330 and other - Gearbox sealant
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Thread: 330 and other - Gearbox sealant

  1. #1
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    Default 330 and other - Gearbox sealant

    When searching for another topic I came across a reply that quoted you should not use silicon as a sealant between the two gearbox casings as this could cause problems. So this raised a couple of questions in my head. What are recommended for this use? And why is silicon a bad thing?

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    Hi,
    one thing said, and I suppose quite fairly, about silicon sealant, as that part of the bead one applies ends up squeezed out on the inside. Which pieces then break off and get mixed in with whatever fluid it is sealing in. Which may lead to undesired results.

    Regards,
    Andy

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    COL
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    In the past when rebuilding Renault transaxles I have used this product from Permatex and have found it very good:

    https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...ealant-liquid/

    when I did my last Reanult transaxle rebuild I used this Threebond 1211 and also found it very good. I see on their website they show Threebond 1215 that is more suitable for transaxles.

    https://www.threebond.com.au/liquid-gaskets.html

    I would only use sealants that are designed to be used with the oils and fuels that you are going to use in your application.

    Also I have seen instances where some people just overload the surface with what ever sealant they are using and it just squishes out everywhere, just apply enough to cover the mating surfaces so when put together only a small amount squishes out of the joint.
    Regards Col

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    Threebond 1104. Semi-liquid and popular with motorcycle transmission rebuilders especially old British bikes. The kind that you'd only worry about when they stopped leaking oil.

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    I'm very good at oil leaks. If you want one I can do it! My best results are with Three Bond. That stuff is good but expensive. For many years I used any silicone sealant because I believed it was all the same and only the colour changed.

    I was wrong.

    Something that I found recently on the race car was that the breather on top of the box has a little seal with a spring inside it. If you remove it and blow through it, it takes quite some pressure to open the valve. I realise that is needed for when the gearbox gets submerged to keep the water out, but it also keeps some pressure inside the box and provokes oil leaks. I removed that spring and seat from the valve and put the little cap back on the racecar's gearbox, and it is as dry as a bone. I don't intend to go underwater with it ever.

    Frans.
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    Young enough to do it anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    In the past when rebuilding Renault transaxles I have used this product from Permatex and have found it very good:
    Been using this stuff for years too. I've had plenty of leaky gearboxes but none from casings sealed thus.
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    I used this just last night on the bellhousing of a 365 gearbox. Was a recommendation of a well regarded Renault mechanic.

    https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...lange-sealant/

    Let’s hope it doesn’t leak, gearbox is going in on the weekend!

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    As I slow down in doing active mechanical fixes, I tend to only buy smaller tubes of my preferred sealant, more expensive but less wasteful in the long run. The slightly higher cost seems justifiable when other operating costs are factored in over time. Use the best for the job, do it once and do it properly...IMHO!

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    Yeah, I use Threebond as well. In the past it wasn't so expensive but now it's gone through the roof. I am sure there are other options, but for someone who needs a job done right the first time, it's the only sure fire option. And it is even more expensive if you only have a small job to do, because the rest of the tube is wasted. I would try to look on the internets to get it, there's got to be a cheaper source /smaller tube than what we get here.
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    Thank you very much for all your answers Then I know what to use next time my gearbox is open

    Only had silicone available when I put it together. Had to open it to check what was done to it

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    If you use it sparingly, shouldn't be a problem. All sealants will squeeze out, the difference is the ooze won't detach and float about in the g'box.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 21st August 2019 at 03:07 AM.
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    Yes, tried to smear it out so there only was a thin layer of silicone when I put the casings together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Yeah, I use Threebond as well. In the past it wasn't so expensive but now it's gone through the roof. I am sure there are other options, but for someone who needs a job done right the first time, it's the only sure fire option. And it is even more expensive if you only have a small job to do, because the rest of the tube is wasted. I would try to look on the internets to get it, there's got to be a cheaper source /smaller tube than what we get here.
    I agree Schlitz Threebond seems to be twice the price of other brands of sealants.

    I find when you are buying sealants get the toothpaste sized tubes, they seem to seal up ok keeping air out and there for having a good shelf life.
    Regards Col

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    If my memory serves me correctly, on a 330 gearbox the end plate gasket thickness can effect the shaft end play. If you only remove the end plate then replace it you cannot check end play and so I always use original thickness gaskets. This also applies to the side trunion mounts. It is hard to find the correct thickness. If you use just gasket cement then you will need to check shaft end play and the crown wheel/pinion mesh.

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    I see the ThreeBond 1215 comes in 250gram tubes. Will one of these be enough for one gearbox? I have to order this, so want to order so I have enough.

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    250 grams will be plenty. I usually line up as much work as I can so I use as much as I can. Replace the top on the tube whilst keeping a bit of squeezing pressure on the tube so air doesn't come in and it should be okay for years. By the way, these tubes have good tops that don't crack when tightened or with age and let air in and kill the rest of the tube for you like the cheap? crappy? deliberately? made tubes.

    That plate is used on pretty much all similar 'boxes from Renault and it locates the biconic bearing hence it will affect the final drive pinion protrusion, not its mesh with the crowhnwheel. The mesh is set after the pinion protrusion is adjusted.

    Renault specifies the protrusion to a precision of a hundredth of mm (by use of a special Renault tool and feeler gauge) so I take it that is how close you have to set it. There's no two ways about it, you just have to do the adjustment every time you work on the secondary shaft (the plate comes off). I wouldn't trust the gasket thickness when the specs are so tight in tolerance. To adjust the pinion protrusion Renault uses shims in front of the biconic bearing. Everything is then loaded on to the secondary shaft and then you need to give the cable speedo drive nut 200Nm of torque and stake it. That means you need to put your shims, assemble everything, torque the nut, then measure protrusion. If you need to change the shims, everything must come off, change the shims as appropriate, then put everything back, torque, measure, etc. A real pain in the dorongo.
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    Another question regarding sealants. Is a little bit of sealant useful on the gasket between the gearbox and bellhousing? Any recommendations? Have some Threebond 1215 lying around.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Only if you're trying to keep the g'box oil in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    250 grams will be plenty. I usually line up as much work as I can so I use as much as I can. Replace the top on the tube whilst keeping a bit of squeezing pressure on the tube so air doesn't come in and it should be okay for years. By the way, these tubes have good tops that don't crack when tightened or with age and let air in and kill the rest of the tube for you like the cheap? crappy? deliberately? made tubes.

    That plate is used on pretty much all similar 'boxes from Renault and it locates the biconic bearing hence it will affect the final drive pinion protrusion, not its mesh with the crowhnwheel. The mesh is set after the pinion protrusion is adjusted.

    Renault specifies the protrusion to a precision of a hundredth of mm (by use of a special Renault tool and feeler gauge) so I take it that is how close you have to set it. There's no two ways about it, you just have to do the adjustment every time you work on the secondary shaft (the plate comes off). I wouldn't trust the gasket thickness when the specs are so tight in tolerance. To adjust the pinion protrusion Renault uses shims in front of the biconic bearing. Everything is then loaded on to the secondary shaft and then you need to give the cable speedo drive nut 200Nm of torque and stake it. That means you need to put your shims, assemble everything, torque the nut, then measure protrusion. If you need to change the shims, everything must come off, change the shims as appropriate, then put everything back, torque, measure, etc. A real pain in the dorongo.
    Tricky maybe but, done right, it should be decades before it needs touching. My gearbox was rebuilt in the early 80s or maybe late 70s (I can't remember) and hasn't been touched since. About 100,000 miles (160,000 km) I suppose, since then.
    JohnW

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