R16TL four speed gearbox to build a R8 "big box"
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Thread: R16TL four speed gearbox to build a R8 "big box"

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    Default R16TL four speed gearbox to build a R8 "big box"

    I have allready a R5 Alpine five speed gearbox(similar to the R16TX box but bellhousing fits Sierra engine) that I plan to use to build a five speed "big box" for my R8 but Im afraid its a bit to complicated.

    A R16TL four speed gearbox have turned up for sale. As I understand building a four speed "big box" is a lot easier. Simply switching the new internals into a 330 case and making up some diff bearing carrier spacers?

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    Will any R16 four speed be suitable?

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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi Reidar,

    Seems nobody can answer this. When you say 16TL is up for sale, do they have the crossflow engine in?

    Remember the R16 was a 1455 non-crossflow engine with possibly a different block and bell housing.

    I would chance an answer to your question. If it is a crossflow engine with either Solex or Weber Carburettor son then it should fit.

    Regards, Frans.

    PS. This link is to my method of big-box modification with equal spacers on either side of the box, all others do it differently with one thick spacer and the then the offset of the wheelbase is rectified by mounting the motor and gearbox assembly 6mm to the opposite side so that the wheels are back to the centre. R16 internals in R8 Casing
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Does it matter what engine size it was to the internals of the g'box? That's all he needs.
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    I think the 'crossflow' part is what Franz is getting across. A 16TS box is needed, rather than 'TL' box that likely NOT strong enuff to take power from a 807 with twin webbers.
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I see.

    That said, ratios would be different too, I imagine.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Does it matter what engine size it was to the internals of the g'box? That's all he needs.
    I am not sure if the 1455 non-crossflow gearbox casing and internals are the same as the 1565 TS versions. I've never seen a R16 with open bonnet yet. In ZA they were very rare. I.ve seen the engine on a distance, different looking rocker cover I think.

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    Thanks for the link Frans. That thread answers most of my questions. Simon is wery clear that the box in the R16TL is more or less the same as in the TS so the box up for sale is suitable.
    I have also been a bit confused by the 2x6mm or 1x12mm spacer subject as it alters the fosition of the diff/crownwheel but you cover that perfectly in that word document.

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    Just a little question regarding this subject.

    Is there an easy way to see the difference between the 330 and 336 internals? Are the diff bearing carrier spacer visible in any way?

    Trying to find out what has been done to my 330-box and doesn't have anything to compare it with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    I am not sure if the 1455 non-crossflow gearbox casing and internals are the same as the 1565 TS versions. I've never seen a R16 with open bonnet yet. In ZA they were very rare. I.ve seen the engine on a distance, different looking rocker cover I think. Frans.
    Non-crossflow head Frans so very different appearance. If I recall, the 16TS outsold the TL in Oz once it had been released and both were available. Of course the TS was more expensive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    I am not sure if the 1455 non-crossflow gearbox casing and internals are the same as the 1565 TS versions. I've never seen a R16 with open bonnet yet. In ZA they were very rare. I.ve seen the engine on a distance, different looking rocker cover I think.

    Frans.
    Frans, the non crossflow engine is the standard base engine in a Lotus Europa. It was very common back in the day.
    I have the original engine for my Europa from back in 1973. It had the single 40DCOE available in Australia as an upgrade from the Geoghegan dealership. The pic below is not mine but is a pretty good example of how they looked in a Europa. Block is identical to 16TS, pistons are different shape to match head and bore is less then TS, crank is shorter stroke but loves big revs.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    I always was amused that Renault would have been one of the few organisations to pull a fast one on Colin Chapman. Sell a batch of tweaked standard 16 engines, then release the cross-flow 16TS. He must have been spitting.
    JohnW

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    I suspect some cross channel rivalry. Alpine vs Lotus. Jean Redele likely to have more influence than CC. Anyway, Lotus had their twincam and by then had worked out how to fit it into the engine room/chassis. Alternator driven by an extended camshaft. I suspect there was a fan belt driving the water pump at the inner firewall end, can't have been nice to replace!!
    Thats the big advantage of the 16 engine in mid engine config.
    I read in a period road test of the 1470cc Europa, the Renault engine deal with Lotus meant the Europa could have the engine seviced and tuned by any Renault dealer in Europe.
    Regards
    Stew.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8RX View Post
    Just a little question regarding this subject.

    Is there an easy way to see the difference between the 330 and 336 internals? Are the diff bearing carrier spacer visible in any way?

    Trying to find out what has been done to my 330-box and doesn't have anything to compare it with.
    The only way to see that will be when the gearbox is open and you count the teeth on the pinion and crown gear. It should give you a 3.7:1 ratio. or there will be the spacer that is visible from outside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    The only way to see that will be when the gearbox is open and you count the teeth on the pinion and crown gear. It should give you a 3.7:1 ratio. or there will be the spacer that is visible from outside.
    Thank you Frans

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    I think you can find details like these in the relevant Renault workshop manuals. Those would be useful just in case you nwant to choose a particular ratio and the manual can at least let you know if it was ever made or not. Now finding these manuals is possible but I can't say how hard it can be. Ebay france throws up a lot of good surprises all the time. Good luck.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Yes, look under "Renault manuals" and "worldwide" on www.ebay.fr, but do the www.ebay.com and www.ebay.com.au too. There's a surprising number of manuals out there.
    JohnW

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    Hi Reidar

    This link may be of help:

    BOITES de VITESSES
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    Regards Col

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    Ray and others have varned me that the diff in the TL box is weaker than the one in the TS.

    So two days ago i picked up this:
    29F1728F-9FF5-497C-BE1F-517D06D93E49.jpeg
    A2D40932-9B7C-493F-8794-DA5AB106B455.jpeg

    The seller was restoring a R16TX witch has a 385 five speed so he offered to sell me this 336 from his TS parts car. He lives a 10hours drive from me but as we were visiting my wifes family for the weekend witch brought me closer. Still had to get up 5:30am to be back for supper...
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Result!

    Aussiefrogs strikes again.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reidar View Post
    the diff in the TL box is weaker than the one in the TS.

    What is the index number on the TL gearbox? As a majority of the 9 x 34 crown wheel and pinions are identical between the TL and TS 'boxes.
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    I've built a couple of 5 speeds for A110's using 385 donour internals, R10S case and bellhousing, Mecaparts endhousings and a myriad of R8 and hand made selector bits. All with the careful guidance of my friend Rob Sealey.

    A simpler conversion is to put R16 internals into an R8/10 case. Both conversions require a 11/12mm spacer on one side of box. Both conversions require modified U/J's to suit the beefier output shafts. I've probably made 20+ sets of U/J's, and am in the process of making a batch.

    The bigger R16 crown wheel needs to be skimmed around the perimeter to clear something (it's been awhile and I can't remember) and the box housing needs some gentle gouging as well.

    I have many photos of the 5 speed build. Happy to share

    Cheers

    Richard Mann
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    Richard, sharing your photos of the 5 Speed Build would be fantastic.
    And yes, Rob is a very talented guy and a great friend! He is helping me to build a Quaife lsd for my R8.
    Angelo


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    Hi Richard. I’m on the oposite side of the globe from you but I’m interrested in a pair or two of your U/J’s.

    Five speed pictures would also be nice

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Reidar This link may be of help: BOITES de VITESSES
    Wow. And wow again.... Thanks Col.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Reidar

    This link may be of help:

    BOITES de VITESSES
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Wow. And wow again.... Thanks Col.
    Yer some amazing engineering there, way beyond my my skills.
    Regards Col

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