Renault R12/15/17 Lowering Front End
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    COL
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    Default Renault R12/15/17 Lowering Front End

    Have been thinking about a cheap easy way that I can lower the front end of my R12, that is also reversible.

    After much thought I have come up with this.

    I'm lucky enough to have Bilstein shocks in the front of my R12 which already have 4 ride heights built in, but even on the lowest setting this is not quite low enough.

    This is the Bilstein shocks that I have with the Bilstein spring perch to which the standard spring perch sits
    IMG_4076.JPG

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    Bilstein spring perch removed you can see the four grooves in which the top one has a circlip.
    IMG_4077.JPG

    Coilover sleeves and adjusting nut
    IMG_4078.JPG

    The coilover sleeve that has one guide machines down and a landing machined in to sit on the circlip in the same way as the Bilstein spring perch does.
    IMG_4079.JPG

    Adaptor to go from the adjuster nut to the standard R12/15/17 spring perch
    IMG_4080.JPG

    Bilstein shock with coilover sleeve and adjuster nut
    IMG_4081.JPG

    Bilstein shock with coilover sleeve; adjuster nut and spring perch adaptor
    IMG_4082.JPG

    Bilstein shock with coilover sleeve; adjuster nut; spring perch adaptor and standard R12/15/17
    IMG_4083.JPG

    I have not yet installed these on the car. When i do I will take some more pics and post them on this thread
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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    Bloody schmick job Col.

    I would like to do the same with some Konis I have.
    Daily Drivers: R10, R12, R17T(?) Decouvrable

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exfrogger View Post
    Bloody schmick job Col.

    I would like to do the same with some Konis I have.
    As long as they have that criclip that should not be a problem, from my reading its the Bilstein's and Koni's that you can do this to.

    It works out a lot cheaper than real coilovers.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    I’ll check tonight but I’m pretty sure the 12/17 Koni shocks have the perch welded on rather than a circlip arrangement. I’ve seen non- Renault applications where the perch has been cut off and a threaded collar welded on (carefully!).

    COL, your set up looks good. Will be interesting to see once fitted if there is any binding of the standard springs at low settings given how many coils there are on standard springs.

    What’s the plan for the rear?
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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jensen View Post
    I’ll check tonight but I’m pretty sure the 12/17 Koni shocks have the perch welded on rather than a circlip arrangement. I’ve seen non- Renault applications where the perch has been cut off and a threaded collar welded on (carefully!).

    COL, your set up looks good. Will be interesting to see once fitted if there is any binding of the standard springs at low settings given how many coils there are on standard springs.

    What’s the plan for the rear?
    There should be no binding of the coil spring as I will be using the standard spring that is already in the car. The only negative that I can see is that the shock travel will be reduced as I effectively lower the spring perch down.

    As far as the rear goes, don't have a plane to do anything there at present. I was thinking about lowering the front about 50 mm basically bringing front guard down to the top of the tyre.

    Originally I was going to cut some more grooves into the Bilstein shock, even ground up a parting off tool to suit for cutting the grooves. I have been hanging off doing that from fear of stuffing the shock.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    All Star Performance parts list.

    https://allstarperformance.com/content/872.pdf

    I used:

    2 @ 5" sleeve ALL64162
    2 @ Adjuster nut ALL64180

    These are to fit 50mm bodied shocks
    bowie likes this.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

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    Okay Col, now the hard question: what about the rears?
    Daily Drivers: R10, R12, R17T(?) Decouvrable

    In the Shed(s):
    R8 (1.4 motor, 4 shock rear end), Dauphine, Pugeot 404

    In the Past:
    Dauphine X2, R10 X lots, R12 X2, R16TS, R17TS

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I am worried about that adaptor for the OEM spring. Seems to be aluminium and doesn't have the step for the coil end. Might cause issues. I think you could just use the original spring perch, they come off the shocks. Might still need an adaptor if the bore doesn't match.

    The rear end is more problematic because of the passive steering effect inbuilt by Renault. I imagine a shorter spring with a higher elasticity constant to compensate would be enough to lower the car, but the effect mentioned above will change.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Just buy a second set of shorter springs and swap them in, and then out again when you want to reverse it?

    But no I appreciate your engineered solution and endless tweaking to ensure height is perfecto.

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I am worried about that adaptor for the OEM spring. Seems to be aluminium and doesn't have the step for the coil end. Might cause issues. I think you could just use the original spring perch, they come off the shocks. Might still need an adaptor if the bore doesn't match.
    I don't follow what you mean

    All the parts are aluminium to keep weight to a minimum.

    I'm using the oem spring perch so the spring will sit as it does now.

    I can't use the original Bilstein spring perch because the internal diameter is to small and I do not want to modify it.

    The adjuster nut is designed to accept 2.5" coil over springs and the spring on my car is 160 mm so need an adaptor.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exfrogger View Post
    Okay Col, now the hard question: what about the rears?
    Not sure yet, haven't come up with a cheap simple solution, but open to ideas
    Last edited by COL; 18th June 2019 at 06:48 PM.
    Exfrogger likes this.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Just buy a second set of shorter springs and swap them in, and then out again when you want to reverse it?

    But no I appreciate your engineered solution and endless tweaking to ensure height is perfecto.
    I could machine up a piece of aluminium or purchase a top for the shock and then buy coil over springs as another option.

    I drive the car on the road and occasionally compete in motorkhanas with the car, so its all a compromise.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Those Bilsteins look a neat bit of kit, with the flexibility to adjust like they do.

    Just adding a pic of the “usual” 12/15/17 Konis. As Jensen says, they have a welded spring perch support, so can’t be adjusted.




    Just watch with lowering the rear, as when the trailing arm is parallel to the floor at rest (so the axle trailing arm mount is the same height as the body trailing arm mount) it does funny things to the handling as the axle moves above and below the body pivot point when cornering.
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    My understanding of the rear was that Renault built in some passive roll oversteer (or oversteerish) by way of bush distortion to produce toe-out on the outside wheel (& toe-in on the inside given the beam axle).

    How that would be affected by a lower rear I know not but surmise that, as body roll is the big variable, it might not matter. My two Virage wagons with saggy rears handled in a sanitary way (helped by R17 anti roll bars which I assume that Col has fitted).

    cheers! Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Those Bilsteins look a neat bit of kit, with the flexibility to adjust like they do.

    Just adding a pic of the “usual” 12/15/17 Konis. As Jensen says, they have a welded spring perch support, so can’t be adjusted.




    Just watch with lowering the rear, as when the trailing arm is parallel to the floor at rest (so the axle trailing arm mount is the same height as the body trailing arm mount) it does funny things to the handling as the axle moves above and below the body pivot point when cornering.
    I'm not sure why Bilstein made the shocks the way they did, maybe it was to compensate for different spring rates available.

    Its just a shame that they never put another half a dozen more grooves below those four.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    #unrelated!

    https://www.racingaspirations.com/ap...ry-calculator/

    Oh nerd toys everyone!
    COL likes this.

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

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    Fellow Frogger! Jensen's Avatar
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    Just measured the front Konis. The diameter of the shock body is 55mm.

    Top Performance seem to have sleeves and other hardware to suit.

    http://www.toperformance.com.au/app/...e-Products.pdf
    2002 Monaco Blue Renaultsport Clio 172
    1975 R1317 Renault 17 Gordini

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    I like that site, this is probably more useful as the R12 is double wish bone suspension.

    https://www.racingaspirations.com/ap...ry-calculator/
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    My understanding of the rear was that Renault built in some passive roll oversteer (or oversteerish) by way of bush distortion to produce toe-out on the outside wheel (& toe-in on the inside given the beam axle).

    How that would be affected by a lower rear I know not but surmise that, as body roll is the big variable, it might not matter. My two Virage wagons with saggy rears handled in a sanitary way (helped by R17 anti roll bars which I assume that Col has fitted).

    cheers! Peter
    Yes I'm running R17TL anti roll bars.

    I also have a set of R17TS (Gordini anti roll bars here as well)

    The more roll that is taken out the less effect roll over steer is going to have. Still not sure what to do about the rear.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jensen View Post
    Just measured the front Konis. The diameter of the shock body is 55mm.

    Top Performance seem to have sleeves and other hardware to suit.

    http://www.toperformance.com.au/app/...e-Products.pdf
    I remember coming across that site, but dismissed using there stuff because it was either the wrong size or did not have the landing necessary to sit on the circlip.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    I don't follow what you mean

    All the parts are aluminium to keep weight to a minimum.

    I'm using the oem spring perch so the spring will sit as it does now.

    I can't use the original Bilstein spring perch because the internal diameter is to small and I do not want to modify it.

    The adjuster nut is designed to accept 2.5" coil over springs and the spring on my car is 160 mm so need an adaptor.
    My mistake, I did not see the last picture.
    COL likes this.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    You guys overthink things.
    I've been building hot 12's for 40 years and you know what we did.

    Cut 2 coils off with an angle grinder.

    R12's have such long travel and so many coils it can afford to loose a couple. Each coil equals 1 inch (25mm) so we usually cut 2 and lower it 50mm

    With good shockers, thick sway bars and reverse the top ball joints and you have something that turns in pretty well.
    We tried 3 coils once, front and rear and when the car went over a jump the rear springs well out.....don't do that.
    JohnW, COL, bowie and 2 others like this.
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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Better get some limiting straps on the beam then before I take my nugget back to Awaba then....

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    There should be no binding of the coil spring
    My distant memory tells me the r12 front end is similar to the fuego (which I still remember)
    Check out jounce bumpers.
    It gets ugly when the shock suddenly runs out of travel.
    Jo

  25. #25
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    My distant memory tells me the r12 front end is similar to the fuego (which I still remember)
    Check out jounce bumpers.
    It gets ugly when the shock suddenly runs out of travel.
    Jo
    I have those in the rear Jo, might get a set for the front.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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