Fuego wont go very well
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Thread: Fuego wont go very well

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Fuego wont go very well

    1985 Fuego GTX is in trouble. Starts OK but after it has been running for few minutes it begins to miss badly and will even stall on occasion, especially under load. Replaced distributor cap, rotor, plug leads, plugs, coil and reconditioned carby but the problem remains. This car lives in country Victoria (Horsham) so it is a little difficult to source parts and I am running out of ideas. Any suggestions as I am reluctant to give up on the vehicle at this stage of its auspicious career?

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    1000+ Posts dmccurtayne's Avatar
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    My 20ts had a similar issue years ago it ended up being the alternator shorting in the slip rings found using a multi meter on the coil while failing


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    Quote Originally Posted by fregate View Post
    1985 Fuego GTX is in trouble. Starts OK but after it has been running for few minutes it begins to miss badly and will even stall on occasion, especially under load. Replaced distributor cap, rotor, plug leads, plugs, coil and reconditioned carby but the problem remains. This car lives in country Victoria (Horsham) so it is a little difficult to source parts and I am running out of ideas. Any suggestions as I am reluctant to give up on the vehicle at this stage of its auspicious career?
    On any Fuego, with that problem, the first thing that I look for is one of the myriad of rubber tubes has worked itself loose or is cracked, that often is a quick and easy fix. I am sure your have looked for that in your search for a cure.

    Many years ago my daughters Fuego had a similar problem, that I was able to fix as I was able to obtain a spare ignition module and just by changing over the whole unit as illustrated on page 138 of the Haynes ( # 764 version of the manual,) I never actually diagnosed what was the problem with that module unit, but its replacement fixed the puzzling problem, it would run then misfire, very similar to other ignition related problems. I had one by one eliminated the others that might cause such running problems.


    The lead shown as (B) on that page is the Top Dead sensor that fixes above the flywheel often collects a lot of metal dust on the magnet and that can confuse it, so I always made sure to clean or replace that when in doubt as to intermittent ignition faults.

    I see you have replaced the coil pack, you used to be able to buy them new, though over the years only a few failed in service. Pity I was in Horsham a month back while heading to a Funeral in Adelaide, could have had a look the problem or bought up some Fuego spares from Melbourne to try and fix itfor you.

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    Hi
    I had a similar problem with my R20 years ago and it was the small earth lead for the movable distributer plate inside the dissy not making a good connection. Not sure if your Fuego has points or electronic ign as Ken implies.
    Jaahn

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    TDC sensor going open circuit when hot?
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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    TDC sensor going open circuit when hot?
    If the TDC sensor fails, it may show in the taco needle (RPM dash Gauge).
    The Taco gauge gets its signal from the ignition unit and apart from telling RPM, it can give clues to the TDC sensor.

    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by fregate View Post
    Starts OK but after it has been running for few minutes it begins to miss badly and will even stall on occasion, ....
    After coming off the choke?

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    hi frigate,i realise you have had carry record but the primary throat solenoid valve jet is prone to blocking on feugos and or solenoid failing. just a matter of unscrewing solenoid on near side of carby(it has a small Allen key grubscrew locking it in) and removing brass jet from end and checking for blockages. blow some air through jet port in Carby. as well as check fuel and air filters, a dirty air filter can cause jet to block....just a thought...... jim

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    gawd......still didn't, do spell check. should have read carby recoed.......jim
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    Thanks for those suggestions - I will keep looking. I should have mentioned that it has also had a new TDC sensor and the solenoids on the carby were also checked to see that they were operational. What about contaminated fuel? Would that cause those sort of symptoms?

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    Yep, dodgy fuel could be the issue, could also be a dodgy fuel pump, carby icing, a dodgy carby overhaul, missing/misplaced vacuum hoses, failed attempts at removing emission control systems, moon phase, etc etc.......
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    Need a friendly mechanic with an engine analyser. Will find cause very quickly

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    bob
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    G'day,

    I'm with Ken, it's been running a few minutes, so the hot water is circulating and starting up the rubber octopus.... I'd look there first....

    cheers,
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by fregate View Post
    Thanks for those suggestions - I will keep looking. I should have mentioned that it has also had a new TDC sensor and the solenoids on the carby were also checked to see that they were operational. What about contaminated fuel? Would that cause those sort of symptoms?
    Most fuel contamination issues can be picked up by examining the in line filter between the tank and the carburettor, there will always be a small residue of rust or dirt collected there and water shows up easily as small globules, over the years I have replaced dozens of the small nylon type filters, cleaned tanks and mesh filter pick-ups in the tanks.

    There is also the issue of a modification that may or may not have been carried out that can lead to a build up of pressure or alternatively vaccumn in the tank, taking the cap off mostly will reveal if that is a problem, you will hear the rush in or out when the cap is removed.


    The carby choke system has been the subject of quite a few posts years back and Mistarenno fitted an electric choke to one of his Fuego's. I always recommend looking for the simple fixes as often that cures the problem and doesn't cost much in the way of money as you methodically work your way through the possibilities.


    You should be able to test the fuel pump, easily to see if it is working o.k. and we used to be able to buy new fuel pumps rather than just the replacement rubber valve internal diaphrams that fail.


    Ken
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 26th June 2019 at 01:01 AM.

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    bob
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    G'day,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    ..........You should be able to test the fuel pump, easily to see if it is working o.k. and we used to be able to buy new fuel pumps rather than just the replacement rubber valve internal diaphrams that fail.

    Ken
    Replacement with an electric impulse pump is the way to go. I did that to the R20 and increased power and decreased fuel consumption !! The return line on the Renault system tends to block up with the result that you get ridiculous line pressure that the carby needle can't handle - can't recall the PSI results, but they're in AF somewhere. You mount the thing low down, near the tank, they're better pushers than suckers. And, on rubber grommets, otherwise the noise will drive you bananas

    For the purists, yes, there should be safety circuits to switch the thing off in case of accidents......

    It was an off the shelf unit at the local 'all brands parts place', likewise, part number details are in AF somewhere.... but there is another hiding the shed that I can examine if there is any interest....

    cheers,
    Bob
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego View Post
    After coming off the choke?
    After coming of the choke or what?

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    Oh gee at last! The intermittent problem that I had with my 20 Ts (series 11) sounds so similar . Tried every thing altho Bob's ideas sound familiar re the fuel pump . Some said the rubber lines deteriorates and closes up on suction altho that didn't fix my problem . Used to drive me crazy - motor revving normally suddenly huge miss revs dieing away - very frustrating . Reconditioned carb, everything ! Interesting suggestions in this thread . Wish I had this input 20 years ago!
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    bob
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    G'day,

    the r20 has a normal old time dizzy but lacks an earthing strap on the action plate, this is a sure thing to provide a sudden 'no go' syndrome when you try to pull away from rest at the same time as the thermostat cracks and allows the vac-advance to move the action plate - to a spot where the earthing via the dirty old spring fails.....

    Standard fault for 504/505 as well, dumbed down ducelliers... all they need is a two-bob earth strap !!

    cheers,
    Bob

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    Standard fault for 504/505 as well, dumbed down ducelliers... all they need is a two-bob earth strap !!
    And very often a drop of lubricant of the rubbing block as well.

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    This Fuego, being the last of the breed in Australia, has the in-line fuel filter sitting in under the carburettor along with the distributor and the fuel pump. It is very tight in there but I think that I will change the filter and syphon out as much as the fuel from the tank that I can and refill with new fuel. If that makes no difference then I will check the fuel pump, as has been suggested. After that it may be time to look at the ignition module because although I have replaced the coil the module is still original. Thank you for the continued interest and the suggestions.

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    I'd remove the plugs and turn the motor over with the starter motor while you have the in line filter disconnected that should show if the pump is working o.k. and examination of the contents of the filter should confirm or eliminate contamination.

    ken

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    As ken has mentioned, the carbon can and the 'roll over valve' is a bit suspect in design.
    Some random/jumbled thoughts after a few glasses of whisky..

    When you open the Fuel cap, does it sound over or under pressurised?? Does air suck or blow in/out??
    I did everything to try and remedy the problem on my Fuego but in the end just vented my cap and never filled the tank to full.

    The jets block easily. Pull the plastic carry top off and rev it high, then stick your hand fully over the carby and block the airflow. Don't worry, your hand won't get sucked in but it can help clear the jets.

    If you see the fuel filter with bugger all fuel in it, this is normal. The pump supplies a wee trickle.

    Does the choke lever seem week in its action? That is a common issue. Increased revs might suck the choke closed and it will run stupidly rich. You might see this when the cover is off.
    What does the tail pipe look like....Sooty??

    If you are worried about fuel flow, grab a small container and put a few ml of new fuel in... a nip glass would do (5 ml) , and pour that down the carb when it is running bad. If it runs good, it might indicate a bad fuel supply.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by jo proffi; 30th June 2019 at 12:41 AM.
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    To add to Jo Proffi's advice re clearing carby jets, I always used a Nulon carby spray can to spray down the carny after removing the shroud with its three 8mm securing studs. I sprayed down the jets and the throat of the carby, then ran the engine and used that palm on the main throat and yes that clears blockages, and the nulon carby cleaner seems to help clean the system right through to the valves and carbon off the tope of the pistons. good stuff..


    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by fregate View Post
    This Fuego, being the last of the breed in Australia, has the in-line fuel filter sitting in under the carburettor along with the distributor and the fuel pump. It is very tight in there but I think that I will change the filter and syphon out as much as the fuel from the tank that I can and refill with new fuel. If that makes no difference then I will check the fuel pump, as has been suggested. After that it may be time to look at the ignition module because although I have replaced the coil the module is still original. Thank you for the continued interest and the suggestions.
    Unless you describe to us the symptoms in detail, ANY ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS can be the answer to your problem.
    Do you want to spend weeks/months sorting this out and spending $$$$ ??????

    Everytime I get sucked into giving suggestions to these posts and see that a million answers are given, each is valid.

    Jo, Simon et all are giving excellent answers but you are starting the fault finding in the middle.

    Start with the basics:
    Fresh fuel - YES/NO
    Is it OFF THE CHOKE when the issue occurs YES/NO

    From the answers to these simple questions the group can help, otherwise..........
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  25. #25
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    Hi fregate

    I have a spare module and pickup sensor. PM me if you need.

    Cheers

    bazzamac

    Quote Originally Posted by fregate View Post
    This Fuego, being the last of the breed in Australia, has the in-line fuel filter sitting in under the carburettor along with the distributor and the fuel pump. It is very tight in there but I think that I will change the filter and syphon out as much as the fuel from the tank that I can and refill with new fuel. If that makes no difference then I will check the fuel pump, as has been suggested. After that it may be time to look at the ignition module because although I have replaced the coil the module is still original. Thank you for the continued interest and the suggestions.

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