807-10 pick-up pipe and baffle plate
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Thread: 807-10 pick-up pipe and baffle plate

  1. #1
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    Default 807-10 pick-up pipe and baffle plate

    Do anybody know if it is possible to buy a new pick-up pipe for a Renault 15/17 style sump?

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    And is it possible to buy a baffle plate for the same oil sump? Or are these easy to make on your own?

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi
    It’s easy to make it yourself. Have a look at my thread “807 Competition motor”. Very successful and never had any problems or oil surges.
    Frans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Hi
    It’s easy to make it yourself. Have a look at my thread “807 Competition motor”. Very successful and never had any problems or oil surges.
    Frans
    Thank you!

    I believe I have seen some images of your plate. Just one question regarding these "trap doors". What do they do and are they necessary?

    I going to take a closer look on your thread

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    If you have a look at photo 1 of 7 you will see the pencil lines of where the partitions are positioned. Roughly at a 1/3rd and 2/3rd of the sump dividing the sump into 3 compartments. In this compartments is a trapdoor in each of them. They have a hinge so that they can open to the middle compartment only and not outwards.

    The oil pick-up is in the middle compartment. If you brake hard the oil will stop against the front trap door and not go out of the middle compartment. The back trap door will open allowing oil in and keep the middle compartment filled with oil in case their is a little oil escaping out at the front one.

    The same happens under hard acceleration but in a reverse manner as mentioned above.

    The plate on top is cut in such a way that when the sump is fitted the oil pump lies in that shape and effectively close it so that most of the oil lives below the plate minimising the splash inside and restricting the crankshaft. To make and fit that plate you will have to cut a piece of 3-5 mm thick plate, about 80-100 mm wide with with holes that line up with the sump bolts. measure and copy the oilpump bolts to the plate so that when you fit the oil pump to the plate it is in the same position as when it is on the engine block. Now you can mark, trim and test the gaps to make them as small as possible so that it closes the oil in as much as possible.

    Matra Jet 6 restoration.

    Post no 33 on this thread will give you a different view of the partitions and trap doors but that is on a wedge engine for the Matra.

    Frans
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    Thank you very much Frans! Explained a lot to me. Think I have to take some time and study your thread before I try this.

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    R8RX,
    Graeme's R8 Gordini Rebuild !!!

    Post #17

    Is my version.

    Ray
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    And on a 807/R17
    Another R17 owner planning to upgrade

    #378
    Single baffle because of shape of sump.

    Ray
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    Thank you geckoeng

    The reason I am asking for a new pick-up pipe is that my current one have been hit by the sump at one point and it have some damage. Nothing critical I believe but want one in good condition. Any other Renault models with the same pick-up pipe?

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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    The Renault 18GTS in Australia with the 1647cc 807 style engine has the same sump as an 807 in a 15/17. The complete housing and pick up is cast aluminium, and as an added bonus has the larger 31mm deep pump. I have one on my 807 in my 4CV.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8RX View Post
    Thank you geckoeng

    The reason I am asking for a new pick-up pipe is that my current one have been hit by the sump at one point and it have some damage. Nothing critical I believe but want one in good condition. Any other Renault models with the same pick-up pipe?
    I have spare ones for the 16TS 807 s if you need, it is slightly different to the 15/17 type.

    Ray
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    I have spare ones for the 16TS 807 s if you need, it is slightly different to the 15/17 type.

    Ray
    To fit the 16TS oil pickup into the 15/17 sump you will need to shorten it a little because the bottom of the sumps are a different shape.

    Its not hard to do just cut out some of the tubing and weld back together.
    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    The Renault 18GTS in Australia with the 1647cc 807 style engine has the same sump as an 807 in a 15/17. The complete housing and pick up is cast aluminium, and as an added bonus has the larger 31mm deep pump. I have one on my 807 in my 4CV.
    I have the possibility to buy a 18ts (1647cc) engine. I've been told by the seller exactly what you say. Another question regarding this engine, is the crankshaft the same as 15/17 807-10 engine?

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    R8RX,
    You are building a R8 with 16TS/807 motor ???

    Just use the entire GTS motor. Most impotant it has a pulley at the timing chain end and the water pump is there as well and it has "o-ring" sleeves, and mounting lugs for the rear cross member. A win in all directions.

    Ray
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    All that is subject to the block not having any corrosion at the liner base. The tapered seats are more difficult to re-cut, and then you have to re-cut the flat shoulder above it as well, to allow the liners to come down all the way and compress the o-rings. The R15/17 block/head have all the bosses and are machined so they can take the pump at either end. The liner seat is flat, and often corroded, but easier to machine.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Yes, I am building an R8 with a 807-10 engine. It is going to be a 1596 engine. There is an engine volume to weight ratio regulation in the class I am building the car for. Another thing is that the engine block had to be in production before 1974. And the 1647cc block came after this?

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I doubt anyone would be able to tell without opening it up that your block was a 1647 and not 1565 and even then you can always machine the liner base to suit whatever you are trying to represent.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    All that is subject to the block not having any corrosion at the liner base. The tapered seats are more difficult to re-cut, and then you have to re-cut the flat shoulder above it as well, to allow the liners to come down all the way and compress the o-rings. The R15/17 block/head have all the bosses and are machined so they can take the pump at either end. The liner seat is flat, and often corroded, but easier to machine.
    With-in limits. I have never seen or done a block where that corrosion has stopped me from preparing the engine build.

    I have always been able to clean it out with a Dremel and those miniature rotary files and filled it in with epoxy. Because of the rest of the area that the sleeve has contact with, the corroded parts that was about 10 mm long at various places, had to be sealed against water only. The good aluminium area carries the weight of the torqued down sleeve. That water is never more than a 100 degrees and the pressure is never more than 15 psi (100 kPa) and those figures are within the epoxy specs.

    What I have done is to grind the corrosion area so that it is clean and the the base of this area has a hollow in it so that the epxy cannot come out. It has a little pool at the base and will have to lift to come out. With the sleeve sitting on top of it it cannot lift. I must add that I have never relied on the O- ring or seals alone to keep the water out. I've always used a sealant as well.

    Frans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I doubt anyone would be able to tell without opening it up that your block was a 1647 and not 1565 and even then you can always machine the liner base to suit whatever you are trying to represent.
    Well, probably, but have to send in an application with engine type and engine number when the car is finished.

  19. #19
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    use an 841 or 843 block and put the 807-10 number tag on it. They will never know. And corroded blocks can be fixed (easy) with out machining, as Frans says.

    Ray
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    In Australia the engine numbers are also stamped on some where. On a Sierra engine it's right rear on top of the block. Cannot remember where on the 807 series. While the real engine number should include the 688 - then XXXXX etc. In my experience the stamped numbers never do include the engine type number. The Safety Certificate issuer is meant to check the stamped number but in my experience rarely do. I have had a Transport Registration Dept person get me to find the stamped number rather than the plate, but it is rare most take the easy way out and use the plate.

    As far as corrosion on seal surface, I once replaced liners in a 807 block that the previous owner had used a silastic material to glue the liners in place. It had never leaked during my use. But the liners were very difficult to remove later on. The liners on my L/R V8 are glued in at the factory. They have no lips at either end. But the glue has been known to let go. Slipped liners are a known fault with them.

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