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Thread: Dauphine Steering & Brake Issues.

  1. #26
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    The steering wheel can point anywhere. It is on a spline and can be moved on the spline to face anyway desired.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    The steering wheel can point anywhere. It is on a spline and can be moved on the spline to face anyway desired.
    Sure!

    But the rack's flexor only has 4 holes. Unless there is an offset, I can't see how toe in/out is affected by which ones are used for column or which the rack.

    Brakes.

    The saga continues. The brake place's "pressure test" consists of putting the cylinder in a vice, filling it with fluid, bleeding it out thru the stop light switch hole & then pushing on the piston with a Phillips head screwdriver. They said it was "rock hard".

    I respectfully pointed out that when I push on the pedal I'm applying about a 10 to 1 leverage effect that has FAR more force/push than a hand held screwdriver.

    Hydraulics ain't rocket surgery; what I'm seeing is explained by either a too small seal or a too big hole.

    Because I'm such a good customer (they have done ALL my work for 20 years), they've very kindly offered to have the car in their workshop to investigate but I have to wait till the steering goes back in.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

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  3. #28
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    Steering.

    I rang to get a delivery date (next week) so I can arrange the brake shop visit. I mentioned the excessive toe-out on the drivers side & they told me that they later found the assembly is bent on the driver's side which is the most likely cause of the toe-out and probably the distortion at the flexor.

    Fortunately they can straighten it and get it back to ~98% new all round.

    I might even get the bugger on the road for Bastille Day!
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    Steering.

    I rang to get a delivery date (next week) so I can arrange the brake shop visit. I mentioned the excessive toe-out on the drivers side & they told me that they later found the assembly is bent on the driver's side which is the most likely cause of the toe-out and probably the distortion at the flexor.

    Fortunately they can straighten it and get it back to ~98% new all round.

    I might even get the bugger on the road for Bastille Day!
    That explains the toe problem and also the stiffness in the rack, your lucky they can straighten the rack.

    Maybe a long term solution is to find another rack.
    Regards Col

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    Hmm. Good that you are making progress. Which assembly was found to be bent? I can't see how suspension components or the steel rack itself being bent would affect the flexor distortion - I'd still go back to the rack mounts, as the rack has obviously had quite an impact.

    As for the MC, you can only shake your head sometimes.....

    Continued good luck!
    JohnW

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  6. #31
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    Can you not just slap an R8 rack in it and go?

    Also, remember that if you can get someone in the northern hemisphere to send you a left hand drive rack, it will be worn on the other side of the rack to where we wear them out down here. Turn the pinion over 180 degrees and you'll think you've got a new car!

    As for the brake issue, if you're getting hissing that would suggest there's air escaping. Are you losing brake fluid? What is the condition of the pipes going into the MC? Are they the right profile for their seat in the MC? Can you get someone to pump on the brakes while You search for the source of the hissing with a length of tubing stuck in your ear?

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  7. #32
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Exfrogger, I'm not too sure about that because the pinion goes in at an angle to the right on RH ones and to the left on LH ones. They do not match, therefore all the issues you have to go through when trying to make a quick rack. But maybe I understand you wrong.

    I would like to think I'm right on the R8 rack. If it has been assembled correctly then there is a punch mark on the pinion shaft. That should point straight up when the rack is in the center. Then the coupling has a groove in it that should align with the punchmark, give or take a spline. when you bolt the shaft on, you will have the bottom 2 bolts horisontal and your steering wheel will be very close to straight.

    Have a look at the photos, it might just be there on the Dauphine ones as well.





    The groove in the coupling is not that clear but you can see it in the photo.

    Regards Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  8. #33
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    Oh shucks I doubled up on the photo.



    Here is the coupling photo with the mark opposite the hole in the soft coupling.

    Frans.
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    Young enough to do it anyway.

  9. #34
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    *** As for the brake issue, if you're getting hissing that would suggest there's air escaping. Are you losing brake fluid? What is the condition of the pipes going into the MC? Are they the right profile for their seat in the MC? Can you get someone to pump on the brakes while You search for the source of the hissing with a length of tubing stuck in your ear?****

    Absolutely no leaks. And I have the flex hoses clamped so it's all about the m/cylinder

    Perhaps "hissing" is not the right word. It's the squish you hear when you push the pedal down (after pumping it up) when someone opens a bleeder valve. It's the sound I associate with the m/cylinder piston pushing brake fluid.

    JohnW I stared at the "ears" that mount the rack for a long time today. They LOOK fine & are parallel. I put a straight edge on them & marked where they would touch the boot underside. The dots were symmetrical. The impact was mostly on the driver's guard & wheel. That would have put a levering force to the rear on the rack and if/when it bent would result in toe-out. When the rack goes back in all will be revealed!
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    *** As for the brake issue, if you're getting hissing that would suggest there's air escaping. Are you losing brake fluid? What is the condition of the pipes going into the MC? Are they the right profile for their seat in the MC? Can you get someone to pump on the brakes while You search for the source of the hissing with a length of tubing stuck in your ear?****

    Absolutely no leaks. And I have the flex hoses clamped so it's all about the m/cylinder

    Perhaps "hissing" is not the right word. It's the squish you hear when you push the pedal down (after pumping it up) when someone opens a bleeder valve. It's the sound I associate with the m/cylinder piston pushing brake fluid.

    JohnW I stared at the "ears" that mount the rack for a long time today. They LOOK fine & are parallel. I put a straight edge on them & marked where they would touch the boot underside. The dots were symmetrical. The impact was mostly on the driver's guard & wheel. That would have put a levering force to the rear on the rack and if/when it bent would result in toe-out. When the rack goes back in all will be revealed!
    All will be revealed as you say. It does sound as if the brackets are OK. Hope so.
    JohnW

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  11. #36
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    Default The rack came back early

    IMG_2458.JPGIMG_2459.JPG

    I installed it but didn't connect the flexor yet as the master cylinder will need to come out AGAIN and it's "easier" without the rack in place. I don't think the words "easy" and "Dauphine master cylinder" should be in the same sentence.

    I estimate 80% of the excess toe-out is gone. The rest may be eliminated during the alignment procedures.

    As an experiment I installed ~5mm of flat washers under the rack on the driver's side thus pivoting the rack forward. I expected to remove more toe-out.

    To my complete surprise I got MORE!

    When you think about it, an impact on the wheel would have levered the rack to the rear and that may have pulled on the drivers side mount thus moving it forward & giving excess toe-out

    Anyway, that makes it very easy to fix; just hit the bugger with a hammer. But, that may be best left to the experts during alignment
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

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  12. #37
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    Interesting. You'll have worked out why you got more toe out by now. Hopefully there's enough adjustment on the tie rod where it threads into the rack to get what you need. Swinging a hammer in there is a challenge too.....

    Some of our number have replaced the MC securing bolts with Allen-head bolts of a slightly larger diameter, which seems a good idea to me. I reckon the MC piston free-play adjustment is the one really nasty thing on a 4CV/Dauphine/R8 etc, followed closely by the steering flexor when it hasn't been touched for 20 years, the banjo union at the end and the MC bolts themselves.

    At least you are making progress, if frustratingly. May it all come good quickly!
    JohnW

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  13. #38
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    I had the foresight to put a big blob of Araldite on the heads of the bolts for the MC when the car was on a rotisserie. Even Blind Freddy could see they were a nightmare to get at.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    I had the foresight to put a big blob of Araldite on the heads of the bolts for the MC when the car was on a rotisserie. Even Blind Freddy could see they were a nightmare to get at.
    A set of the old, really nice small Sidchrome ring and open end spanners do quite nicely. Once you have had them off once, and cleaned up the threads, it goes more easily. But you know that...
    JohnW

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  15. #40
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    Default Dauphine Steering Rack Mounts Adjustment Tool

    IMG_2460.JPGIMG_2461.JPGIMG_2462.JPG


    You won't find this one in the back of the workshop manual.

    Muscle power was only just enough.

    If the wheels had not been beautifully parallel after I re-installed the rack , my next step try again but with a jack.

    Carefully.
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  16. #41
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    Just another stab at something else to check, possibly already done. The steering arm is a tapered and keyed fit into the stub axle carrier, it may be worth checking the relative measurements of the arm to the carrier on each side. Just to see if the impact has tweaked one of the arms.
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  17. #42
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    I find that by using Allen key type bolts to secure the master cylinder, which I upgrade to 8mm rather than the original 6mm, that the bolts are Ok to remove with a longish extension. The new bolts are of course well lubed for future removal. The original bolts I find are usually easier to break off rather than undo them after 40 years of water and brake fluid attacking them.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    IMG_2460.JPGIMG_2461.JPGIMG_2462.JPG


    You won't find this one in the back of the workshop manual.

    Muscle power was only just enough.

    If the wheels had not been beautifully parallel after I re-installed the rack , my next step try again but with a jack.

    Carefully.
    Much better than a hammer. Now for the brakes eh?
    JohnW

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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Much better than a hammer. Now for the brakes eh?
    Correctomundo!

    I'm more than a bit pissed TBH

    If not for the MC fiasco, I would have obtained an online unreg vehicle permit from VicRoads & be test driving it.

    AND, I'm none too happy them saying e.g. "OK let's put a bigger cup in & try that". What if the new one is too small? I'm reluctant to do yet another MC out/in dance until I know everything is kosher. In hindsight a new unit from Europe would have been the go. This episode has shaken my faith in SS sleeving which I believed is the preferred option for a vehicle that is only used sporadically.

    Cosmetically, the very last thing to do is install the decorative aluminium strips along the belt line & sills.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

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  20. #45
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    I've had resleeved MCs for decades in the 4CV and R8. Probably both done by Power Brakes in Adelaide and bronze not SS. The only trouble I've ever had is of my making, when using a cup just slightly too large, and then the piston won't retract properly.

    I've no experience with the new ones you can buy, for example from Argentina, or which internal diameter they have used. They might be just fine.
    JohnW

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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Just another stab at something else to check, possibly already done. The steering arm is a tapered and keyed fit into the stub axle carrier, it may be worth checking the relative measurements of the arm to the carrier on each side. Just to see if the impact has tweaked one of the arms.
    Sorry Simon I missed this post.

    When I got the car 5 years ago, I trailered it to a recommended firm that local panel shops send their badly mangled specimens to have their front ends sorted out.

    They charged me $50 and told me the stub axle was bent.

    I got 2 spares with the car so I changed it & it mad zero difference.

    In hindsight THAT was the time to investigate further
    Simon likes this.
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  22. #47
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    Default Brakes Sorted

    The new master cylinder arrived and has been installed.

    A rock hard pedal with about 20mm of pedal movement with the stretched pushrod set at the minimum length and all flex hoses clamped


    Now to adjust the pushrod to get the factory 5mm free play.

    IDK where that leaves me re stainless steel sleeves!

    Looking ahead, if the cylinder CAN be replaced I will buy a new one.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  23. #48
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    George, did the gear knob arrive..?

  24. #49
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    Yes thanks Graham.

    It would have been a shame to have had an original, pristine 40,000 mile interior with a gear knob sans the Renault crown emblem!
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  25. #50
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    Default Tools to Set M/Cyl Pushrod Length

    IMG_2480.JPG


    Two U-shaped spanners; 1x12mm & 1x14mm

    A thin short 14mm OE spanner to hold the 14mm section of the pushrod while you tighten the 12mm lock nut
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

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