand budgets are tight for advertising, but we have a F1 GP here every year, with a full factory racing team. Last time Renault made much effort was in 2015, with the release of the Megane RS 275 Trophy-R, which it then squandered by bringing too many in. Where was the promotion associated with Danny Ricc? Even their involvement with the TCR series is lack-lustre.

    Compare this with the way Hyundai introduced the I30N to Australia. Same segment as the Meg RS. Same market ‘disability’ in that it is a MT car . Yet, I saw Hyundai’s ‘track’ team everywhere in the last two years — tech nights, drives at track days, lots of social media, WRC angles and TCR.

    A quick search of Linkedin reveals around 30 current employees at Renault Australia with ‘marketing’ in the title/job role. I wonder what they’re doing? Because it isn’t obvious out here in customer/owner land.
    You do realise that you can't make people buy cars? French cars have never been mainstream in Australia and probably never will be. We fought the Germans to save France, we sent thousands to be prisoners of the Japanese and we fought to save South Korea from the dastardly communists. Funny how things work out, isn't it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttimboc View Post
    My 2¢:
    To make sales, you need to generate demand;
    To generate demand, you need to be marketing — that’s either explicitly, through above the line advertising and promotions, or implicitly, through product placements, reviews, media coverage etc to create product awareness.

    On my observation, Renault has been missing in action in both areas for a few years now. I can understand budgets are tight for advertising, but we have a F1 GP here every year, with a full factory racing team. Last time Renault made much effort was in 2015, with the release of the Megane RS 275 Trophy-R, which it then squandered by bringing too many in. Where was the promotion associated with Danny Ricc? Even their involvement with the TCR series is lack-lustre.

    Compare this with the way Hyundai introduced the I30N to Australia. Same segment as the Meg RS. Same market ‘disability’ in that it is a MT car . Yet, I saw Hyundai’s ‘track’ team everywhere in the last two years — tech nights, drives at track days, lots of social media, WRC angles and TCR.

    A quick search of Linkedin reveals around 30 current employees at Renault Australia with ‘marketing’ in the title/job role. I wonder what they’re doing? Because it isn’t obvious out here in customer/owner land.
    I disagree.

    This year's F1GP in Melbourne was a sea of yellow, the safety cars were Yellow Meganes, I cant remember if there was a lot of TV advertising, but I made comment on this forum that Renault had made good mileage from the Dan Ric/ Renault involvement.

    And TCR - I think they are the most involved from my point of view (TV). They sponsor the TV coverage each meeting (hard for them last time because the Meganes did rather poorly). And at Qld they had some sort of on-site display and meet & greet in the paddock area which was widely reported (or I wouldn't have known about it from 4000ks away!)

    And certainly in Perth media, there are regular articles in the motoring section, to the point where I have felt that their advertising is way above what I would expect from their market share.

    I think they have been trying pretty hard.

    Cheers.
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    Still seeing a cross section of new Renaults around on Melbourne Roads and still catching Renault Adverts, mostly on cable TV, maybe they see that as a good source of new buyers. Be interesting to see some official sales figures. just to see where I put my precious dollars.

    Ken

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    Watching the World Cup basketball in China the Aussie team’s warmup clothing is emblazoned front and centre with Renault.

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    I can't wait for this incoming fire sale. Renault Traffic for me!

    But I don't know, if wages were rising, perhaps ppl would buy new stuff..

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    Renault Australia extends TCR support for Garry Rogers Motorsport (who run the Renault Megane RS cars).

    https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/06...0O4GYwOSCxfJPs

    Pretty good considering the rules of TCR exclude manufacturers from direct involvement, but they can offer support to teams.

    Cheers.

    (Also posted in Motorsport section)
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    Several Renault adverts at prime time (news) channel 10 last night.

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    Not sure where you guys are getting your information from.
    Renault dealers are in Springwood, City, Northlakes, Redcliffe and Ipswich. 5 in the southeast at my count.

    As for the range....what company imports cars to have them sit around in stock yards collecting dust? Sedan sales in Australia are down, way down...blame the love of the SUV for that. The main 3 'model' sales for passenger vehicles in Australia is hatches, SUVs and dual cab utes.

    Renault have more vehicles on the horizon for release in the coming months. You can only sell what people want and Australia has got to be the toughest country in the world to sell French cars in, blame the overall bogan mentality.

    We never seem to forget anything a Euro manufacturer does or country for that matter. I had heard people mention the nuclear tests in relation to French cars and the dieselgate stuff for VW.
    I'd bet my left nut, in a few months after Teayoda have fixed the DPF issues, everyone will forget about it.
    This from a manufacturer who, up until this year, 4th quarter practically did not offer Apple c arplay or Andriod auto in their vehicles, yet the plebs still buy those boring as bat poo ugly boxes.
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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY View Post
    Not sure where you guys are getting your information from.
    Renault dealers are in Springwood, City, Northlakes, Redcliffe and Ipswich. 5 in the southeast at my count.

    I said in Brisbane and by my count there is just Metro Renault. Springwood, Northlakes, and Ipswich aren't in Brisbane and there isn't a dealer in Redcliffe that I can see (or on the Renault website). If you want to go from Tweed Heads to Noosa you'll scoop up a few more.

    As for the range....what company imports cars to have them sit around in stock yards collecting dust? Sedan sales in Australia are down, way down...blame the love of the SUV for that. The main 3 'model' sales for passenger vehicles in Australia is hatches, SUVs and dual cab utes.

    Exactly, Renault don't have the range so either you get more models (that people want) or you bail out. IMO it's the sales of the commercials that's keeping Renault afloat at present, they seem to have more models/variants in the commercials than passenger cars.

    Renault have more vehicles on the horizon for release in the coming months. You can only sell what people want and Australia has got to be the toughest country in the world to sell French cars in, blame the overall bogan mentality.

    Just one, the Kadjar at present. Rightly or wrongly if it's the bogans that are buying the cars then you have to cater for the market.

    We never seem to forget anything a Euro manufacturer does or country for that matter. I had heard people mention the nuclear tests in relation to French cars and the dieselgate stuff for VW.

    Most people currently buying cars weren't born before the French nuclear tests in the Pacific and the tests were not the fault of any French car makers but their government.
    Dieselgate is recent history and was a deliberate attempt by Volkswagen to con the public and government regulatory authorities so they could sell cars that did not meet emission standards. Dieselgate should not be forgotten quickly as it shows what the management of Volkswagen think about their customers and the governments, i.e. the contempt in which they're held.


    I'd bet my left nut, in a few months after Teayoda have fixed the DPF issues, everyone will forget about it.
    This from a manufacturer who, up until this year, 4th quarter practically did not offer Apple c arplay or Andriod auto in their vehicles, yet the plebs still buy those boring as bat poo ugly boxes.
    Reply
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  24. #24
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Just sell me a Scenic. Its all I want!
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

    1997 Peugeot 406 2.0 Manual - On Loan

    2004 Citroen C3 1.4 80th Anniversary (RIP)

  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Its not just the europeans ..... car sales for the last 10years have been .... a wank tank or nothing. If every middle aged women wants a wank tank (or pretend wank tank .... it doesn't matter if its just a jacked up 2wd hatchback....... so long as it "looks" like a kiddie crusher its fine).

    my wife has even said to me when the poogoe gets replaced, it'll probably need to be with a pretend wank tank. There is no decent family wagons left these days. They have to be sleek looking (so useless and tiny inside). which brings you back to the pretend wank tank. its an ugly jacked up box shaped thing. being box shaped means it will have functional space within ........................

    I can't wait for the middle aged women to see the new defender ............ if there cheap enough they'll plague every school and supermarket carpark in the world as they will be the next "trendy" big thing to be seen in.

    seeya
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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